What direction do you want the next UT game to go?
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It's me, or this thread has been converted to "what UT3 needs"?
**** dodge-jumping.
More like fix the Stinger rather than adding another Minigun.
**** dodge-jumping.
More like fix the Stinger rather than adding another Minigun.
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Basically you want UT2k4 again Shlomo 
If I was to have a hold on the UT franchise, I'd definitely add more of a social side, as has already been suggested. However, on the topic of unlocks;
I would say UT unlocks would have to be approached differently than other games (i.e. where you start with nothing and have to work your way up, adding things to make you better). If I were to do a UT unlocks system, I'd have maybe three categories of unlocks, Defense, Offense, and Wildcard. When you start you can get things like extra 50 health, 25 points of shield (defense), your start weapon be a shock rifle or bio rifle instead of enforcer (offense), or a wildcard (randomly get berserker powerup after a multi kill). At any time, a player can only play a major perk (say, an offense perk where you start with a sniper rifle), and a minor perk (in the same category, a minor perk would be boosted enforcer damage or quicker hammer recharge time, or slightly increased wall jump distance).
By the same token, each perk may or may not come with a disadvantage. Most all major perks would come with one - like for instance, if you picked to have a shock rifle as a starting weapon, non combo damage is reduced and you might have a lowered max health with health packs (but would still be able to increase to 100+ via health vials), or they might have a random chance - like for instance if you choose to have extra health, your enforcers might do more damage for head or crotch shots.
This way, perks don't give you an advantage so much as they tweak the game to your play style, while still giving you accomplishments. An in-game leaderboard that you see, say, when youre waiting to load a server (instead of that freaking useless chat screen), let's you see the top 100 players in the entire game vs. your standing. This would encourage people to actively try to get on that board, because every person who plays the game would see them every time. A tighter clan integration system (more so than just a tag at the front of your name), like an integrated clan challenging system and maybe even a persistant warfare map for each server. I'm thinking like you have a big map with different control points. Each control point = a match. Every time one team wins the control point, they take it over and advance closer towards the enemy's main core. When you reach the enemy's core on the main map, you fight a regular battle on the battlefield, and if you win, you win the meta-war and the game is reset. The most similar to this I guess would be Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, or Freespace 2's SquadWar, where individual matches were calculated into a larger persistent whole.
Notice that I DON'T want to turn UT into an MMO. I'm just suggesting this because a sense of accomplishment is what really drives players to the whole achievements thing, or the unlocks thing - they want to feel that what they're playing is accomplishing something. Nothing in UT matters - you lose a match or win it, big deal, the next match is from scratch, so to speak. A server by server constant battle would encourage server loyalty, community building, etc.
Whew, I'm done. Anyone want to make a mod and submit it to MSUC?
If I was to have a hold on the UT franchise, I'd definitely add more of a social side, as has already been suggested. However, on the topic of unlocks;
I would say UT unlocks would have to be approached differently than other games (i.e. where you start with nothing and have to work your way up, adding things to make you better). If I were to do a UT unlocks system, I'd have maybe three categories of unlocks, Defense, Offense, and Wildcard. When you start you can get things like extra 50 health, 25 points of shield (defense), your start weapon be a shock rifle or bio rifle instead of enforcer (offense), or a wildcard (randomly get berserker powerup after a multi kill). At any time, a player can only play a major perk (say, an offense perk where you start with a sniper rifle), and a minor perk (in the same category, a minor perk would be boosted enforcer damage or quicker hammer recharge time, or slightly increased wall jump distance).
By the same token, each perk may or may not come with a disadvantage. Most all major perks would come with one - like for instance, if you picked to have a shock rifle as a starting weapon, non combo damage is reduced and you might have a lowered max health with health packs (but would still be able to increase to 100+ via health vials), or they might have a random chance - like for instance if you choose to have extra health, your enforcers might do more damage for head or crotch shots.
