FragBU: Friday March 13th, Saturday March 14th

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Dark Pulse

Dolla, Dolla. Holla, Holla.
Sep 12, 2004
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darkpulse.project2612.org
BTW, this just tells me you don't understand the gametype. Of course you're going to be behind vs. a shorthanded team, simply because they have more of an opportunity for getting kills and skulls... (more bodies to shoot at).
You're also missing the fact that they still outskilled our team. You ain't going to win in Greed if your guys can't kill the opposing team, and with all due respect to Zxan and Skold, they're not at the level you or Tre are. (Ugh... I hate how that sounds like I'm bashing them. I'm really not... but how can you say that positively?) Blue had more skill, less guys to get killed, and just about every conceivable advantage as a result.

Again, FragBU is supposed to be about good close games... not blowouts. By moving Tre and Skold, Teams had roughly similar amounts of skill, and the match was actually competitve from that point on. Red could actually score without getting clobbered, and Blue couldn't just rack up skulls by killing off the weaker elements of Red. Once they got a couple points ahead, they could just hang back and frag as they pleased, with no real reason to even attack, knowing full well that to win, we not only had to go offensive, but win the fights as well. Could it have been done? Maybe, but it's unlikely as hell... and those chances went to zero as soon as you showed up on their end. The match WOULD be rape, no matter how you slice it, without someone switching, and if you've got a way to prove it wouldn't have been, I'd sure like to read your rationale.

We shouldn't have to put crap like Titan Team Fixer on to randomize the teams. We should have the discipline to do it on our own. So yes, I called teams. And then I got your reaction which I think was insulting, uncalled for, and did nothing but make me respect you less as a player. If I want people who don't care about stacked teams, I'd go to a pub or ProU. I don't expect it from a member of Ci.

We're all guilty of racking up the points from time to time, and admittingly I probably even did it the next night, but we need to keep sportsmanship in mind above all else. If one team's getting clobbered, it's not very fun for the team who's getting served. On a pub there's not much you can do but find another server, but on FragBU, we have a community, and we should know enough to switch if at all possible unless switching would horridly unbalance it in the opposite way. UT3 has few enough players as it is, and the last few weeks we FINALLY have a mostly-full server for FragBU nights. Let's not alienate what few players we have by subjecting them to blowout after blowout, okay?

If it makes you feel better, I'll apologize for whatever slight, percieved or otherwise, I gave you in the act of simply trying to create a fair match. In my mind, I was the only one who even had a shot against the three of you, so I figured one of you coming over and one person switching to fill that gap created a more even, more fun, more challenging match for both sides.
 
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d3tox

Face down in a pool of his own vomit.
Apr 8, 2008
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By moving Tre and Skold, Teams had roughly similar amounts of skill.

Not IMO, but I'm not going to continue discussing this here unless you want Cheatox taking over for me. (He's a real a$$hole, and some may be offended by his outlandish comments and the not so sugar coated truth he brings to the table.)

I had no intentions of ever discussing it here, but you brought it here.

ITS CAREBEAR AWARENESS WEEK PEOPLE! WITH DP AS OUR POSTERBOY, WE CAN SPREAD THE NEWS ABOUT CAREBEARS SO THEY WON'T BE CONFINED TO MMO'S ANY LONGER. YAY!
 

shoptroll

Active Member
Jan 21, 2004
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I wasn't there but I'm with DP on this one, since we had this debate numerous times back in the UT2004 era as well.

It really really sucks when you're on the recieving end and no one seems to really be attempting to balance the teams to be a better match. Yes it's not always possible but it needs to be done. Last weekend I was in some pretty terrible WAR matches on the new Titan pack maps. JD and DP were completely schooling the hell out of my team over the course of 3 maps. The only time I really play UT3 is during FragBU so I regularly admit that I suck at this game, which is only compounded by the fact that the majority of people there were probably seeing the maps for the very first time. I'm pretty certain I called for teams, or at least made some side remarks about it and no one switched.

If a game is essentially decided in the first 5 minutes, what's the point of playing the rest of the match if you can't change the outcome?
 

d3tox

Face down in a pool of his own vomit.
Apr 8, 2008
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I wasn't there but I'm with DP on this one, since we had this debate numerous times back in the UT2004 era as well.

It really really sucks when you're on the recieving end and no one seems to really be attempting to balance the teams to be a better match. Yes it's not always possible but it needs to be done. Last weekend I was in some pretty terrible WAR matches on the new Titan pack maps. JD and DP were completely schooling the hell out of my team over the course of 3 maps. The only time I really play UT3 is during FragBU so I regularly admit that I suck at this game, which is only compounded by the fact that the majority of people there were probably seeing the maps for the very first time. I'm pretty certain I called for teams, or at least made some side remarks about it and no one switched.

If a game is essentially decided in the first 5 minutes, what's the point of playing the rest of the match if you can't change the outcome?


So DP was on the giving end and nothing got done? He's a hypocrite and a carebear? Jeeeeez CMON MAN!

Seriously. I don't complain about teams, EVER. If I can sway it and still win and make you look worse in the end, believe that if you stack the deck against me, I'm gonna be bringing it. If it's not possible to win, I'm going to make it as uncomfortable as possible for you.

Uneven teams = good practice.
 

shoptroll

Active Member
Jan 21, 2004
2,226
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So DP was on the giving end and nothing got done? He's a hypocrite and a carebear? Jeeeeez CMON MAN!

