Anti-Establishmentarianism discussion

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Balton

The Beast of Worship
Mar 6, 2001
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Originally posted by lucifix
it really is, for me anyway. i was raised in a christian home with loving parents, so if i didnt listen to them then why in the hell would i listen to anyone else?

what did your parents do when you did not do what they wanted?
btw. my parents are very liberal and I can do what I want. rhey are giving me no time limit when i go out. And they are very understanding. So I have no reason to get mad(cant express it well today). If me parents ask me to bring the thrash out I'll do it cos they are doing much stuff for me. they have respect for me and i have respect for them. its soo simple...
 

lucifix

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
Nov 3, 2001
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Originally posted by Cactus
[at lucifix]


hmmm, good reply to my pornography posts.

i have a problem with people who think they don't have to obey societal morals also. it's absolutely stupid to think that your actions can't be dictated by the government or your fellow man, or that their opinion has no bearing in your decision. you truly think you can be an independent creature? then why are you on the internet? the whole premise of the internet is that it's a community. community = society, community must exist within some confines of a social norm. humans are inherently social, no matter how much they like being alone. it's selfish to think that you simply can live free from other people. why are you on this BBS? if you're not social to begin with, or you don't obey society rules? being social requires you to obey constraints.

it's absolutely ridiculous to say taht if people don't like what they're subjected to, they should just rebel. it's so easy to say isn't it? i don't like the moon, we should blow it out of the sky. it's quite another when you have the muzzle of an AK 47 pointed in your face. you're talking tall, holding onto principle and being high and mighty, but in reality you've never encountered such a situation, and as such you have no right to judge the others in that situation. you have such a simplified and glorified view of how life should be, that it's almost comical. and i suppose that it's a good aspect of this country that people are allowed to be so detached from reality. you don't seem to be able to recognize that there are simply times in life when someone beats you and and you have no means to fight back.

and please don't reply in that fashion to anyone in my thread, it's unbecoming, and you are attacking the person, not the idea, you embody what is wrong with this country, people who always think they know better, people who always think they have the solution, people who think they're just inherently more right than others, gives not a second thought to the social structure and confine in which they live, act in arrogance and haste iwth their feet in the clouds and their heads up their asses. and THAT my friend, is the point of my original post, that people who have no idea how hard it is to make the world work, or how difficult it is to be pragmatic, think it fit to attack other people's ideas, tear down their work, becasue they think they know better, when they really know so little.
hm, lets ee where to start piggy boy.........

why am i on this bbs? for mapping purposes only. i do post in the other stuff forum too but the main reason is mapping.

the ak in the face thing. well i would rather have my brains blown out than to live life WITHOUT ANY HANDS!!! and yes i have encountered a similar situation, staring down the barrel of a rifle and seeing the shell slowly come at me and rip its way through my stomach, replaying over and over for 11 fucking years.

detached from reality? hell yea i am. reality bites :p

there are simply times in life when someone beats you and and you have no means to fight back. true but you CAN try!

well as far as attacking the person and not the idea goes: i learned from a very early age that if you are outside the norm that you cannot reason with someone in the norm. and i have been attacked, not my beliefs, but myself physically because of what i believe. I AM A PRODUCT OF YOUR SOCIETY!
 

Balton

The Beast of Worship
Mar 6, 2001
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Originally posted by lucifix

there are simply times in life when someone beats you and and you have no means to fight back. true but you CAN try!

yes, if you try you at least dont loose your proudness. Or you win. often people just give up too early. I can remember when 3 bigger boys wanted to take my inline skates. I was standing on a damn ground that was ****ty to drive(i was before in a shop to get something). Well I started to say them that I am not going to hand them out the one boy wanted to grab me so i hit my face with the protectors in his face. his freinds were so perplexed that I could drive away. else they would have had me. I tried it and won. Btw. wearing your protection gera is GOOD! man thats already around 3 years ago....
 

lucifix

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
Nov 3, 2001
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Originally posted by Balton.de


yes, if you try you at least dont loose your proudness. Or you win. often people just give up too early. I can remember when 3 bigger boys wanted to take my inline skates. I was standing on a damn ground that was ****ty to drive(i was before in a shop to get something). Well I started to say them that I am not going to hand them out the one boy wanted to grab me so i hit my face with the protectors in his face. his freinds were so perplexed that I could drive away. else they would have had me. I tried it and won. Btw. wearing your protection gera is GOOD! man thats already around 3 years ago....
see balton understands it!
 

lucifix

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
Nov 3, 2001
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Originally posted by The Spiritwalker
HAHAHAHAHA!! YOU are a very funny young "man" this is a public forum devil boy.. get over yourself...LOL....
and yes it does bother me when a person dies.. but I also know that bad things happen.. sometime the "bad thing" is deserved, and if so I appalud it.. but when a person is murdered.. that is just plain sad..
as for you...
I would be willing to bet that you are 15-25.. still at home, no real job, no real future, no real girl in your life (rosey don't count), and for some reason you seem to belive that if it dosen't affect you then it dosen't matter... and maybe one day if you are lucky.. you will see that like I said..

Life affects life...

consider yourself schooled devil-boy..

you know you are starting to remind me of Aero.. but at least he could be open minded
lets see, im 22, my wife is 20 and my son 2. and if doesnt affect me directly then i dont give a damn. after im dead i dont give a fuck what happens to this pathetic world...........
 

lucifix

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
Nov 3, 2001
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Originally posted by The Spiritwalker
....
and yes it does bother me when a person dies.. but I also know that bad things happen.. sometime the "bad thing" is deserved, and if so I appalud it..

you know you are starting to remind me of Aero.. but at least he could be open minded
now THAT is a very scarey thing........i said it didnt bother me, but i sure as hell dont applaud it...........
 

Cactus

The Evil Spatula
Mar 19, 2000
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i feel it somewhat odd that you can uphold the dichotomy of simultaneously saying, "the world be damned" and have a child. you have a child, and i think if you chose parenthood, you would at least have some good wishes for your child, that he can grow up in a better environment than you have, that he can accomplish more than you have. why do you want to leave a world to your child where he constantly has to watch his back? why don't you want to leave your child a better place to live than the world was when you found it? i think it's the inherent wish of all parents to do so, and to that end, we must cooperate with society, society is only receptive to change from within than from without.

again you're mincing words with me, my question is really why you participate in organized society anyway? why do you map? cuz it's fun, and it lets other epeople see your work, it gives you a sense of accomplishment, all those things come from society, if not for the fact taht there are ears to hear you and eyes to see your work, why would you map or even speak? speech is useless when there are nobody to listen. i know why i'm here, because i know that there are people who listen and read, and communicate within the bounds of society and civility. if you feel yoruself entirely unbound by those things, then there is no real reason for you to do any of the things you do. think about it.

moreover, attacks by a few teens on one person is vastly different from attacks from a mob of people, or an organized government, how many rapes/murders do you suspect exist every year compared to the number of people killed by mobs or governments? ten thousand? a hundred thousand? a million? you compare that to what's going on every day in africa, in east timor, in the middle east, you think that's a large number? you're saying "well in tihs specific case when tehre are 3 people or less, in a mediumj to small frame and you are well built, and such and such conditions, you should fight back." can you possibly imagine how few situations in life are actually like that? and how many women honestly you think, don't fight back against a rapist? the number is so small it warrants no discussion. and i really dont' think it's right to marginalize suffering to say that well if they don't fight back they deserve it.

take another example. if i wanted to live "outside the social norm" by putting babies on spikes. should i be able to do that? should i be allowed to impale babies on spikes? sure it's sick, but hey, i'm outside the societal norm, i'm standing over here away from society. i don't have to operate by society's rules you know. of course in taht situation someone's going to come in and stop me, why the hell not? putting babies on spikes is not a tolerable act, we live in society, we share society's land and resources, when we buy a pair of shoes, it wasn't made by us, it was made by the shoemaker, who through a system of trade, and routing networks, infrastructure and systems of ownership made possible BY SOCIETY, only through this vast network of unseen routine actions coordinated BY SOCIETY are we able to obtain a pair of shoes. and as such, the "tax" we have to pay is that we obey society's rules to be a part of it, which include a rule against putting babies on spikes.

think about how often you patronize tihs society. you buy milk, you buy shoes, buy baby products, diapers... every time you buy those things, you are patronizing society, utilizing the social network that puts the products in your supermarket, you're buying into consumerism, you are utilizing hte resources of the world. you are not makign your own diapers or shoes or milk, you are not even going to drive down to the factories where each of those items are made and picking them up, you are buying it from a centralized, localized depository, shipped on an infrastructure, roads, rails, planes, made possible, not by your own hands, but by society. if you think you can simply live detached from society, you'd have to give up more than you think, and certainly more than you want. if you're not ready to start building your own cars from scratch, making your own steel, molding your own pistons, you will continue to patronize society. you have the right to question that society's policies, as i have, but you have no right to criticize the existence of that society. you can question specific actions, but still you must appreciate the underlying structure that society has provided for you and you so regularly employ to your advantage. to do otherwise cannot be justified.

furthermore, its really an act of leeching on society when you wan to continually patronize it while constantly bitching about the fact that it exists. you want to use it for the good and bash it. it's irresponsible. do you just walk out on your wife when you have a fight? no, you sit down and work it out, especially when you have a child. why is it different from society? do you just f*ck her and leave her? use her for the time being and then when it's inconvenient, jsut walk away? no, i dont' think so, if you do, then you're foolish AND irresponsible.

but i will agree with you on one thing, that you are indeed a product of this society, and it is good that people like you exist, because it reflects that the society is healthy, when ideas are not homogenous, and people are allowed to share them, njo matter how stupid they may seem to one party or another. that is a fundamental principle i will not question.
 

lucifix

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
Nov 3, 2001
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i feel it somewhat odd that you can uphold the dichotomy of simultaneously saying, "the world be damned" and have a child. you have a child, and i think if you chose parenthood

I SAID WHEN I AM DEAD! and when i am dead i will have no knowledge of this world, get it? and besides death is only the begining..........
 

lucifix

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
Nov 3, 2001
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you need to make fucking smaller posts cactus.........

i dont think you understood the above statement at all. when im dead im dead, in death there is nothing, i will have no knowledge of what is happening on this earth that is why i dont care. yes i wish my son the best and hope this shitty worl d is a better place when he becomes an adult. got it?

you said somthing about impaling babies or somthing.........well i honestly feel you SHOULD be allowed ro do whatever the hell you want to, no matter how cruel. besides it would be those babies parents that should protect them and NOT the govenments butll**** rules.............
 

