Steve Polge about UT3 Expansion Pack

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T2A`

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Jan 10, 2004
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despite its lack of polish, broken stuff and missing features/options UT3 is still the best in the series...
This point of view is one I don't understand.

"Despite being clearly inferior to previous products for reasons X, Y, and Z (and then wrapping around into the start of the alphabet... twice) and having no online player support, it's still the best."

How? How is this possible? Is it a matter of applying possibilities as if they were reality?

"If UT3 didn't suck it would be the best of the series."

That makes a little more sense. I think. D:
 

Leo(T.C.K.)

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
May 14, 2006
4,794
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No, it isn't that simple...so ok you only count that game sucks when it has some problems(bugs), etc?

There doesn't matter if it's inferior, it isn't inferior on its own......
I guess people say that to side with these who say game suck, but they still want to prove that game doesn't suck.

Who needs polish if the game would be trash then?

UT3 doesn't suck in gameplay and hardly in anything else, in what it "sucks" are some certain problems which can only be considered bad on the game(which is the only point where the people who say it suck can be true, that's why people say it), that doesn't mean the whole product will suck....
I think you'll better fit some horrid sites like somethingawful who have absolutelly no idea what makes game best on its own and who bash everything. I would be not surprised if you belong to them...

So you say because original Unreal wasn't really polished in beginning, that it sucked? No, it didn't, it's one of the best games ever created.
And UT3 is pretty fun at multiplayer if it wasn't for these who ruin the game(but these can be found in every games, the reason you can find them more is because the game didn't sell and wasn't properly advertised), so sometimes is better to play offline.
People believe only hypers, numbers of people playing online and stupid reviews which is majority of today sites or magazines...I mean good old times when there weren't these n00bs reviewing games and when there were real gamers.
 

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
4,042
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look man, the ut3 krall DO NOT look like the unreal krall.

That doesn't make them any better or worse. I can accept they are krall, just like i could accept the 2k4 skaarj were skaarj. I can accept they are krall, but they are nothing like the krall from unreal.

And i don't believe this is ut3's biggest problem either. It's just something to debate about on the side.

True, they don't look like Unreal's Krall.
http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/Krall
Go in and compare.

As for Krall, Necris tinkering perhaps? These aren't the same primitive creatures the Skaarj assimilated for simple guard duty back in Unreal. These Krall are used to crush, kill and destroy. The top Necris generals (Akasha, Loque) directly commanded them. Of course, they'll be using the finest they can get.

+1! Strange how people don't understand that. Necris command Krall; Necris are unread; Krall are skeletal; Krall are undead; Krall are Krall just undead! Like I've said, you can't say a Black Dragon is a Bone Black Dragon. That's just not true:
blackdragon.gif
bonedragon.gif
 

Bishop F Gantry

New Member
Aug 18, 2004
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Heard of evolution? :p

You're right, god forbid I could think that after mor than 100 years, they could be different.

I'm assuming that, like the Skaarj, there are many different "breeds" of Krall. Also, lizards and such evolve at a much faster rate than other species, add some sci-fi-ness and maybe some Necris tinkering, and why couldn't they look and act like they do currently?

What you're arguing is purely semantics. You don't like the Krall's design not because they don't look like the Krall from Unreal 1 but because you don't like the design, either that or you simply refuse to believe there is ANY possible explanation, when plenty of possible explanations are there. They simply don't look that different from Unreal 1 Krall.

This makes no sense.

Considering the amount of content in UT3 that is based on previous Unreal games, I hardly think the one single change you are talking about will have any effect on the universe.

Sorry, but this again just reiterates to me your lack of understanding of the Unreal universe all around.

The gameplay doesn't have anything to do with the Krall model. That's completely silly.

Additionally, the "consistency" in this game, in terms of what you are talking about, has nothing to do with why people don't play it. Nobody is coming on here starting threads like "I stopped playing UT3 because the Krall look different than I thought they would coming from Unreal." They are making threads like "Go back to UT200x movement/gameplay" (which nobody but UT200x spazboys want) or "why does Gamespy suck so bad" or "who decided to have virtually no avril ammo around".

Sorry, you're just not making a point that I can agree with.


Evolution at best takes a couple of thousands of years to happen, heavy evolutions such as growing extra sets of fingers and toes your looking into tens of thousands of years for it to be feasible...

