Ok, i was going to do all your posts but i simply grew tired and i;ve said exactly the same thing in the last 6 posts or so anyway.
Yes your posts have been a positive sign of maturity, your well founded and factually based and especilally in-formative writing has enlightened us all.I do love it when 16 years olds say anything about Maturity (i.e. eddy). It is laughable.
My very first post:Teamwork will no work on the pubs.
Now don't give me that Teamwork doesn't work on publics BS as i've experienced it myself.The only few good games of CS i';ve ever had were wen CS was still new and most people didn't know about their kills being counted. You'd see people covering eachother. Terrorists guarding hostages, CT's escorting FB-ing rooms for eachtother etc. Ofcourse as soon as they found out they got points for kills and were ranked on that... down the drain it all went.
Scoring should be based on a combination of teamwork and accuracy.
At the end of the game it'll be one team congratulating the other on their good tactics/excellent teamwork/smart moves whatever. Rather then mr 1337W4nK3r spamming his score.
Another example, and i can think of many more.Best game of CS i've ever had lasted 15 seconds, we planned the round before, got into position and on my mark everybody went in at once at different points. It was almost like a real CT action, didn't lose anybody in our team and all the 's were down within those 8 seconds of action (7secs to get into place).
Here you said it yourself and I've said exactly the same:You forum junkies just don't get it. Those who admin servers see this first hand. If we try and force people to play a certain style then they will leave. You cannot enforce team play. You can suggest it only.
Now note the following words D I S C O U R A G E, discourage E N C O U R A G E, encourage. Now if you take a good look at these two words you will note that I did not say Force, you will note that in fact I said D I S C O U R A G E and E N C O U R A G E.Now how can you discourage people just going off alone and trying teamwork instead? Exactly by scrapping the frags. By basing the score on the eachievement as a team you ecourage people to play like a team.
Note: P R O M O T E, promote. As in E N C O U R A G E, a specific kind of behaviour. Again note that they do not spell F O R C E, force.I'm not saying you can't have your score i'm saying the score should not be based on kills. It should be based on team behaviour rather then kills. Quite simply because as stated before kills promote going off on your own and get as many befrore the others "steal" them. You are competing against your own "teammates" while in a team game yu should be competing against the other team instead.
And again. P R O M O T E, proomote. By now even you will have seen that again the word Force has not been used. It is about P R O M O T I N G a certain behaviour.And that should be promoted, simply be scrapping the frags and basing score on a combination of other factors such as survival, accuracy, teamwork, rounds won, rounds lost etc.
And strangely enough mine coincide with INF's. To make iNF the number one realitic Team game. Which requires the removal of frags since frags are the mortal enemy of teamwork or any other form of play exept deathmatch per my many examples but i shall repeat them all the same:We all want to have fun. We just have different ideas which way this Mod should go.
The only few good games of CS i';ve ever had were wen CS was still new and most people didn't know about their kills being counted. You'd see people covering eachother. Terrorists guarding hostages, CT's escorting FB-ing rooms for eachtother etc. Ofcourse as soon as they found out they got points for kills and were ranked on that... down the drain it all went.
Best game of CS i've ever had lasted 15 seconds, we planned the round before, got into position and on my mark everybody went in at once at different points. It was almost like a real CT action, didn't lose anybody in our team and all the 's were down within those 8 seconds of action (7secs to get into place).
I can think of more if you are still incapable of understanding.That is the same reason why for instance in The Opera you got guys running around with shotguns. Because you get a lot of kills. While in The opera getting kills is basically irrelevant the only way you are going to score well is by using style but since they see kills they don't care even if they end up on the bottom of the scoring list as long as they have the most kills.
This led to people abandoning style and simply going for kills (even though you can get up to 45 times the cash (which is what ranking in The Opera is based on) for a single kill if it's stylish).
So within a week or two you didn't see any rolls anymore no people wall jumping, sliding or any other cool moves. Just people running around with shotguns or dual desert eagles trying to get the most kills.
Team play exist in clan matches.
Yes it does whioch brings me to this point supporting the fact that frags do not belong in a game like INF.
Now take a look why in clans actually exist. Because they want to be the best AS A TEAM. Individual frags mean nothing, all that counts is the teams result in the end. The most important player in a clan match is not nescessarilly the one with the most frags.