Seriously. I don't complain about teams, EVER. If I can sway it and still win and make you look worse in the end, believe that if you stack the deck against me, I'm gonna be bringing it. If it's not possible to win, I'm going to make it as uncomfortable as possible for you.

I wouldn't call him a hypocrite because he already said he's as guilty as the next person.

The problem is that unlike UT2004, UT3 doesn't shuffle teams on map switch which exacerbates the problem if it goes unchecked.
 

KillerSkaarj

Art for swans is dope!
Jan 24, 2008
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Originally I didn't want to be a part of this argument, but this quote is bugging me to no end.

Uneven teams = good practice.

The reason behind Instant Action is to practice. If you want to practice, go fight bots. Last time I checked, bots could care less if they're getting smashed. With players, it's a lot different.

And how do you call someone a carebear and then put a carebear as your avatar? That makes no sense.

Again, I didn't want to be a part of this but I couldn't just turn away and leave it without addressing these points.
 
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N1ghtmare

Sweet Dreams
Jul 17, 2005
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Uneven teams = good practice.

Decent Challenge instead of rape == good practice

FBU is a community event with a wide range of skill. It is not a clan that tries to practice to get better; it is community members trying to have fun. And it is very difficult for the less-sklilled players to have fun (or get better at all) when they get raped.
 
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JohnDoe641

Killer Fools Pro
Staff member
Nov 8, 2000
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FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.
 

d3tox

Face down in a pool of his own vomit.
Apr 8, 2008
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I wouldn't call him a hypocrite because he already said he's as guilty as the next person.

The problem is that unlike UT2004, UT3 doesn't shuffle teams on map switch which exacerbates the problem if it goes unchecked.

Yes, but if you're going to be the "even teams police", it's ok to leave it go for 3 maps even when someone says something? You said it yourself. I just happened to join a shorthanded team and before I even started playing the whining started.

The reason behind Instant Action is to practice. If you want to practice, go fight bots. Last time I checked, bots could care less if they're getting smashed. With players, it's a lot different.

And how do you call someone a carebear and then put a carebear as your avatar? That makes no sense.

Do yourself a favor, and go into the bathroom, look in the mirror, and berate yourself endlessly. Those who taught you to read and comprehend have failed you, as you have failed them.

That comment was justification of WHY I DONT GIVE A CRAP about being on a short handed team. I don't care what you think about uneven teams. Most of the better CTF teams will practice 4vs6 for that reason alone.

And no wormbo, uneven teams don't necessarily mean not fun. That's for wussies who can't handle or won't embrace a challenge... (Which is why I called DP out in the first place)
 

KillerSkaarj

Art for swans is dope!
Jan 24, 2008
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I'm sorry, could you repeat that? I kinda couldn't hear you over your endless ego. Plus, your response had nothing to do with my comment.

Now it's your choice to end the argument that you started.
 
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Zer0

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Jan 19, 2008
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I wasn't going to get involved in this but, oh well!

Both of you are acting like kids over some unfair teams, and some hurtful words (lol).
The whole carebear thing is incredibly stupid, seems more like something I would see on ProU. Not something I expected from Ci.
Although I think you're both wrong regarding team balancing, and the state of FragBU. D3tox has acted like a huge asshat here. So, for once, I am actually on DP's side.

But continuing this petty argument isn't going to do any good, regardless of who's "right".

Both of you.
Stop it.

:y5:
 

d3tox

Face down in a pool of his own vomit.
Apr 8, 2008
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He brought it here, and I felt it necessary to justify my assessment, which stands.
 

JohnDoe641

Killer Fools Pro
Staff member
Nov 8, 2000
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FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.
FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.

FragBU has always had uneven teams and complete blow outs, but maybe it's time to stop arguing like like kids who just **** their pants and just start switching.

Do it.
 

hal

Dictator
Staff member
Nov 24, 1998
21,409
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------->
www.beyondunreal.com
Sigh... fluffle up you two... :fluffle:

On a more productive note... what's the general feeling about introducing a mutator that will randomize teams one time at the beginning of the match?

I personally think it would be fun to get to play with everyone instead of UT3's idea of team organization - the same teams every round. Also, perhaps it would be less discouraging for some of the less-practiced players to know that the next round teams would at least be different. They might be horribly imbalanced skill-wise, but at least they'd be random. And heck, they're imbalanced now sometimes anyway.

I'm not for continually trying to rebalance teams throughout a match, but it'd at least be nice to know that, in the next round, you aren't going to be up against the very same juggernaut of a team you are currently facing.

I know teams practice undermanned and I think I would too if I were on a team because that's the kind of thing you expect in competition. Having said that, we're not giving away prizes or anything for winning a game at FragBU. So let's have fun, shall we?
 

shoptroll

Active Member
Jan 21, 2004
2,226
2
38
40
I'm with DP and JD on this one. I think in UT2 if we had to shake up the teams it was only once a match anyways. Having to constantly balance teams would be too disruptive.

Can someone be the squeaky wheel on the server mailing list to see if team randomization could be added to the next patch, at least as an option?
 

flak-spammer

flak-spammer literally
May 20, 2005
133
0
16
Canada
I think it would be better if the teams were randomized but still wonder why people are unable to make that action themselves.