Tim Sweeney Interview Pt 3
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my 2 cents: fu(k you epic.
(i know its a stereotypical response now. But that truthfully sums up the argument on my end)
lol. also a stereotypical response (see mah sig)
Don't bypass the censor.
To all: Make a point if you will, but bashing is really not necessary.
The punchline is Epic is rolling in unfathomable amounts of cash while 500 PC gamers are pissed. Like they give a f**k.
How dare a commercial company make decisions that will increase their profit and future existence.
Thats debatable elmuerte, so I guess either way we have to wait to find out what happens. What Im wondering is since Epic has expanded alot, do they really need to expand more to increase profit or just knuckle down and get this two team thing sorted. Not only that but perhaps delivering quality of the caliber we are used to from Epic, Im sure there was a time when the bugs that UT3 and Gears of War got released with would have held back release.
Its obvious they have a strong position in the middleware market so perhaps thats driving their decision more than game development. Many people have accused iD of making tech demo's not games over the years so Im sure there have been people who said the same about Epic. Now they have a chance to really push forward on the games side of thing with UE3 tech, Im just wondering if the difference between this generation and the next generation in consoles is going to be as large a factor as it was between last generation and this generation.
Thats surely going to affect sales if people can barely see the difference between the two so I really think its going to be the gameplay that sells next generation not the graphics
Its obvious they have a strong position in the middleware market so perhaps thats driving their decision more than game development. Many people have accused iD of making tech demo's not games over the years so Im sure there have been people who said the same about Epic. Now they have a chance to really push forward on the games side of thing with UE3 tech, Im just wondering if the difference between this generation and the next generation in consoles is going to be as large a factor as it was between last generation and this generation.
Thats surely going to affect sales if people can barely see the difference between the two so I really think its going to be the gameplay that sells next generation not the graphics
I don't think anyone's pissed about that. People generally understand business is business.
However, people don't like to be lied to, and Epic is full of liars. "PC gamers are our bread and butter" and "UT3 will be released when it's done" are now quotes of epic failure and betrayal.
People around here were genuinely excited about UT3, but Epic lied on multiple fronts (campaign, Warfare, scalability, etc.) and turned out a turd. I don't think people are wrong to bitch about it. They're only doing it here because Epic would delete their posts over on their own forums -- a forum full of negative threads is a deterrent to future sales.
It's a lose-lose situation for anyone dissatisfied with UT3.
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Meh. The world is on big lie, politicians: nothing but lies, lawyers: nothing but lies, commercials: nothing but lies, your rights: nothing but lies.
Or at least, that;s one way to look at it. You could also see it like half truths.
One thing people continuously fail to realize is that Epic is no longer a simple game studio. They develop middleware (UnrealEngine) and games (UT3, GoW, ...). The middleware division has to cater their customer demand, the customers are the engine licensees, the other game developers. If the other game developers are mainly going to focus on console game development, the Epic needs to focus on making UnrealEngine better for consoles. The part of Epic that create games does not have to cater customers, because there are no customers yet. It has a target audience, and Epic will try to create a game that will turn their target audience into their customers. Nobody is forcing you do buy their new game.
Also, did you ever realize that your definition of "finished" it completely different from Epic's definition of "finished". Most people who claim UT3 was unfishing are bitching about non-game elements that are not present (lack of menu options, ...). I haven't heard anyway that the actual game wasn't finished. Epic got flamed with UT2003 and UT2004 that it wasn't as the original UT. With UT3 Epic tried to make the gameplay more like UT3, but actually finish the gameplay. Yes, I'm claiming the gameplay of the original UT was unfinished. They didn't spend as much time on polishing the maps, game types and weapons as they did with UT3. You can simply see that from the maps included with the original UT, about half of them are seriously unbalanced.
Also, nobody from Epic ever said they will abandon the PC game market. Yes, various Epic employees have outed their frustration with the PC game market compared to the console market. That doesn't mean you will never see a PC game. And even if Epic doesn't create a PC game in the next 10 years. So ****ing what, it's not like they are obligated. If they decided that they can't make a profitable PC game, then why should they? It's just like what Mike Capps said in an interview a while ago, he would love to make a text adventure (iirc), but they simply can not make a profit from that.
