Proof of Alien Life?
- Thread starter GRAF1K
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I mean it's existence here proves its existence in the universe.
And then yerp, what NRG says.
The whole topic of discussion is life that isn't here, not life anywhere in the universe. That seems depressingly obvious but I don't know how else to say it.
Granting you the unproved and undefined assumption that 'the universe is truly infinite', there is no reason to think that every possible condition will be expressed within the universe. There could be endless expanses of the same dead nothingness.
If you mean 'the universe is truly infinite' as equivalent to 'the universe will continue to expand indefinitely' (rather than 'the universe already extends infinitely in all directions' as addressed above) there is still no particular reason to think that the conditions on Earth have been or will be repeated. And if they were, there is no reason to think that such conditions would persist.
If I'm unintelligible forgive me; writing code all day does that to a person.
Granting you the unproved and undefined assumption that 'the universe is truly infinite', there is no reason to think that every possible condition will be expressed within the universe. There could be endless expanses of the same dead nothingness.
If you mean 'the universe is truly infinite' as equivalent to 'the universe will continue to expand indefinitely' (rather than 'the universe already extends infinitely in all directions' as addressed above) there is still no particular reason to think that the conditions on Earth have been or will be repeated. And if they were, there is no reason to think that such conditions would persist.
If I'm unintelligible forgive me; writing code all day does that to a person.
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even if the universe is not "infinite," it is still so incomprehensibly vast that the odds are drastically in favor of there being intelligent life somewhere other than here.
as others have said; the fact that we exist is not so much proof of aliens as it is proof that life will arise given the right conditions and time. and those conditions do not even have to be the kind that supports human life. we have seen biologic life growing in the hottest, darkest, deepest and most isolated environments on Earth. not all life needs sun or water for instance. as such, life throughout the universe wouldn't even have to follow the "laws" that apply to human development.
again, the fact that conditions on Earth were right and stable long enough to support human life is nearly undeniable evidence that other sentient life must have occurred in another part of the universe (given the sum total of space, matter, and time that has existed before humans). the Earth and our own galaxy represent such a small percentage of the total matter and energy in the universe that it's downright silly to believe life hasn't formed elsewhere.
as others have said; the fact that we exist is not so much proof of aliens as it is proof that life will arise given the right conditions and time. and those conditions do not even have to be the kind that supports human life. we have seen biologic life growing in the hottest, darkest, deepest and most isolated environments on Earth. not all life needs sun or water for instance. as such, life throughout the universe wouldn't even have to follow the "laws" that apply to human development.
again, the fact that conditions on Earth were right and stable long enough to support human life is nearly undeniable evidence that other sentient life must have occurred in another part of the universe (given the sum total of space, matter, and time that has existed before humans). the Earth and our own galaxy represent such a small percentage of the total matter and energy in the universe that it's downright silly to believe life hasn't formed elsewhere.
I'm very eager to learn of any future findings of spitzer and the James webb telescope. Hopefully they will discover more blue planets, similar in size, weight, the right composition to sustain any lifeforms etc. For now it's mainly gas giants.
Look how fortunate our planet is. At the right distance of a yellow star, protected by the large planet Jupiter which attracts dangerous projectiles which could destroy us (shoemaker levy in 94 f.e.), enough water to sustain life and a moon which prevents earth from wobbling too much.
And if we ever happen to stumble upon a new "earth", just like jack said above me... the distance might be so incredibly huge..
Maybe there is another way to travel the vastness of the universe, something we just can't understand yet. Or overlooking it. Because right now, we're so confined in our "small" solar system. And even here, the possibilities to explore are very limited.
Heck, it took voyage 33 years to reach the edge of the solar system (heliosheath right?).
As for these fossilized bacteria, I really hope it's genuine.
Look how fortunate our planet is. At the right distance of a yellow star, protected by the large planet Jupiter which attracts dangerous projectiles which could destroy us (shoemaker levy in 94 f.e.), enough water to sustain life and a moon which prevents earth from wobbling too much.
And if we ever happen to stumble upon a new "earth", just like jack said above me... the distance might be so incredibly huge..