Claw

Weird little hermit on dried frog pills
Nov 3, 2001
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Originally posted by lucifix
a little motto of mine: i dont listen to god, i dont listen to my parents, so ill be damned if i lsten to anyone else.........

I dont know why but thats kinda bull$hit...
 

lucifix

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
Nov 3, 2001
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Originally posted by Claw


I dont know why but thats kinda bull$hit...
uh, why? you are suppose to have the utmost respect for god and your parents, right? so if you dont have enough respect for them to abide by their rules, then why would you abide by anothers rules????
 

lucifix

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
Nov 3, 2001
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i dont give a shit if you fuckers like me or not! i am not here to make friends! and as long as this is a FREE(yea right)country i will voice my goddamn opinion as often as i want as loud as i want and to whoever i fucking want!
 

Cactus

The Evil Spatula
Mar 19, 2000
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i'm sorry reading is a chore for you, and i'm sorry you have a hard time understanding cohesive thought.

but don't you think that maybe, perhaps, there's just a chance that your children will be alive long after you're dead? and their children? should we f*ck them too? blow up the world? let them inherit ash? i'm sorry if htat's where you're coming from, then there's no room for intelligent intellectual discussion, merely grovelling by the galactically stupid.

you sit here arguing ideals, sure, the babies parents SHOULD protect them, people SHOULD protect thmselves from bullies, but you're all talk, you're rhetoric. sure the jews SHOULD have stood up to their NAZI overlords, right? and the fact that they didn't, makes them cowards that should have been gassed. and babies, oh what if their parents DONT" protect them? dont' we see enough examples of that in this country? kids being abandoned? who stands up for them? who stands up for hte disenfranchised? you only think about yourself, i've maintained this, you're selfish, arrogant, and everything that is wrong with humanity.

yes let's all go put babies on f*cking spikes now. f*cking idiot.

oh and don't participate in a flame war if you're not willing to read long posts. if multi-syllibic words bother you so much you never should have responded, you responded because you wanted your opinion heard, because you like the sound of your own voice. but it's again irresponsible to respond and then ignore everyone else's posts because tehy're too long. when people talk about moral degradation they're talking about the degradation of values, of tolerance, of in its essence, human arrogance and vanity, of the sheer irresponsibility of man, and we see them none more apparent than in you.

yes, babies on spikes.
 

Cactus

The Evil Spatula
Mar 19, 2000
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Originally posted by lucifix
i dont give a shit if you fuckers like me or not! i am not here to make friends! and as long as this is a FREE(yea right)country i will voice my goddamn opinion as often as i want as loud as i want and to whoever i fucking want!


there you go again, the country is free, but you don't value that do you? as long as it is free to you, that's it, f*ck everybody else, f*ck your children, and those people who come after you, none of them matter, only you. true to your irresponsible nature.
 

lucifix

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
Nov 3, 2001
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Originally posted by Cactus



there you go again, the country is free, but you don't value that do you? as long as it is free to you, that's it, f*ck everybody else, f*ck your children, and those people who come after you, none of them matter, only you. true to your irresponsible nature.
close, no one matters except me and my immediate family.........
 

Claw

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Originally posted by lucifix
uh, why? you are suppose to have the utmost respect for god and your parents, right? so if you dont have enough respect for them to abide by their rules, then why would you abide by anothers rules????

Blah. That's your Christian education speaking. You asked b4 why you should listen to anyone if you don't listen to your parents. Simple. Other people might have something more sensible to say. Might. But you'll never know if you don't listen.

I, too, have been given a Christian education although my parents aren't quite "believing" themselves. They just thought I should hear it and decide myself; besides, they agree with a few of the more sensible things Christianity has to offe, like "Thou shalt not kill" etc.
And while I turned my back on the religion itself, I did not become a complete a$$hole :rolleyes:
I have my own rules and by chance they aren't too far from common morality. The problem I have with socitety isn't its morality but the people's unwillingness to try and live up to the virtues they supposedly believe in.

As for parents protecting their children and not the government - dumbass.
That's the whole point of a government. It's an institutionalization of the people's will. So it makes sure everyything is done what the people want to be done and how they want it done (in theory), so don't have to worry about everything themselves. Same for butchers, shoemakers, etc. They all take care of your wishes in a way. If you had to do everything yourself, you wouldn't do any of it very good. So you have other people doing it for you, a specialist for every thing.
 

lucifix

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
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ya know if the world was in adifferent state at the moment i think you all would be more willing to understand what i say, but as of now your bullshit pride is getting the best of you.......