This way, perks don't give you an advantage so much as they tweak the game to your play style, while still giving you accomplishments. An in-game leaderboard that you see, say, when youre waiting to load a server (instead of that freaking useless chat screen), let's you see the top 100 players in the entire game vs. your standing. This would encourage people to actively try to get on that board, because every person who plays the game would see them every time. A tighter clan integration system (more so than just a tag at the front of your name), like an integrated clan challenging system and maybe even a persistant warfare map for each server. I'm thinking like you have a big map with different control points. Each control point = a match. Every time one team wins the control point, they take it over and advance closer towards the enemy's main core. When you reach the enemy's core on the main map, you fight a regular battle on the battlefield, and if you win, you win the meta-war and the game is reset. The most similar to this I guess would be Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, or Freespace 2's SquadWar, where individual matches were calculated into a larger persistent whole.
Notice that I DON'T want to turn UT into an MMO. I'm just suggesting this because a sense of accomplishment is what really drives players to the whole achievements thing, or the unlocks thing - they want to feel that what they're playing is accomplishing something. Nothing in UT matters - you lose a match or win it, big deal, the next match is from scratch, so to speak. A server by server constant battle would encourage server loyalty, community building, etc.
Whew, I'm done. Anyone want to make a mod and submit it to MSUC?
While it wouldn't be used in the competitive field, stuff like this is required to attract gamers to this game.
Essentially, imagine COD4 as it is right now... unlocks other crap like that, you know, the stuff that attracts joe 6 pack. But, when you play COD4 for CAL, you have a choice between 4 perks, no semi-snipers, but every single weapon and attachment unlock is available to you. So therefore its COD4 without all the cheap bull**** attached.
The UT series needs that. A game with a bunch of cheap BS to attract gamers, so the competitive side can atleast get some fresh blood and new clans from it. In the end, the comp side can just make their comp mods and be happy.
Comp side is happy with a bunch of action and new people, fresh blood and TOURNAMENTS! Active leagues, circuits, whatnot. Casual side is happy with their aherm, "vehikalz" conquest, unlocks, perks and levels.
The stinger is just a re-skinned mini minus the alt fire now being projectile in its coding.
The minigun concept is boring, why bring it back, when you could just say "tweak" the stinger damage, if that is your problem with it.
Also, the dodge jump was garbage. Maps look way better now that they aren't suited to that kind of movement.
The minigun concept is boring, why bring it back, when you could just say "tweak" the stinger damage, if that is your problem with it.
Also, the dodge jump was garbage. Maps look way better now that they aren't suited to that kind of movement.
I suggest we diverge from this course of conversation before this becomes another "dodge jump/no dodge jump" thread. Epic made the decision to remove the dodge jump in this UT, it's logical to assume that it will stay that way for awhile. Whether that's bad or good is up to you, don't argue something pointless.
Anyway, Shlomo, I think it'd be a boon to the competitive gameplay as well - with all the unlocks enabled, it would allow players to have that extra depth of strategy to tailor matches to other opponent's play styles (got an enemy who likes to use the shock combo and hitscan a lot? Boost your health or maybe lower your suspectability to energy-based weapons, while boosting your vulnerability to explosives and projectiles). Also, add in a more pronounced effect that you're fighting the leader of the match - why has it always been in deathmatch that a player can be a god but you don't know it's him until they kill you? Or why isn't he a target for other players to try to kill? How about a bright aura around the player that glows brighter as he gets further in the lead?
Or customization? I know UT is open and all, but how about a much more in-depth character customization system, so with each accomplishment or achievement, you get a new unlocked character part - hard to implement in UT, but you could tie certain part "levels" to certain requirements in the code that can only be fulfilled if a registered server pings you with the right ID code. This part might not work though, due to the open nature of UT, but again it's an option.
