Mars Rover Curiosity Landing, Next 24 Hours

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Jacks:Revenge

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Jun 18, 2006
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somewhere; sometime?
well the most likely theory is that a comet slammed into Mars when the planet was relatively more fertile with some kind of life-sustaining atmosphere. but very early on, very primitive life; microbes. the debris from the impact would have sent considerable material out into space in all directions. invariably some of it would have reached Earth and made it all the way to our turf. so technically we could all be Martians.

and we already know that very simple lifeforms (like microbes) can exist in - and survive - extremely harsh conditions that would otherwise obliterate the complex life systems we are familiar with on the surface. right now, at some of the deepest depths of the ocean, microbial life has found a foothold and actually become complex. they're just tubeworms, but the fact of their proliferation is incredible.

hydrothermal_vent.jpg


they are thriving under EXTREME pressure and temperatures.
they begin to grow near thermal vents where the water is utterly boiling. but just beyond the "breath" of the vents the water is freezing. and of course this is miles down where the pressure would instantly destroy the kind of life that is normal to us.

if microbes can survive (and thrive) in this environment, they can do so virtually anywhere. the only necessary ingredient is stability.
nothing else matters. well, aside from a source of energy like the sun (solar) which we used to think was the only source. but now we have observed life that has NEVER seen a moment of sunlight.

the external conditions just need to be stable long enough for life to become accustomed to it. and then BOOM, it takes off.
as long as there's some kind of energy nearby that life can use to metabolize, life can exist almost anywhere.
 
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Lruce Bee

Transcending to another level
May 3, 2001
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Jacks - you're telling me something I already know.
I personally believe there is life in abundance throughout the universe - you only have to take a look at the Drakes Equation to work out a ball park figure.
Having hard evidence is another matter - until you get scientific confirmation, it doesn't matter what you believe.
 

[GU]elmur_fud

I have balls of Depleted Uranium
Mar 15, 2005
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... Or how about that we were an experiment that outlived our inventors that once lived on Mars...

The premise of Christianity is essentially that we are an experiment in free will. Considering that the bible seems to be a narrative from the perspective of the lab rats... that is not entirely a new concept.

I wonder what the creationists will make of it when we do find life on other planets?

As far as I know christian religions already believe there is. After all God and his angels are in essence aliens. Though Jesus a zombie alien... he wants your souls. There is even indication in the bible that we are not the only experimental planet. just the only one that ate the apple. To put it scientifically we are the monkey that pushed the wrong button and got shocked instead of a banana.
 
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Jacks:Revenge

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Jun 18, 2006
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somewhere; sometime?
Jacks - you're telling me something I already know.
I figured as much, knowing you.

this wasn't necessarily directed at you personally.
just to say that anyone who thinks there couldn't be life elsewhere is downright delusional.

Having hard evidence is another matter - until you get scientific confirmation, it doesn't matter what you believe.
you'd be right 9 out of 10 times.

but in this case I think it's different.
do we really need to find "proof" to say that life must exist on other planets? it's simple math; probabilities combined with the current knowledge of chemistry and astronomy.

because... I mean... what kind of "proof" is going to change the minds of someone who already can't be made to see the logic?
what can we possibly find that would satisfy people like that?

because it's not like we're going to find humanoid aliens with big heads and large, dark eyes. the only proof of life we're going to find anywhere near Earth (anytime soon) would be fossilized microbes or extremely primitive flora. and unfortunately I don't think this is going to sway anyone who already thinks that humans are the ultimate/final or highest form of life.

we would need to find the humanoid aliens to really shake things up.
and those are nowhere near us.
 

Lruce Bee

Transcending to another level
May 3, 2001
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I think it was M.A.D.X.W (what happened to her anyway?) who said that we ourselves are proof that alien life exists and I thought that was a really nice counter statement to those believing otherwise.
The fact that we ourselves are here and that our planet contains hundreds of thousands of different life forms and species as you point out Jacks, in the most inhospitable environments you're ever likely to see does confirm that once life gets a foothold, it flourishes, seemingly against all the odds.
Add this with the probabilities derived from the Drakes Equation and you'd be really hard pressed to bet against it happening elsewhere.
But actually having it confirmed wouldn't surprise me at all - I just wonder how I would react to it personally - part of me would see it as a monumental breakthrough for humankind but on the flip side of the coin, I think I'd be a little terrified as well, to see how humanity would actually handle that.
 

Zxanphorian

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Jul 1, 2002
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hydrothermal_vent.jpg


they are thriving under EXTREME pressure and temperatures.
they begin to grow near thermal vents where the water is utterly boiling. but just beyond the "breath" of the vents the water is freezing. and of course this is miles down where the pressure would instantly destroy the kind of life that is normal to us.

Well the water isn't boiling, it is just above the boiling point at STP. The water is more like a supercritical fluid, due to the immense pressures.

Also, not to mention just the extreme pressure and temperature, the water near the vents is also highly acidic, by some accounts, as acidic as vinegar.

[GU]elmur_fud;2570370 said:
The premise of Christianity is essentially that we are an experiment in free will. Considering that the bible seems to be a narrative from the perspective of the lab rats... that is not entirely a new concept.

Does Christianity and the Bible have a repeatable and testable hypothesis, that includes many experimental groups and at least one control? If not, it isn't a true experiment.

I think it was M.A.D.X.W (what happened to her anyway?) who said that we ourselves are proof that alien life exists and I thought that was a really nice counter statement to those believing otherwise.
The fact that we ourselves are here and that our planet contains hundreds of thousands of different life forms and species as you point out Jacks, in the most inhospitable environments you're ever likely to see does confirm that once life gets a foothold, it flourishes, seemingly against all the odds.
Add this with the probabilities derived from the Drakes Equation and you'd be really hard pressed to bet against it happening elsewhere.
But actually having it confirmed wouldn't surprise me at all - I just wonder how I would react to it personally - part of me would see it as a monumental breakthrough for humankind but on the flip side of the coin, I think I'd be a little terrified as well, to see how humanity would actually handle that.

Yeah, you have a point there. Yes, as you and others have said, the probabilities stack up in favor of life in other areas of the universe. We have already found many exoplanets out there that reside in their own solar system's habitable zone. But on the other hand, gathering proof is another animal. And it is unknown, due to the vastness of space, when or even if humanity will ever find life. We may kill ourselves off before we even have the opportunity.
 

shadow_dragon

is ironing his panties!
Does Christianity and the Bible have a repeatable and testable hypothesis, that includes many experimental groups and at least one control? If not, it isn't a true experiment.

Religion in general can lay claim to a lot of the most important scientific discoveries regarding our early understanding of the universe.

Who would've been in a better position to study the stars than the rich and well educated searching for the secrets of their own god's creation by staring up into the non-coincidentally named "heavens".

Maybe that's not enough to counter your point but sometimes they can be given some credit eh?
 

[GU]elmur_fud

I have balls of Depleted Uranium
Mar 15, 2005
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...Does Christianity and the Bible have a repeatable and testable hypothesis, that includes many experimental groups and at least one control? If not, it isn't a true experiment...

Well if it references other planets, albeit vaguely, that would equal "many experimental groups"... Regardless of that, nobody is calling it a scientific journal or hypothesis, so your argument is excessively illogical. If a bunch of humans were involved in some experiment and a few decided to write about their experiences, you wouldn't call that science, but it could have some relevance there-to.

Basically the existence of life on other planets isn't going to have much of an impact on religion unless they are doing very 'sinful' things there, as Biblically we are supposed to be the only bad planet out there. Or if when asked about a god they respond with "who dat?"

The Mars rover is very unlikely to achieve any of that. Life on mars is a slim possibility. Intelligent life is dam nigh impossible there. Finding evidence that it once existed there is more likely.

What drives me up the wall here:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/multimedia/pia16075.html

Is they give no geological info resulting from this test. :mad:
 
Apr 21, 2003
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Complex life needs time to develope. Time Mars did not have. So I doubt we will find something epic on there, but maybe some small things that may be a nice surprise.