Cultural changes perhaps at best but dosent explain gross mutations and regressing to a stone age mentality...

Do you have any evidence of the Necris tinkering with the Krall, given that Necris tinkering with stuff usually means things looking emo goth undead something the Krall dont look like?

Theres no explanation for the Kralls divergence in apperance and your best idea so far is make **** up... I apoplogize if i broke any forum rules

This is far from the only change, far from being the only variable thats changed. even if its something as small and silly as the apperance of the Krall the problem still persists even if its just on a small scale or a larger scale you still have the same issue, how much Epic changes the franchise or my preffered analogy "trying to reinvent the wheel"

The Krall model has everything to do with Gameplay the only diffrence is the scale of the problem. Id bet my hat on that if you ask most fans of Unreal they want a game thats similar to the Unreal title they where first introduced to while Epic goes against this and attempts to reinvent the wheel. Wheter its a nuisance like the Krall or something serious like gameplay the problem persists the only diffrence is the scale of it...

I want Krall to look like Krall
UT2X fan wants UT200x gameplay

Same desire, same problem quite irrrelevant whatever scale the issue might be Epic works against their customers...
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
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This point of view is one I don't understand.

"Despite being clearly inferior to previous products for reasons X, Y, and Z (and then wrapping around into the start of the alphabet... twice) and having no online player support, it's still the best."

How? How is this possible? Is it a matter of applying possibilities as if they were reality?

"If UT3 didn't suck it would be the best of the series."

That makes a little more sense. I think. D:
How does your point of view make any more sense here? "If people don't play a game it's inferior to other games". Some of the most entertaining games out there are only played by a small fraction of people, does that make them worse games?

Most people who say UT3 is the best game in the series are looking at the one thing UT3 does right and the only thing you can really rate a game based on: Gameplay. If you don't like the gameplay, that's your prerogative, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that the reason the majority of people aren't playing UT3 has nothing to do with the gameplay at all.
Evolution at best takes a couple of thousands of years to happen, heavy evolutions such as growing extra sets of fingers and toes your looking into tens of thousands of years for it to be feasible...
....for human beings :p

You're talking about an alien race of which you know virtually nothing of the history of, and as such, how can you assume to know how long evolution takes for them?
Do you have any evidence of the Necris tinkering with the Krall, given that Necris tinkering with stuff usually means things looking emo goth undead something the Krall dont look like?
Necris tinkering doesn't imply necrification.
Theres no explanation for the Kralls divergence in apperance and your best idea so far is make **** up
You're right. However, I'm not giving you definite explanations (or even trying to). I'm simply pointing out that the alterations from Unreal 1 to UT3 are completely feasible, there are plenty of explanations. It's in their best interest to leave as many holes as possible because it removes the chance for having to retcon a ton of data in later games if they don't like a particular plot element or use it in a different way later.
This is far from the only change, far from being the only variable thats changed. even if its something as small and silly as the apperance of the Krall the problem still persists even if its just on a small scale or a larger scale you still have the same issue, how much Epic changes the franchise or my preffered analogy "trying to reinvent the wheel"

The Krall model has everything to do with Gameplay the only diffrence is the scale of the problem. Id bet my hat on that if you ask most fans of Unreal they want a game thats similar to the Unreal title they where first introduced to while Epic goes against this and attempts to reinvent the wheel. Wheter its a nuisance like the Krall or something serious like gameplay the problem persists the only diffrence is the scale of it...
And so, by your judgement, UT itself is possibly the worst game in the series? Seeing as it had virtually nothing in common with Unreal, is that a correct assessment of your above point?

The fact is, you are trying to take something like "I don't like this design" and morph it into something that explains a much greater problem. People like UT3's gameplay just fine, it's everything else you have to deal with in the game that put people off of it.
I want Krall to look like Krall
UT2X fan wants UT200x gameplay

Same desire, same problem quite irrrelevant whatever scale the issue might be Epic works against their customers...
So you're saying that Epic should listen to everyone and not make the game the way they want to make it? If UT3 had had UT200x gameplay, many people (myself included) would have simply abandoned the series altogether.

I really don't think you understand what Epic's customers want, nor why they changed back to the standard UT design instead of continuing on with a UT200x style game.
 