Anyway, Shlomo, I think it'd be a boon to the competitive gameplay as well - with all the unlocks enabled, it would allow players to have that extra depth of strategy to tailor matches to other opponent's play styles (got an enemy who likes to use the shock combo and hitscan a lot? Boost your health or maybe lower your suspectability to energy-based weapons, while boosting your vulnerability to explosives and projectiles). Also, add in a more pronounced effect that you're fighting the leader of the match - why has it always been in deathmatch that a player can be a god but you don't know it's him until they kill you? Or why isn't he a target for other players to try to kill? How about a bright aura around the player that glows brighter as he gets further in the lead?
Or customization? I know UT is open and all, but how about a much more in-depth character customization system, so with each accomplishment or achievement, you get a new unlocked character part - hard to implement in UT, but you could tie certain part "levels" to certain requirements in the code that can only be fulfilled if a registered server pings you with the right ID code. This part might not work though, due to the open nature of UT, but again it's an option.
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Well, you see, what you don't understand is that even TWL ladders wouldn't use those settings. The point of that gameplay isn't to cater to the comp gamers, its to cater to the casual, to attract more people into the game, and thusly more people into the competitive scene.
No perks, no health boosting or spawning with shock, no auras. TWL rules would probably go around 4v4 TDM WS Off, latest UTComp, no mutators. (Unless its a bugfix mutator because Epic hasn't fixed that bug yet, or its a anti-cheat)
Which in the end would be your comp settings for any ladder, league, or tournament
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Honestly, though - if your logic is that all of those things would get casual people to play so that they can become ladder players...that really doesn't make any sense. Think about it. You're saying that perks and whatnot would attract players to play the game, but then as soon as they hear the "siren call" of tournament play, all of a sudden they'd start not wanting to play with the things that actually drew them INTO the game?
Look at COD4 - the tournament play doesn't instantly do away with the perks - you still play with them, except the focus is instead on balancing your perks for your play style.
You won't get tournament players from casual players by taking out what the casual players enjoy and saying that it's "better".
Look at COD4 - the tournament play doesn't instantly do away with the perks - you still play with them, except the focus is instead on balancing your perks for your play style.
You won't get tournament players from casual players by taking out what the casual players enjoy and saying that it's "better".
No, but when you get good at COD4, and start getting extremely pissed off at marty, noobtubes, jugg and whatnot, thats when you look to the competitive alternatives. Which is precisely what happened to me.
When you get good at UT29873984 with all of that stuff, and start to get pissed off at the various cheap perks and whatnot, thats when you look towards the competitive mods. The more players playing a certain game, the more of those that then get really good and look towards the non-cheap balanced gameplay.
When you get good at UT29873984 with all of that stuff, and start to get pissed off at the various cheap perks and whatnot, thats when you look towards the competitive mods. The more players playing a certain game, the more of those that then get really good and look towards the non-cheap balanced gameplay.
He does have a point. Those systems have worked great for other games. I'll take his word on it for COD4, and vouch myself for the battlefield series. I've played at competitive levels at both games, and at those levels, there simply are no unlocks. You pretty much play with stock, or level 1 equip, and it's fine that way. It puts everyone on even ground, and makes the gameplay fairly balanced via simplicity. The strategy comes from how you play, not what equipment you use.
So things like auto sentry guns, and motion mines, stuff that gets you really cheap easy kills are out, but you are allowed defibs, regular mines, nades, and the basic equip that makes each class more than a different gun.
Talk of this kind of system though, sounds more like we're saying Epic needs to let Unreal die, and start on a new game, or work on a new style of game in between unreal titles. It's hard for me to see this type of stuff making its way into an Unreal title because lack of stuff like this has always been a defining factor in what people like about unreal.
Fast paced gameplay, instant spawns, no reloads, no setup screens, no class selection, no waiting, no debating on what unlocks to pick, setup your controls, open a server, play ball.
So things like auto sentry guns, and motion mines, stuff that gets you really cheap easy kills are out, but you are allowed defibs, regular mines, nades, and the basic equip that makes each class more than a different gun.
Talk of this kind of system though, sounds more like we're saying Epic needs to let Unreal die, and start on a new game, or work on a new style of game in between unreal titles. It's hard for me to see this type of stuff making its way into an Unreal title because lack of stuff like this has always been a defining factor in what people like about unreal.