And with the recent interview with Tim. People all make weird conclusions from that. There is no UE4 yet, there is only Tim who is thinking about it and what development decisions to make. He said that they are going to focus on next gen consoles from the design of UE4. That doesn't mean UE4 won't run on PCs. It means that for the development of the architecture of UE4 they are going to focus on the technology that is going to be available in the next gen consoles. If the PS4 is going to feature a 64 core setup with general purpose processors all over the place and no "classic" GPU. Then they will need to develop UE4 in such a way that it can take full advantage for that. Consoles are absolutely not flexible as PCs are. A program developed to take into account a 64 core machine can also run on a machine that has only 4 cores (but offers the same processing power). But it doesn't work the other way around. It's easier to adapt an engine developed with the next gen consoles in mind to run on a PC than the other way around. PCs will not change as much as the next gen console will in the same timeframe.
PS, negative people are usually much more vocal than the rest. Also, it's usually the same small group that keeps bitching over and over again. And they are often simply repeating others.
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A band I like made a couple of great albums, their 3rd was a bit watered down for the pop market and their last was clearly aimed at chart success...I'd like them to make albums like they used to but thats the way it goes with career developement..if you get good enough to be really successful invariably you will follow that path. Some of the fans on their board get way over the top about their selling out, but the thing is..I still like the music they make, even if it doesn't excite me like it used to.
If that is true elmuerte why even bring it up? That sounds like the way things have always worked somewhat to me, so what are Mr Sweenys motivations behind making a that comment.
Thats what gets me, like UC was obviously a console game then ported to PC in 2k3. Why all of a sudden does Epic need to reinforce they are aiming at consoles other than following the console hype wagon? Infact since the xbox has hit the market Epic has be concentrating on console development of their engine, look at UC2 and Gears.
Its an obvious descision to support consoles if you are making an engine especially one with the flexability of the UE but just because consoles are profitable now doesnt mean they will be 10 years from now. Infact I would go so far to say that the success of the current consoles is due to the abundance of other platform developers that moved over to 360 and PS3. People were buying PC's and Mac's to play their marathon's, system shocks, quakes, dooms and Unreals, now you can get all that on console so why would you bother with more than an intergrated graphics?
My concern isnt that Epic will stop making PC games, its they will stop making them for the wrong reasons. Im just reading that as more of a "yes Epic is moving towards console with their games even more" when the thing of it is, their console games arnt the ones suffering. Gears was a huge success on 360 and its obvious PS3 leads in the UT3 sales, why do you think that is though? Are PC gamers being too picky because they want a quality game without the bugs? So much for certification is my words, its all hype!
I could care less if its a port as long as its a ****en great game and works without ini tweaks or deleting saved games. Hell just give me an emulator and be done with it, I got the cash here in my pocket, guess no one wants it.
Thats what gets me, like UC was obviously a console game then ported to PC in 2k3. Why all of a sudden does Epic need to reinforce they are aiming at consoles other than following the console hype wagon? Infact since the xbox has hit the market Epic has be concentrating on console development of their engine, look at UC2 and Gears.
Its an obvious descision to support consoles if you are making an engine especially one with the flexability of the UE but just because consoles are profitable now doesnt mean they will be 10 years from now. Infact I would go so far to say that the success of the current consoles is due to the abundance of other platform developers that moved over to 360 and PS3. People were buying PC's and Mac's to play their marathon's, system shocks, quakes, dooms and Unreals, now you can get all that on console so why would you bother with more than an intergrated graphics?
My concern isnt that Epic will stop making PC games, its they will stop making them for the wrong reasons. Im just reading that as more of a "yes Epic is moving towards console with their games even more" when the thing of it is, their console games arnt the ones suffering. Gears was a huge success on 360 and its obvious PS3 leads in the UT3 sales, why do you think that is though? Are PC gamers being too picky because they want a quality game without the bugs? So much for certification is my words, its all hype!
I could care less if its a port as long as its a ****en great game and works without ini tweaks or deleting saved games. Hell just give me an emulator and be done with it, I got the cash here in my pocket, guess no one wants it.
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No, that's only true with most of them. The great ones are often willing to lead, rather than follow. No matter the cost - because making a quality product that they believe in, came before the almighty dollar. Also because they realize that if you do follow that path, the profits can still come. You just have to have the talent and the balls to go that route. Obvious examples include Dylan, Zappa, Bowie, and so on.
Some folks apparently want you to believe that simply being a company that is out to make profits, somehow justifies releasing sub par products, and misleading your loyal customer base. Don't fall for it.
There is more than one way to chase profits.
He said it to make clear that UE4 will not be for the current generation of consoles. Also, UE2 wasn't multi system, there was a specific XBox port. UE3's focus was on create a single multi system engine. And UE4 will continue to be a single multi system, but for its design they will focus (not "target") on the next consoles.