JohnDoe641

Killer Fools Pro
Staff member
Nov 8, 2000
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How does your point of view make any more sense here? "If people don't play a game it's inferior to other games". Some of the most entertaining games out there are only played by a small fraction of people, does that make them worse games?
Poop_Bruzz.

Most people who say UT3 is the best game in the series are looking at the one thing UT3 does right and the only thing you can really rate a game based on: Gameplay. If you don't like the gameplay, that's your prerogative, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that the reason the majority of people aren't playing UT3 has nothing to do with the gameplay at all.

....for human beings :p
Poop_Bruzz.

You're talking about an alien race of which you know virtually nothing of the history of, and as such, how can you assume to know how long evolution takes for them?

Necris tinkering doesn't imply
Poop_Bruzz.

necrification.
Poop_Bruzz!

You're right. However, I'm not giving you definite explanations (or even trying to). I'm simply pointing out that the alterations from Unreal 1 to UT3 are completely feasible, there are plenty of explanations. It's in their best interest to leave as many holes as possible because it removes the chance for having to retcon a ton of data in later games if they don't like a particular plot element or use it in a different way later.

And so, by your judgement, UT itself is possibly the worst game in the series? Seeing as it had virtually nothing in common with Unreal, is that a correct assessment of your above point?

The fact is, you are trying to take something like "I don't like this design" and morph it into something that explains a much greater problem. People like UT3's gameplay just fine, it's everything else you have to deal with in the game that put people off of it.

So you're saying that Epic should listen to everyone and not make the game the way they want to make it? If UT3 had had UT200x gameplay, many people (myself included) would have simply abandoned the series altogether.

I really don't think you understand what Epic's customers want, nor why they changed back to the standard UT design instead of continuing on with a UT200x style game.
Poop






Bruzz.
 

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
4,042
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Lithuania
How does your point of view make any more sense here? "If people don't play a game it's inferior to other games". Some of the most entertaining games out there are only played by a small fraction of people, does that make them worse games?

I really don't think you understand what Epic's customers want, nor why they changed back to the standard UT design instead of continuing on with a UT200x style game.

That's true. Say Unreal II and Unreal II XMP. Actually, I'm listening to their Game Over - Win music ATM :)

Actually, UT3 going to UT99 style isn't the best way to do it too. UT99 players won't play UT3 anyway as their PCs usually can't manage that and they have a game they like anyway, why would they switch? Then UT2004 players won't go there as well because you feel like a brick. So they should have continued the UT2004 style hoping to get more players, or, even better: create everything again from scratch! That's what we expect anyway - Unreal was initial, Unreal II was nothing like Unreal; UT99 was initial, UT2003 was nothing like UT99 not any of Unreals; why should UT3 be any different and create the same as it was earlier? They could, for example, make movement like this: Walldodge, no double jump, mantling, dodging, prone. That would be unique and interesting.
 

LG1X

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Aug 16, 2008
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So you're saying that Epic should listen to everyone and not make the game the way they want to make it? If UT3 had had UT200x gameplay, many people (myself included) would have simply abandoned the series altogether.

Does that really matter though with a 24 player count base as it is. Every time I start UT3 up at night, all ctf, dm, and tdm servers are frequently empty. All I know is that UT2K4 was extremely populated back in its prime with tons of clans, players, and tournaments. UT3 is the complete opposite, it never took off in the first place, it seemed dead from release on. I remember back when I played the beta demo how players were bashing the game and I actually frowned upon that and supported the game despite the complete lack of features and different movement/hitscan in hopes that the final release of the game would contain the missing content that was apparent in the demo, but infact it didn't.

I've never seen a game attempt to revive itself so many times then die again. I think it has died about 3 times over so far. The gameplay of UT3 is obviously similar to the old UT99's but of course players of UT99 tried out UT3 and gagged, then went back to UT99 that not only ran better for them, but had all the features and mods anyone could ever want as a PC user. Yeah a couple of UT99'ers stuck with UT3, but just a couple.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
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Feb 3, 2000
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I doubt that there are that many people who tries UT3 and went back to UT. The fact of the matter is, there are plenty of games out right now that don't have the problems UT3 had. It also was released against strong competition like TF2 and CoD4. Even if the game had turned out near perfectly, it's unlikely it would have gathered together huge numbers of people we all wanted it to. It needed to come out either 6 months earlier or 6 months later.