Maybe there is another way to travel the vastness of the universe, something we just can't understand yet. Or overlooking it. Because right now, we're so confined in our "small" solar system. And even here, the possibilities to explore are very limited.
Heck, it took voyage 33 years to reach the edge of the solar system (heliosheath right?).
As for these fossilized bacteria, I really hope it's genuine.
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Yerp. But I mean obviously life is something that does exist, and if it's on this planet then I think personally it's more logical to assume that out of the - I don't know - 40 billion planets in this galaxy alone, at least a few more have life. I don't know, if even just 100 million of those planets are in the habitable zone of their system things, it's still more likely that there is life than not. On some of them.
And that's just this galaxy, out of the 300 billion others. Or whatever amount there is.
Stew?
Obviously schmoes can't say for sure. But personally I am sure. so
Who says the same conditions as ours are needed to sustain life?
Our understanding of biology is limited to what we have here on earth.
Maybe there is a constant which needs to be applied for any life to develop throughout the universe. Maybe similar conditions are needed in any other cases. But maybe you're right, it might be very different in other planetary systems.
Who's to say indeed :/
The vastness of the universe increases the number of places to put our imagined Earth 2.0, but it doesn't solve the problem that we made it up in the absence of any positive data. In other words, a larger closet does not increase the probability of bogeymen.
We could find basically what we're looking for and later say we were right (if we kept the parameters vague enough). But we've no particular reason to think we will make such a discovery, nor should we feel as though we knew it all along if we do.
We could find basically what we're looking for and later say we were right (if we kept the parameters vague enough). But we've no particular reason to think we will make such a discovery, nor should we feel as though we knew it all along if we do.
People ought to be careful of the words they use when discussing things like this. Proof is not the same as evidence. But having said that, we are able to measure the extent at which life can endure and flourish in terrestrial inhospitablies. Surely if ecosystems can thrive along deep sea vents (as alien to this concept of "ideal conditions for life" as any number of interstellar places I can imagine) than there is certainly an argument to be made for this idea that proof of life here means that it is possible elsewhere.
Otherwise we can only look to what we know. We've got to look for planets in Goldilocks zones and search for the kind of conditions for life that we're familiar with. Even a layman knows that these are very limited means for study despite such vast probabilities.
Otherwise we can only look to what we know. We've got to look for planets in Goldilocks zones and search for the kind of conditions for life that we're familiar with. Even a layman knows that these are very limited means for study despite such vast probabilities.
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But we ourselves are the boogeymen in the closet? It seems like you're just arguing that we have no reason to believe that we'll find a highly evolved form of life. Why are we insufficient evidence? Depending on how you believe organisms are created, we're bound to believe there are other boogeymen in the closet and we can at least hope to bump into one in the dark.
i think this entire discussion has gone upside down face to be honest
from what i have read we are all saying the same thing, some of us with more polysyllabic words than others -
apart from Graf1k - i am convinced he's on crack
from what i have read we are all saying the same thing, some of us with more polysyllabic words than others -
apart from Graf1k - i am convinced he's on crack
No, we aren't -- that's my whole bloody point. We're bound to believe that there is life on Earth because we've evidence for it. The rest is speculation, and I'm not bound to believe that life exists in more than one spot simply because there are so many spots. What sort of science is that?
speculation based on very high probability.
there is such a thing as scientific speculation based on prior established theory.
it's also the science of common sense.
c'mon Grafik. stop playing devils advocate and admit you believe in aliens just like everybody else.
The big bang tells us it's not infinite. You can't expand something that is infinite unless that thing is a balloon. The universe is a balloon and the big bang is someone blowing air into the balloon making it bigger. The balloon is infinite because it has no start and no end, it's just round.
In a sense we could be approaching this from opposite but equally valid points of view. I see planet after planet that isn't Earth and doesn't have life, so the hypothesis 'every planet that isn't Earth doesn't have life' is what I'm working with for now. And for your part, you seem to be operating on 'one out of a few planets we've examined closely has life; at this rate there is almost surely another life-containing planet given an unfathomable number of planets'. My instincts tell me that this is Earth-biased thinking, but I can't pin down a solid argument against it. I award you one point for making me reconsider.
Just promise me you will never say this again so long as you may live: