UT2004's devastated community and UT2007's future

PsychoMoggieBagpuss said:

[edit]Foiled damn it, he has his tinfoil hat on!

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NOES!!!

We would've got away with it, too, if it weren't for those meddling kids and their stupid dog...

Well anyway, just to go back to this:

Hal said:

I can't believe that thread got deleted (I actually posted in it).

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And now you have a taste of why.

These threads generally draw one honest complaint and any number of raving psychotics with axes to grind. And given that the population of INA has a high percentage of raving psychotics, the mods over there are usually pretty quick with the lock.

Well, thank God that's over anyway.

naliking2 said:

... Why in 3 years have they not addressed the problem, why would Gamespy who has known about the problem for a very long time not fix their site to filter out cheating bots and demo players like www.csports.net ...

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*eh* The UT-series is for all intents and purposes the only multiplayer-game that can have bots on-line.
As a result no stats-processing site didn't even need to know that players could be bots.

Second problem : the bots only use +/- 255 different names (UT had even fewer names as the limit was at 32 bots). Players have thousands of different names. So any stat-site that counts number of players by name will see more humans even *if* Epic decided to show bots on their master-serverlist.
All any stat-site would have to do is simply eliminate all the default botnames from the list of playernames returned by the masterserver.

Third problem : bots don't cheat, players do ...

Fourth problem : bots are players ... so a site quoting stats for the number of *players* should be counting bots as well unless they explicitly stated that players ought to be human-controlled avatars in games.

5th problem :
there's lies, damned lies and then there's statistics
Anyone with even a bit of know-how of statistics knows how easy it is to manipulate the results to show whatever you want them to show. This works for both Epic/Gamespy as well as people inventing conspiracy theories like kingtroll.

btw :
units sold - (number of players on-line) = number of people that could be playing the game off-line or in a lan-environment
Of course that's ignoring the *beeps* that use the warez-version.

Never mind that just because people don't play on-line they aren't aware of the internet and/or the various mods.

JaFO said:

eh* The UT-series is for all intents and purposes the only multiplayer-game that can have bots on-line.
As a result no stats-processing site didn't even need to know that players could be bots

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Not true. quake 3, counterstrike have bots online and how does that have anything to do with UT99 not counting bots and then suddenly UT2003 counts them. You just reinforced the point that Epic used the ignorance of stat sites, in order to fool them.

JaFO said:

Second problem : the bots only use +/- 255 different names (UT had even fewer names as the limit was at 32 bots). Players have thousands of different names. So any stat-site that counts number of players by name will see more humans even *if* Epic decided to show bots on their master-serverlist.
All any stat-site would have to do is simply eliminate all the default botnames from the list of playernames returned by the masterserver.

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Once again you just proved my point (even though filtering by botnames is not a solution, and not as good as filtering by 0 ping methods). Filtering is not that difficult and www.csports.net now filters them, gamespy.com refuses to do so probably because they know it will damage UT2004.

Anyway I'm leaving this forum until UT2007 draws closer ....

-- NaliKing --

Discord said:

Well, thank God that's over anyway

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You don't have to thank me

PsychoMoggieBagpuss said:

Yes I admit it. Epic paid me a whole crap load of money to send naliking to coventry because they were threatened by his views that are the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
It was abso-bloody-loutly 100% nothing to do with the fact that I had gotten bored of reading 88 posts of repetitive drivel

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I knew it was most likely you who abused his admin priveleges. It was just a matter of deducing which admin had the lowest Intelligent Quotient . If you want to learn how to moderate I suggest you use Hal as an example. He probably does not like me and likes what I have to say even less, but he is not really threatened by it and is willing to carry on a proper discussion. I have less than 90 posts in my entire post history here and you have made thousands of posts. This, combined with your behaviour, is clearly an indication of someone who does not have a life outside the Unreal Game forums and does not live in reality. It's no wonder you see criticism of the game as a personal attack against yourself. The only reason to keep you around here is maybe your avatar

You don't here me repeatedly saying the game sucks. Rather I point out evidence which indicates the majority of gamers just don't like these games. There is nothing wrong with repeating the same tune as long as there are people willing to listen. If you don't like it, you don't have to listen. Using your admin priveleges to satisfy your own personal agenda is just plain silly.

Goodbye and Good riddance
-- Naliking --

Hey! Be carefull there Moggie. We would want the truth getting out and making a mess all over the pace now would we.

I seriously thought that guy could've turned round to something sensible eventually. I'm astounded that his paranoid conspiracy theories and his manner of mindlessly repeating his opinions and rewording them as facts and even rewording other people to shoddily piece together and argument, actually got even worse. We all told him right? He could've learnt how to debate properly a dozen times from this thread i think. I think he was lucky to go unbanned so long.

Out of interest were his posts actually hidden? Or was that another conspiracy? I can see 'em just fine. Tragically.

(Edit- Now i've seen him, now for the second time try to get "The last Word" in i'm 99% sure this guy has got to be a [mygot] member, there's just no rational, sane human being who'd behave like this otherwise.)