Error! Missing definition for "console game"
What console hype? You are aware that before PC Gaming actually existed there were only consoles?
What are the wrong and right reasons to stop making PC games?
There is no future in console gaming and there is also no future in PC gaming. The future is in the combination. In 10 years people will sit in front of their "personal console" and browse the internet, watch TV/Movies, play games, order food. all that without leaving their seat.
The wrong reason Im hinting at here is that in releasing buggy games the sales are suffering on PC, its not that PC isnt as profitable as it has been, its been proven the PC gaming market continues to expand.
UC being a game on a console only perhaps? Infact if any game can run on PC there is only such a thing as a PC to console port isnt there not the other way around.
What I would be wondering is what is a multi-platform game and do we need them?
What console hype, you are kidding right? Like ummz say zomg Sony xgames, MS xgames and all the logo's n **** flying all over the joint. When ever a game on console gets any kind of recognition BeyondUnreal is blanketed with news.
So I could assume that the bugs present in Epic's UE3 games on PC are because of this multi-platform focus where in the past when there was a seperate build for PC they were more stable?
What is a console game though? I asked that question awhile back, honestly Im more for platform indepedance than anything. I want to see a future when you ask for a game by its name not by its platform!
I already watch TV/Movies on my foxtel console, I can order them from an online box office or pay per view, I can play games as well (mind you they have crappy intergrated graphics) so why isnt Epic bitching about intergrated in those "consoles"? Hell my local woolies has better consoles than the wii
What the hell do I even need a DVD player for when Im streaming DVD quality video on top of the fact I have adsl2 and a decent connection?
I could care less about leaving my seat, Im not a couch potatoe, I like to sit in the study infront of my PC sometimes when I feel like "interacting" and in the lounge when I dont want to be disturbed and just chill, hence "lounge" room.
Also why the hell does everyone get defensive when I hint at consoles not being "the future of mankind"? Is it that hard to believe that in the future there will be one big box per house and that big box will be one mega PC server which handles all the medial tasks many consoles would have been assigned to.
UC being a game on a console only perhaps? Infact if any game can run on PC there is only such a thing as a PC to console port isnt there not the other way around.
What I would be wondering is what is a multi-platform game and do we need them?
What console hype, you are kidding right? Like ummz say zomg Sony xgames, MS xgames and all the logo's n **** flying all over the joint. When ever a game on console gets any kind of recognition BeyondUnreal is blanketed with news.
So I could assume that the bugs present in Epic's UE3 games on PC are because of this multi-platform focus where in the past when there was a seperate build for PC they were more stable?
What is a console game though? I asked that question awhile back, honestly Im more for platform indepedance than anything. I want to see a future when you ask for a game by its name not by its platform!
I already watch TV/Movies on my foxtel console, I can order them from an online box office or pay per view, I can play games as well (mind you they have crappy intergrated graphics) so why isnt Epic bitching about intergrated in those "consoles"? Hell my local woolies has better consoles than the wii
What the hell do I even need a DVD player for when Im streaming DVD quality video on top of the fact I have adsl2 and a decent connection?
I could care less about leaving my seat, Im not a couch potatoe, I like to sit in the study infront of my PC sometimes when I feel like "interacting" and in the lounge when I dont want to be disturbed and just chill, hence "lounge" room.
Also why the hell does everyone get defensive when I hint at consoles not being "the future of mankind"? Is it that hard to believe that in the future there will be one big box per house and that big box will be one mega PC server which handles all the medial tasks many consoles would have been assigned to.
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pc-games have always been and will continue to be buggy at release.
In fact I haven't seen a single pc-game that didn't need a patch or two after release.
I've seen plenty that had patches for critical game-destroying bugs available at release ...
ie : it's not something that 'happened' recently, although it probably is more apparent because of the internet.
it does continue to expand ... except it is doing it into the none-hardcore gaming direction that used to be the major audience for pc-games.
Anyways ... I think it makes perfect sense for Epic (or any other engine-developer) to focus on what is a stable platform instead of one that's about as stable as jelly. And didn't another company (I'd swear it was Id software) use the Apple Macintosh as a default platform for initial development because it did provide a solid/predictable environment ?
I can't remember anyone screaming "OMG they're abandoning Windows ..."-comments ...
Both movies/Hollywood, tv, books and the music-industry have proven that the majority of the consumers actually like mediocre instantly forgetable content they release, so why should the game-industry be any different ?
Heck ... even the mod-teams and mappers show that creativity is not appreciated by anyone and that mediocre crap gets them downloads.
// Console-game : definition
a game that just works out-of-the-box ...