Effectively in clan matches frags do not exist. So that should be what publics are strifing for since this is after all a TEAM game.
It has been said before. You want team play then join a clan.Here you are the one forcing (F O R C I N G, note the difference with E N C O U R A G I N G and P R O M O T I N G) ME to do something. Something which in fact should not be nescessary since infiltration is a TEAM game. Guess what the primary goal is... yes strangely enough it is TEAMplay. That means that the MAIN form of playing should be TEAM-based.
Maybe you are missing my point. but since this is a TEAM game it is exactly what public games should be like. TEAMwork should be the 1st goal everything else is secondary.Look those words again: E N C O U R A G E, and P R O M O T E. See? still no Force.I'm not talking about controlling, nor have i ever said anything about controlling players. All I want is to uncourage em to play "proper" (IE as a team) and this can simply be attained by discouraging or simply NOT promoting them to compete against eachother within the team.
And what am I doing? I'm pointing out my opinion on the matter of scoring and why the current system wont work to reach INF's goals IE to become a realistic TEAM game.It was stated to not tell Warren and company how to run this game.
Well if you don't like it then don't put up your "expensive" server. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. I'm sure we could find another person or company to host a server. Especially when 286 comes out many new people will come bringing many new servers. You will not be missed.I say if I was Warren and the INF company I would want to know all this feedback. Especially those who are supporting the INF communities by putting up expensive servers.
We are paying for the hardware and T3 lines to support everyone's online addiciton. Don't forget that people.Yup ofcourse that means that you should have instant controll... maybe you are forgetting that this mod is not yours and that you have no more to say then me on how the game is developped.
You have no more to say then me or any new guy to INF.
Well if they don't like it they can play another game or come here and put up some arguements which you have completely failed to do. Your only arguement so far has been that you run a server. Well whooptie doo.So the previous MUF bashing is way out of line. I see very little appreciation for all the clans who front the cost so you can play online.
Hoe does me running or not running a server in validate my opinion? please elaborate. Just because you run a server does not mean you have more say in the development of this game.
In fact if were going that way I'd outweigh you since I beta test this game, now i'm not using that to in-validate your points now am i? No I gave example after example of games where counting frags killed the teamwork on-line. And you so far have not come up with even one point where counting frags has improved teamwork. In fact you have not come up with any positive points frags have besides the fact that you like them.
And so do I, I wnat to klnow how much I am helping the TEAM And this can be done by another system then frags. per my previous examples.I think personlized scoring has value. I like to know who is playing well and if I am kicking some ass or not.
How is that a compromise? And on top of this I've allready give examples of Why FRAGS DO NOT WORK!!! Oh and here I gave a example of how you could measure your value to the team without using frags.I think the scoring system did favor the cqb'ers and why not? Those are the dogs in the trenches fighting it out. The snipers got less points for a reason, lower risk. Maybe the scoring could go one point for one kill as a compromise.
Oh wait I forgot you don't even want this game to be an enjoyable experience for people who "do not put up expensive servers". or are not in clan matches.I didn't say you where but kills should not be the basis of teamwork. There are many ways to determine who has been the biggest asset to the team besides frags.
IMO score should be based on mix of the various other parameters. So say ((teamwork+accuracy)/2xrounds won)-100 point per TK (note that teamwork and accuracy are in percentages so 100 points is not that hard to get your hands on.
WAHAHAHAHAHAHA, uhm ok lets get real here. I have given many arguements on why teamwork cannot exist in conjuction with frags and your entire counter floats on the fact that "you set up an expensive server".You have not given a strong arguement on any topic yet.
Let's see about not putting up any points, lets see how many you put up...
Any answer from you? nope.And meat sac i have teh same arguments simply because it is true. Could you please point me to a single game that has frags and at the same time has good teamwork on public servers?
guess what... there are none.
Any takers? nope.oh and point out a single example where i did not state the simple truth on how frags affect players in any of my above points. Good luck, you'll need it.
Still nothing, not a single reason why frags should be kept other then the fact that you like em.meat sac, please point out the "posive" effect frags have on teamwork and please do not place them in a utopic environment.
I did not suggest this, you were the one that stated that you in some reason were superiour because you put up your server or whatever. I on the otherhand am incvolved in the development of this mod. No beta testers no mod, no mod nothing to waste your server on. You stated this noww you finish this.Your suggestion that beta is more importand that running servers for EVERYONE (including you) is ridiculous and selfish.