Seriously, think about it. Do you think more people would be playing UT3 if all you did was change the movement style and everything from the UI to the dedicated server package were in the same shape they are today? No. And it would have pissed are far more people who are at least hopeful for the expansion/sequel to UT3 as opposed to just shutting them right out immediately.

The fact that we are all here talking about this confirms that people still care about the series to a certain degree, so the game didn't really destroy anything, it more just put it in hibernation even further than it already was.
 

rAt.8^].bAg

Don't eff wid Gkublok
Aug 10, 2008
435
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Does that really matter though with a 24 player count base as it is. Every time I start UT3 up at night, all ctf, dm, and tdm servers are frequently empty. All I know is that UT2K4 was extremely populated back in its prime with tons of clans, players, and tournaments. UT3 is the complete opposite, it never took off in the first place, it seemed dead from release on.

Exactly. It's clear that even with 2k4's problems, Epic had a winner on their hands with 2k4, but then changed it with UT3. All along the way the UT series has been very schizophrenic. Seems that 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' should be the guide, but then that would require some kind of logic to rule at Epic.


I remember back when I played the beta demo how players were bashing the game and I actually frowned upon that and supported the game despite the complete lack of features and different movement/hitscan in hopes that the final release of the game would contain the missing content that was apparent in the demo, but infact it didn't.

Yep, the demo was a POS and it was always, "Oh...they'll fix everything when the retail vers hits, just don'tchoo worry none!...:B" - and sure enough we got punkt. :mad:


I've never seen a game attempt to revive itself so many times then die again. I think it has died about 3 times over so far. The gameplay of UT3 is obviously similar to the old UT99's but of course players of UT99 tried out UT3 and gagged, then went back to UT99 that not only ran better for them, but had all the features and mods anyone could ever want as a PC user. Yeah a couple of UT99'ers stuck with UT3, but just a couple.

When GOTY first hit I played the hell out of it and loved it. Then with 2k3 & 4, I was annoyed with the floaty-ness and dodging, but I adjusted and really came to love those. Unreal II was fun but too damned narrow and short. Then UT3 comes along and just pisses me off all over again.

Of course with any new title, you need to add something new or keep things interesting somehow, but U/UT has been all over the map. I think that's been a serious mistake.
 
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FuLLBLeeD

fart
Jan 23, 2008
946
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awwsmack.org
This point of view is one I don't understand.

"Despite being clearly inferior to previous products for reasons X, Y, and Z (and then wrapping around into the start of the alphabet... twice) and having no online player support, it's still the best."

How? How is this possible? Is it a matter of applying possibilities as if they were reality?

"If UT3 didn't suck it would be the best of the series."

That makes a little more sense. I think. D:

You realize most people here like UT3's gameplay, right?

What we should be worrying about is Midway going under. What does this mean for the expansion?
 
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rAt.8^].bAg

Don't eff wid Gkublok
Aug 10, 2008
435
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Here I am.

And there may be more that accompanied me than you may want to believe.

Also true I'll bet, and I'm one of them, except I've played 2k4 so much I'm worn out on it so I play UT3 just to keep from going insane. Then UT3 makes me insane!!

All you gotta do is check the 2k4 servers right now, then look at the UT3 servers. Not even close.
 

brdempsey69

Original UT Owns !!
Jun 19, 2003
362
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rAt.8^].bAg;2222827 said:
All you gotta do is check the 2k4 servers right now, then look at the UT3 servers. Not even close.

Same thing with original UT, although lots of them are running mods. Still a vanilla game can be found if you look hard enough.

UT3 expansion pack is the last hope for UT3. If they blow it -- R.I.P UT3.

It'll either resurrect it from the grave or be the final nail in the coffin -- no in between.
 
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rAt.8^].bAg

Don't eff wid Gkublok
Aug 10, 2008
435
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^ Yep, and if they bork it, I'll be the 1st one :trans: to Epic HQ and doing this:



:instagib::minigun::rl: ..."C'mon u phuckas and take yer abuse!!!!..'
 