Fast paced gameplay, instant spawns, no reloads, no setup screens, no class selection, no waiting, no debating on what unlocks to pick, setup your controls, open a server, play ball.
Basically the point i'm trying to make, just not as eloquently.
If Epic killed off the UT series, I wouldn't really shed a tear. With that said, i'd rather they still make some sort of arena based FPS. Quake seems.. well.. dead and UT is not that far behind
If Epic killed off the UT series, I wouldn't really shed a tear. With that said, i'd rather they still make some sort of arena based FPS. Quake seems.. well.. dead and UT is not that far behind
I don't know. I mean, I love UT. I wouldn't mind them branding a new game like this with the UT name, or even killing UT and starting a new one, as long as everything else was the same (mad movement, rocket launchers, etc. - nothing slow, basically make it an arena shooter with more depth). I never had an attachment to UT's universe or the Nali or Skaarj or anything like that, it's all about the gameplay for me.
But I see your point about competitive play having the annoying stuff turned off shlomo. But at the LANs I go to, they do keep the perks and whatnot - just turn off most of the cheap weapons like airstrikes, grenade launchers (oh my god those things made me stop playing COD4 multi for awhile), etc. If they did the same with UT it wouldn't be that bad.
But I see your point about competitive play having the annoying stuff turned off shlomo. But at the LANs I go to, they do keep the perks and whatnot - just turn off most of the cheap weapons like airstrikes, grenade launchers (oh my god those things made me stop playing COD4 multi for awhile), etc. If they did the same with UT it wouldn't be that bad.
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Well said my friend, well said.
As much as I loved UT in the past right know it really isn't offering much more than the other FPS.
Seriously people when sit down and look at games like Team Fortress 2 and Mirror's Edge for example. You can clearly see how these games are pushing the genre and adding something new more that just new game types.
Bringing back anything from UT2004 is probably the worst thing they could possibly do. Unless you think having less than 1,000 people to play with instead of the current 300 or so is a major improvement.
In order for a UT game to be "popular" it's got to break 5,000 without counting bots. If Epic would get the polish on UT3 (including things like sprucing up the UI and adding common community features) I think that is within range, but they will have to do a re-release and give it about 6000 times more media and marketing coverage that UT3 got.
In order for a UT game to be "popular" it's got to break 5,000 without counting bots. If Epic would get the polish on UT3 (including things like sprucing up the UI and adding common community features) I think that is within range, but they will have to do a re-release and give it about 6000 times more media and marketing coverage that UT3 got.
UT2004 was more than "popular" 5 months after release. The MAIN reason the game started to suffer in player count was WoW. My xfire list went from straight "playing ut2004" to straight "playing world of warcraft"
WoW decimated the TDM scene imho
Epic needs to ditch the vehakals. People are over them. TF2 and CoD4 don't have them and they're doing just fine.
The complexity of ONS/Warfare is not conducive to a good pub environment. What UT really needs is a way for crappy people to do alright without making the game too newbish and thus effing it up for everyone else. They probably think Warfare accomplishes this, but I think it does the opposite.
The complexity of ONS/Warfare is not conducive to a good pub environment. What UT really needs is a way for crappy people to do alright without making the game too newbish and thus effing it up for everyone else. They probably think Warfare accomplishes this, but I think it does the opposite.
They did that by ditching the shield gun and lowering the distances you could do with movement, and by ramping up the damage done by each weapon. And the bitch fests from the "hardcore" folks about how they were "n00bifying" the game were heard all across the land.
True, and I was against it when I first heard it, but now I really agree with UT3 choices.
It made the game maybe slightly less competitive, but surely a lot more fun.
No more running after the flying pigeons.
They should just reduce Stinger's primary fire damage IMO.
Against bots it's a nightmare, they are really more dangerous with the Stinger on their hands than with everything else, so it needs to be fixed IMO.