You clearly have an agenda with this mod and it is obvious you are in the minority. Sorry to state the obvious but I feel you need the help.Guess what my "agenda" is, to make this the number one TEAM-modeification for Unreal Tournament... OH NO... THE SHAME!!!!!!!Provided I could get enough people to support this this would by your definition automatically mean that they should obey my wishes? Because after all I am with the majority.Quite simple really. If I and my x-com buddies would go into WWIIOL and started demanding UFO's should we get it just because we are with more people? Uhm I don't think so since that is not in line with the games goals.
In fact I think the majority wanted the M60, so i guess that is what the team HAS to work on now?
Maybe you should read what has been said and see who is not comprehending what.My interaction with you leaves me incredibly unimpressed. No wonder your are attacked everytime you post. You are also proving to not have the level of comprehension to understand all points discussed. You go off on tangents and send everyone spinning.
Yeah ofcourse All my 3000 posts were made in this thread to defend myself for your incmprehensible levels of non-recognitionI did see you online ONCE. And if that is any indication of your ability then I am correct in assuming you are not good at this game and thus are so defensive (I.e. see your naseau inducing post count).
If only you had done so.If you think you can discuss any topic like a clear minded lucid individual then I will welcome it, but so far you are not capable of such. So I will cease any further pointless arguing with you. You simply just don't get it.
See the X-com example.quote:
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Originally posted by The_Fur
That will mean that eventually they will spill over to the Team-play servers and ruin those as well. Simply because they are the masses.
Anyway I can't restate this enough. INF is a TEAMgame, so it should be about teamwork. You won't get that by making it optional.
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Fur, proving my point about forcing a certain gaming style. If the masses want it, who are you (one extremist) to tell everyone how to play?
You have still not brought up a single valid arguement supported bty any sort of facts or actual reasoning why we should keep frag while I have brought up reasons why NOT to keep frags. Youer entire arguement floats on the fact that you like em, oh and ofcourse the masses (whoch are irrelevant simply because they adapt to the game, not the other way around fortunately. WElse we'd still be playing pong). Oh yeah and your precious server.And your last attempt at responding to my post was futile at best. I do not NORMALLY take the time to go back and hit the little quote button or read more posts you direct to others. I was responding things directed at me. I don't feel the need to repost your nonsensical dribble anyway. You are simply the most thick headed individual I have ever had the displeasure of conversing with. I say bring it to the servers! and put your money where your foot, err mouth is
Haha, Fur your reasoning simply makes me laugh. Infantile mentality is what I would describe you as. You can make up any bullsh*t reasoning you have to justify your closed-mindedness. You do not control how this mod is played and never will. Chew on that for a while when you are playing with your bots offline.
"." i mean wtf? you are the one not even trying to put up an arguement.
Oh so now you are the self appointed voice for everybody else as well? Anyway I don't care how YOU play, however you will not be encouraged in your teamwork raping ways by frags.The rest of us will continue to play this mod the way we see fit no matter how much you post.
For the record you have not disproven any comments I have stated. You are the one who continues to taste feet.
... could you start at the beginning and read the first 500 or so lines? I have disproven EVERY single "arguement" you put up while you have not even attempted to counter any of mine.
as my friendly weird white roundfaced forum animal allready pointed out i did not railroad anything down anybodies throat. Oh and I pointed this out in the first half of this text as well. Just in case you missed it... AGAIN.Fur, you make my arguement for me everytime you open your mouth.
"I'm not talking about controlling, nor have i ever said anything about controlling players. All I want is to uncourage em to play "proper" (IE as a team) and this can simply be attained by discouraging or simply NOT promoting them to compete against eachother within the team." Fur
Again Fur your definition of "proper" play should not be railroaded down the throats of others. Like you love to do.
"."My post count is getting embarrassinly high, almost 30 so I will not post anymore. I would hate to rack up a count of 3000+ like some people. That is too much opinion ramming for anyone person. Cya online for a fun game of TDM. Come join the fun Fur.
your opinion is yours Fur and means nothing to me. I won't lose any sleep knowing you don't like or agree with me.
Damn this wasn't even amusing you could at least have put up some sort of arguement.
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