So what has happened to the modding community??

Personally, the reason why I stopped working on my mod is because I simply don't want to use the little free time I have making a mod for a multiplayer community that's so small. Perhaps in September I will restart production, for now however I simply have much more beneficial things that I need to do.

I tend to think part of teh reason why the modding community is apparently smaller is because modding the game is less accessible than it was in the old days.

In UT'99 you could change everything, skins, voicepacks, most people could bundle together a rudimentary map and even mutators in some cases, now it's not the case I don't think.
Skinning is nigh on impossible, creating entire player models IS possible but a far harsher mistress than in the days of old. Voicepacks are apparently entirely impossible which leaves the budding "modder" with only one angle to approach his new found desire... mapping. Now mapping is all well and good but we have even more issues in this area in so far as the UT community is an old, grizzled old gruff of grand experience, the standard is high and new comers will be daunted at best I believe.

I kind of feel that, what with the Honey trap that was Upaint in UT2k3/4 and the total lack of skinning available in UT3, that Epic have for some reason phased out one of the more accessible and desirable areas to make changes to the game. I think it's a bad trend to set. Skins were a small area a person could mod but an achievable goal, maps are grand concepts that take vast lengths of time to reach completion and even then might not be well recieved, I don't think i'd be wrong in suggesting that most potential mappers never complete their first map.

maybe it's just me, i could be wrong but i know i'd have never delved into mapping or gotten involved in the various modding groups out there over the past 3 games if it had not been for my original exploration of making my own skins.

T2A` said:

I still think UT3's gameplay is what pushed most of the players away. Gamers don't like spawning at a disadvantage anymore, and that's exactly what UT-style games make you do. Outdated gameplay = no one's interested.

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I never thought of it this way before, but it makes sense.

Also, to me it seems most players want a game anyone can play - again, consolish. They don't want a game you have to learn. They want to hop right in and play - If they can't get kills right off the bat, they give up. Lazy bastards.

i_hax said:

Also, to me it seems most players want a game anyone can play - again, consolish. They don't want a game you have to learn. They want to hop right in and play - If they can't get kills right off the bat, they give up. Lazy bastards.

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Meh. To me that's just a silly misconception angry gamers use to justify not playing popular games. Playing UT3 doesn't make you 1773 nor does playing CoD4 make you a st00b.

Everyone spawns with a good weapon in CoD4, but if you suck you'll still suck, and against decent players you will die very quickly. As a newb in CoD4 I got killed a lot. The difference between that and something like UT3 is that in CoD4 at least you feel like you could have done something. A false feeling of hope, perhaps, but it's better than nothing. You can get just as many random kills in spammy desperation in UT3 as you can in CoD4. Perhaps more in UT3. By your standards that makes UT3 more "consolish."

But spawning with a good weapon probably has some psychological effect on the inherent fun factor. In UT3 you spawn with a pea shooter that is almost completely useless against every other gun. If you die quickly it's obviously the game's fault for not arming you properly. You might want to learn and you might even have an infinite capacity for learning, but if you can't even get to a weapon that can actually kill people, what's the point?

It's all part of the learning curve. There may be equal amounts of things to learn in each game, but games like UT have always made the initial stuff too high a hurdle for most gamers to overcome. That's not 1773; it's just bad design if you're looking to make a killer app that gets 100,000 players.

Hmm. Disorganized thoughts. Maybe I'll come back later and fix this post up a bit, but for now it'll have to do.

DGUnreal said:

UE3 is probably going to see fewer mods come to completion than UT2k4 though, since it is considerably more work to create a competitive mod now.
The number of mods that I am aware of that are still being worked on versus those announced over the past six months is very few.

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Yeah it certainly is possible there will be less, which is unfortunate but keeping up with all the new tech etc isnt an easy task by any means.

When I typed about mods getting completed after UT3 was released I wasnt really thinking of just gunreal though, I had in mind alot of the mods which came alittle later like ballistic weapons or the last two UCMP versions.

On engine upgrades, alot more can be done in regards to coop or single player now than in the past I rekon. No doubt its still a big task but for a team willing then online player counts would mean very little if anything.

There are alot of fun mods out there though for all UT games but I do have a shortlist of my favourites. Most of them are of a higher caliber in my eyes than others, so Im not going to list any of them, just the level of support and the attention to gameplay makes these stand out for me. I will try stuff of alittle lower caliber from time to time and some of it is brilliant, other stuff... Well lets just say Im not a fan of all the RPG invasion maps in 2k4, they are fun for alittle while but you really love to hate them which isnt the best thing to think about mods or maps.

I cant say I ever really touched voicepacks or skins in 2k4 much if at all, maybe I made exceptions for 1 or 2 of each but never a great deal. I tended to stick to bigger mutators, map and packs and TC's myself so while I can see peoples dilemma with all that... Like is the issue with not enough people to try things? or is the issue with its not even possible anymore, because it certainly is possible to do things if you are involved with a bigger mod. Things like skins, voicepacks might be part of a TC so working together is important, if you are making stuff for your own benefit, well it does suck that its not as easy to get it into stock UT3 but I guess thats the game Epic wanted.

I think thats one thing that people dont like about UT3, they expected it to be an open sandbox or something instead of an actual title. I think it succeeds much more as a title than previous UT's but perhaps fails to deliever as much on the customisation side of things. I liked Epic went this way myself for a cohesive title, even if you dont like some things about the game you gotta admit they succeeded in that.

Who knows what will come, UE3 has shown its worth 10x over in the engine market, Im really looking forward to what modders can pull off. It might take some time but Im holding onto my copy of UT3, so if its not multiplayer it just means I can play your mod while gamespy is down

T2A` said:

In UT3 you spawn with a pea shooter that is almost completely useless against every other gun. If you die quickly it's obviously the game's fault for not arming you properly. You might want to learn and you might even have an infinite capacity for learning, but if you can't even get to a weapon that can actually kill people, what's the point?

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Regardless of where you spawn you're rarely more than a few seconds away from a better weapon. Nothing will save you if you respawn right next to a guy who has flak or rockets probably, of course.

And if they want useless, they should play with the 200x Ass Rifle. At least the UT3 Enforcer has a CHANCE of killing, especially if you have two.

Yeah I stated playing Overlord and the my roomy started playing it and then when he got tot he part where you could forge or upgrade your weapons he was hooked ppl like having custome stuff to suit them

Sir_Brizz said:

At level 1 in CoD4 you have utter crap weapons, and you basically have to rely on luck to level up and get weapons that are good. This means that you could have dozens of games where you don't accomplish anything and still have the crappiest guns in the game.

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I dunno why you seem to think so, but the M16A4 and MP5 are anything but crappy weapons. It's also completely unfeasible to go "dozens" of games without getting to level 5 unless you suck incredible amounts of ass and pretty much never get any kills. If that's the case then no locked weapon would save you anyway. I think I got to level 5 in three matches. D:

The crappiness in being levels 1-4 in CoD4 is that you can't choose your perks and the default perk loadouts are dumb as hell. I still use both the M16A4 and MP5 regularly. I'm pretty certain the W1200 pump-shotty is in the default classes as well... I use that one too. And isn't the M40A3 sniper in there too? I still use that one! I would rank the M16A4 as the #2 AR behind the AK-47. And the M16A4 is #1 if you don't run-and-gun like me. Lots of people think the M4 is the best AR but I don't buy that crap for a second. M40A3 = #1 sniper and W1200 = #1 shotty. How are they crap weapons when they're the best? D:

Dark Pulse said:

And if they want useless, they should play with the 200x Ass Rifle. At least the UT3 Enforcer has a CHANCE of killing, especially if you have two.

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In the time I played UT3 I found the enforcer to be anything but deadly except in very close quarters. It's no UT99 enforcer, that's for damn sure. Yeah, the primary does 20 damage, but the bullet spread is so effing random that at any viable distance you can't predict your own chances of survival.

Thus, it's smarter to run away from any enemies you spot to find a better weapon... just like in UT2003/4. At the very least the ass rifle had nades; those were the only thing that kept me from tossing it as soon as I spawned. Before UTComp neutered it down to one spawn nade, having the ass rifle wasn't too terrible given the 280 damage potential held in the alt fire.

Sir_Brizz said:

At level 1 in CoD4 you have utter crap weapons

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The most skilled players I have witnessed so far were uber pros with a nude M16. So that statement doesn't stand.

its called iron sights
any monkey can aim with that and while prone

Bottom line, really, is that UT3 doesnt have enough VARIETY of THEME and STYLES.