@ Naliking - We tried to listen to you but didn't have a point and you still don't, you lack all of the evidence that you claim to have because you have none. Simply using words like "undeniable" doesn't make something true. UT2004 IS a popular game, you want to argue, find a different topic you know something about and do it somewhere else, even i'm losing my patience with you now.

ruleofnali said:

is clearly an indication of someone who does not have a life outside the Unreal Game forums and does not live in reality.

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Hahahahahahahahahaha

You're so far from the truth it's unbelievable.
Then again that does kind of fit with the rest of your post history so game on.
May I also draw your attention to the ToU?

ruleofnali said:

There is nothing wrong with repeating the same tune as long as there are people willing to listen.

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See thats the main point isn't it, you post, everyone else posts telling you you're talking bollocks. However through your (rather warped) perspective their views aren't valid as yours is the only one that counts.

ruleofnali said:

Anyway I'm leaving this forum until UT2007 draws closer ....

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You keep saying you're leaving but you keep coming back? Do you need some help finding the door or something

PMB, I guess he means every other day, considering that every other day is a day where UT2007 draws closer.

Well, as long as I have a hard time getting a slot on my favorite servers, I'd be hard-pressed to say this game is dead.

Without reading through the other 3 pages... why is it that everyone says the UT2004 community is dead? I always see assloads of people on at all times of the day.

Please show me how the community "died".

Idren said:

Without reading through the other 3 pages... why is it that everyone says the UT2004 community is dead? I always see assloads of people on at all times of the day.

Please show me how the community "died".

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Well according to naliking, you're ass would need to be HUUUGE only to serve the multitude of BOTS that make up the actual community.

Otherwise, that ass would be small and only have humans in it.

Dunno about you, I'm not crazy about assloading.

Third problem : bots don't cheat, players do ...

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LIES!! LIIIIIIEESS!!!

Clearly, you have never played Xan on godlike.

rulerofNali said:

Not true. quake 3, counterstrike have bots online and how does that have anything to do with UT99 not counting bots and then suddenly UT2003 counts them. You just reinforced the point that Epic used the ignorance of stat sites, in order to fool them.

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CS has bots on-line ?
I guess you're referring to CS:S or something similar, because if CS had something like bots in Beta 6 they certainly were aimbots and not true bots.

Besides you're only proving my point : bots in all these games were separate entities from players. Therefor it was pretty easy to check for humans.
In UT2kx players and bots are the same thing in the game, except for the fact that bots have a brain controlling their avatars. Since the (stat)servers are not interested in merely counting idiots on-line ...

I'd even argue that because stat-sites need stats to function it is in their own interest to count non-human players, because they can generate far more stats that way. As a result it's Gamespy & CSports that are cheating.

Once again you just proved my point (even though filtering by botnames is not a solution, and not as good as filtering by 0 ping methods). ...

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If Epic really wanted to fool stat-sites then they'd made sure bots had non-zero pings as well
Heck ... they'd probably would have made sure the game could generate an infinite number of names for bots (which is pretty easy as my utility proves).

btw : there are mutators out there that give non-zero pings to bots on servers.
They also make the bots capable of trash-talking to a certain degree.

Besides ... the only reason most people on-line even notice bots is if they are using the server as a chat-room.

I'd also suggest you avoid buying UT2k7 if you hate bots that much, because they'll become even more human-like in the next-generation.

// CyMek
Ok I'll admit ... bots cheat, but they do so to give us poor humans a chance of beating them. Without cheats they'd have godlike aim and situational awareness ...

JaFO said:

If Epic really wanted to fool stat-sites then they'd made sure bots had non-zero pings as well
Heck ... they'd probably would have made sure the game could generate an infinite number of names for bots (which is pretty easy as my utility proves).

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It was mentioned earlier as a joke that maybe Epic is now planning this for UT2007. I doubt they would do that because if it was discovered (and it would be discovered), that would be considered fraud and it would reveal their intention to make it look like they have a popular game on their hands. Kind of like the "Hot Coffee" scandal with Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto. Rockstar may have a hard time denying they put in that "porn" scene into the game because it is hidden in the game, but it is in there.

UT2004 is a good game to me, and I don't care if not many people are playing it. Yes, it seems this game is being ignored by most players even though it is a very well known game. That just means people generally don't like it, but that will not stop me from playing it. I will admit that I hate having to spend several minutes trying to find a server not filled with bots. If I wanted to play bots I would be playing offline.

I'm just amazed at how few players this game really has and it is amazing that the number of players is so low, but Epic sure has done a great job into tricking the press into believing this game is one of the most popular online shooters. Ah well I'll still play this game anyways.

Is it really that difficult to find a server with real people on it?

(I'm genuinely curious -- I don't play online that often...)

Captain Kewl said:

Is it really that difficult to find a server with real people on it?

(I'm genuinely curious -- I don't play online that often...)

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It's not hard at all - there are a ton of people on all the time, any time of the day.

Servers with stupid mutators, race maps, trial maps, crap maps, Face Deck only, bright skins and so on is which ruined online play.