TheIronKnuckle

What the hell is this "ballin" thing?
well krall dont look like krall, necris dont look like necris and lauren... well she kinda looks similar and malcom and xan are on a cruise somewhere together. who cares? as long as the major update/expansion does for UT3 what 2k4 did for UT2003 :)

despite its lack of polish, broken stuff and missing features/options UT3 is still the best in the series...

exacty! It's all a load of crap that shouldn't have played out the way it played out. But who cares! UT3 has bigger things to worry about.

But uhh.... no, ut99 is the best.
 

UBerserker

old EPIC GAMES
Jan 20, 2008
4,798
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rAt.8^].bAg;2222827 said:
All you gotta do is check the 2k4 servers right now, then look at the UT3 servers. Not even close.

Obviously, when UT2k4's servers can count on the bots' presence. UT3 should do the same so it gets more players :p
 

Benfica

European Redneck
Feb 6, 2006
2,004
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So you're saying that Epic should listen to everyone and not make the game the way they want to make it? If UT3 had had UT200x gameplay, many people (myself included) would have simply abandoned the series altogether.

I really don't think you understand what Epic's customers want, nor why they changed back to the standard UT design instead of continuing on with a UT200x style game.
Nobody wants UT2004 style game! People are thinking about:
- Game in such a way that is pleasant to play by those people
- Ways to make UT much more popular , so that the series has a future.

Short sighted people that only see UT99 and UT2004 without figuring out the multiple possibilities in between that don't collide or are still good for everyone, are being selfish by putting part of the community away from the series and ****ing up the future of UT.

You live on the lala land if you think Epic is looking forward to do UT4. Besides the multiple problems that they believe that it has (piracy, troubleshooting, smaller market...), IMHO they don't want to continue to deal with people that:
- Pay UT99 once, play and have fun for 4 years and then destroy the UT2003release because the gameplay is broken, they would suck at it or whatever reason.
- Force them to modify the game so that it's a clone of the older one, and makes them lose sales from the newer players.
- Make now the other part of the community complain or give up of the game.
- Now that the gameplay is right, complains about everything else on the planet Earth!

Write this on a post-it and attach it to your monitor: This is the last chance we have to do whatever it takes to make the game flexible enough to be popular, and unite the community instead of dividing it! To older and newer players, of any skill, platform, any gaming preference

I know you think you are defending your best interests. However, I'd make sure by asking Epic. I will try to do the best I know: 1)defend ways that IMHO will bring UT2004 and more new players to UT3; 2) Desperately try to give Epic Games solid reasons (not rhetoric, or the usual "we've always been loyal fans" BS) to be confident about UT4 on the PC by 2011 or 2012. Even if it's a shytty console port from the XBox720!
 
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LG1X

New Member
Aug 16, 2008
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If there is another UT, it will be when unreal engine 4 releases, and expect it to be another multiplatform game if not console only. I honestly think UT should have stood as a PC franchise and UC as a console franchise along with GoW, although I wouldn't have minded seeing a UC on the PC.

Epic can either make UT the way they want or think of all the confusing player bases among the different UT's and make something new that both player bases can come to enjoy. They should have done that with UT3. Instead of turning off UT2K4 fans with UT3 gameplay, they could have implemented gameplay from both UT99 and UT2K4 in a smooth fashion.

I also want to see a UT with a completely new arsenal of guns, not just the same guns with new skins which has basically been the case for years now.
 

T2A`

I'm dead.
Jan 10, 2004
8,752
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Richmond, VA
You realize most people here like UT3's gameplay, right?
I realize that they want to like it. Whether or not they truly do is another concern. :p

However, my opinion still stands. For a game to be THE BEST EVAR I would think it'd need to provide a degree of fun that others do/have not.

What good is UT3's supposedly awesome gameplay if you hardly get a chance to enjoy it due to its lacking online presence or its terrible netcode or whatever else is inhibiting the fun? Certainly as far as fun derived from the title, UT3 has got to be the worst simply due to the lack of players and plethora of bugs, right?

And if it's provided the least fun, how can it be the best? :eek:

Maybe I'm unique in this viewpoint, but UT3 was never fun for me. While the gameplay may have been a step in the right direction, since it was less fun given all its other issues, I'd rather go play a less balanced game that offered more fun.

/shrug

As for Midway, if they go under completely before the expansion release, Epic will probably find another publisher. They've already got the extra content made; not releasing it would mean all that time invested for no monetary recompense.

At the very least it'll end up as paid-for DLC on the 360. :)
 
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