For a lot of people, they can only use what came with the game - so if the content all looks the same most maps are going to look the same. This is bad because a lot of maps wont be built quite to the same quality as the standard maps, and being the same "look" - what has it got to interest people?? (that said, there *are* some really creative and well done maps out there in this category - but they still look same style)

(IMO they need to bring out UT4 already, and TOTALLY steer away from dark-gloomy style persay.. like UT2003-2004 was a "update" in a short period of time, and made a lot of people happy)

Anyway, I will continue to map for UT3 (and hopefully beyond..) if anything just for myself and my own satisfaction.

Meh. Hardcore.

It's way too easy to kill people in hardcore mode; I suspect that's why people like it. Spam away and if one stray bullet lands you get a kill. How is that skillful? There's just not as much strategy when people are so easy to kill and half the perks are suddenly pointless.

Another thing I dislike is FFA. The spawns are random so people often spawn right effing behind you. Unlike UT-style games where you'd have to go find a weapon, spawning right behind someone in CoD4 means a free kill. Therefore camping and covering a zone is the best thing you can do. zZz. D:

I use the M16A4 each and every time I end up in a hardcore server. For normal mode I tend to jump between a naked AK-47 and the MP5, but that's only because I like run-and-gun. If I ever feel like hanging back I go with the M16A4 for normal mode too. Or an ACOG'd M40A3. >:]

Voicepacks are possible, EE has done it. Also Overlord pwns your soul into a singularity of awesomeness.

I can't imagine myself mapping for any other game out there, UT has always been fun for me to do level design and that's where I'm gonna stick to.

Sir_Brizz said:

It's really two sides of the coin, no middle, unfortunately. In hardcore, killing "feels" better. But you die a lot easier. In normal it takes way too many bullets to kill something. It just doesn't feel right.

Also, I mostly try to play HQ.

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It doesn't feel better. It feels easy. One pistol round to the calf shouldn't be a kill. Hardcore mode is just some broken bad idea that people have gotten behind on PC for reasons I don't buy into. One random bullet per kill is anything but hardcore!

A true hardcore mode would be something like this for bullet counts for kills: one to the head or neck, two to the chest, three to the gut area, four everywhere else. Keep the radar disabled except for UAV, then remove helis, retarded perks like Last Stand and Martyrdom, no RPGs or stun grenades, and ensure that the killcam is always disabled. That way aim is rewarded and spam still works but it isn't so effective.

I agree that normal mode can take too many bullets, though. Stopping Power is essentially a requirement therein. But that's what happens when you have assault rifles doing 20-30 damage a shot as if assault rifles are somehow weak weapons. CoD4's a fun game. It's a shame it has such questionable balance. D:

My, we've strayed from the thread topic. D:

I know it's a little OT at this point in the discussion, but I had to chime in against the argument that the COD4 weapons are unbalanced. I'm a pretty high level now (forget the number ), but I still use an M-16 with iron sights and a silencer attachment, and get regular and consecutive kills even in normal mode. The gun is super accurate from range and you can put a three round burst into someone's head with ease. The shottie is a favorite as well, I made it all the way up to the highest level on another account using pretty much only that gun. So I have to disagree with the statement that COD's weapons are unbalanced. I mean, even near the top tier of the weapons, the guns have some drawbacks compared to the lower end stuff. Most of the automatics do less damage than the semi-auto weapons, and are less accurate over range, and while the higher level snipers may fire faster, they're harder to aim and generally do less damage (with the exception of the Barrett, which is just harder to aim). Again, like I said, I still use the stock weapons (including the stock sniper rifle), because they're still legitimate weapons, even against higher tier weapons - after all, a bullet in the head is a bullet in the head.



I think the big deal about COD4 is the achievements system (duh) - it gives the game that addictive value, that encourages you to keep playing so you can get better stuff. What does UT (any of the series) have to keep you coming back? I mean, yea, it's fun, but at the same time, doing really well in one round and then doing really crappy in another means absolutely nothing. COD4's achievements give you the sense that hey, you're accomplishing something, and even when you do poorly, you're at least 10 or so points towards your next big goal. If UT had something similar, like I don't know, different options with player customization, or being able to switch out all the flak cannons on the map with another upgraded (but still balanced) gun, it would have a lot more appeal. In fact, I'm writing that down, that'd be pretty sweet to use later

Oh, and you can level up to level five or so within about two regular matches, so it's not like you're stuck without good perks for very long - and the devs stretched the achievement process nicely, so you feel like you're moving up relatively fast and getting good stuff the whole way.