// pc-game : definition
a game that needs to be patched and tweaked to heck and back before it works
Well Im not screaming about epic abandoning anything, I think people just really dont look into what Im saying most of the time!
PC games have been buggy but reviewers used to be harsh on bugs so there are alot of PC games out there which are very stable and playable from the retail install and they still recieved plenty of patches after that.
Your definition sucks btw and just follows the same sterotypes everyone else likes to bring up from one side or the other. Ive seen buggy console and PC games, Ive also seen very stable console and PC games. Its about a level of quality in games that Epic should be trying to raise, not just sitting where they are because it sells on consoles.
If they can make that leap it'll be beneficial to all platforms and thats what I want to see from Epic. I could care less that they are concentrating on consoles for UE4, I would just like to know that Epic is going to be pushing to make their technology stable before releasing it. Gears wasnt 100% at release either there were problems with the game and support for various this and thats.
PC's can be stable which is why Mr Sweeny said they switched to work stations now, I mean really if there is that big of a problem with stability in PC's I wouldnt have had this install running for say oh a year and a half easy now. Thats with hardware changes and driver updates, there will always be problems when adopting new hardware, look at the 360 and their warranty being extended for eg.
There is a grey area in life, if you come there look me up
PC games have been buggy but reviewers used to be harsh on bugs so there are alot of PC games out there which are very stable and playable from the retail install and they still recieved plenty of patches after that.
Your definition sucks btw and just follows the same sterotypes everyone else likes to bring up from one side or the other. Ive seen buggy console and PC games, Ive also seen very stable console and PC games. Its about a level of quality in games that Epic should be trying to raise, not just sitting where they are because it sells on consoles.
If they can make that leap it'll be beneficial to all platforms and thats what I want to see from Epic. I could care less that they are concentrating on consoles for UE4, I would just like to know that Epic is going to be pushing to make their technology stable before releasing it. Gears wasnt 100% at release either there were problems with the game and support for various this and thats.
PC's can be stable which is why Mr Sweeny said they switched to work stations now, I mean really if there is that big of a problem with stability in PC's I wouldnt have had this install running for say oh a year and a half easy now. Thats with hardware changes and driver updates, there will always be problems when adopting new hardware, look at the 360 and their warranty being extended for eg.
There is a grey area in life, if you come there look me up
There are more than enough console games with bugs. And it used to be "sucks to be you, but we can't fix it". Also console games were not as complex as PC games back in the day.
Software (be it console or PC) will contain more bugs when it becomes more complex. Also a lot of problems with PC software are caused by the end user.
And Doom 3 was not nearly as scary as they said it would be, actually is was boring and repetitive. But you don't see me burning an iD Software effigy.
Software (be it console or PC) will contain more bugs when it becomes more complex. Also a lot of problems with PC software are caused by the end user.
He's right though, the campaign is not as good as they told us it would be.
And Doom 3 was not nearly as scary as they said it would be, actually is was boring and repetitive. But you don't see me burning an iD Software effigy.
Yeah totally, I can fully agree with this as I have seen it on more than one occasion when someone does something stupid and stuffs up their own gear. Problem with some PC's is it is too easy for some people to stuff things up if they dont know what they are doing on the flipside sometimes there isnt enough options for people who want them.
It is funny to see someone slam a mouse or throw a controller though, kick a box, hit the power button really hard on a console and so on. I just kinda laugh to myself thinking welp, Im not gonna say anything because it'll just be another I told you so. Some people just dont respect their gear PC or console and its such a shame these silly people dont fess up when something isnt working, instead blaming whoever is closest.
I guess the problem with bugs will stay but it does make you wonder whos responsible, I see alot of oh update your drivers since people think they are the prime candidates but its very rare Ive actually had that work. Infact Ive had more things break from using dodgy drivers than issues theyve fixed. I do kinda make a point of sticking just alittle behind the latest and greatest tech though so perhaps thats why I enjoy a level of stability and comfort others dont have.
Just from reading previews on hardware I know it takes alittle while after its released for the drivers to truely show the hardwares potential, I guess its similar to games with patches. Im just wondering though if games took just alittle step back from the very forefront if they would be more stable on PC's by a factor of 10 or more. Im not saying developers shouldnt try to harness those features but just to keep mindful that if its not ready then you can lose customers.
Sure it might not have been your problem directly but if you knew the software (drivers, API etc) you were using wasnt stable enough then there is really no excuse.
I do agree with Mr Sweeny on alot of points though, I just have alittle bit of a different view on things that I thought people should consider