What U2XMP was initially planned to be...

  • Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
4,042
1
0
Lithuania
Not many noticed my research on the Mutator thread, so I'll reorder my thoughts and post how it was intended to be thoroughly.

Unreal II XMP as it was initially intended to be very different from what you have now. The gameplay was absolutely different, like a whole new gametype. So here's a description of how it was intended to be (and how it could be remade, though that would be hard to make):

Description:
A very unique gametype that requires good teamwork and especially strategy.

Overview:
The gametype's objective is to find and register an amount of Artifacts hidden by the Level Designer, and stop the enemy team from doing the same.

There are (the usual) three classes: Light Ranger, Medium Tech and Heavy Gunner. They have different amount of armour on (Gunner being the most armoured) and have different speeds (Gunner being the slowest). The weapons used are from Unreal II, but not restricted to them. All classes carry a Dispersion Pistol and a Combat Assault Rifle. Classes start with these unique weapons: Light - Magnum Pistol, Medium - Shotgun, Heavy - Magnum Pistol. Light players can't pick up Grenade and Rocket Launchers, Medium can't take Sniper Rifles and Heavy can't also take Sniper Rifles.

The game, like U2, is pickup based. That is, to get ammo, you have to take ammo, to get weapons, you have to take weapons.

The most important part of the gametype are the Artifacts. LDs select the number of Artifacts and the team that must get them. He also places the Artifacts where he wants - usually in challenging places, such as the enemy base, near a lava pit, somewhere that you have to mantle to get up etc. Those who manage to get an Artifact must transport it back to the base and register it with the Replicator. That can be done only if the team has at least 800 points of energy. Once an Artifact is registered, the carrier doesn't lose the artifact - instead, he keeps it and gains a special ability: damage reduction, health regeneration, Artifact location (you are shown the way to another artifact), speed or weapon damage. When you have an Artifact in your inventory, you can not take another one.

The Replicator is in the core of your base. It is a computer terminal that is connected to all of your base and it does a few different things:
1. Researches technology. To do this, you have to have enough energy and wait for some time so the research would finish. Researching gives you more technology, ranging from health stations to more vehicles to more weapons to new deployables etc. If something isn't researched, it can't be used, and if it is, it can't go offline unless you are out of all energy.
2. Produces items. There items must be researched first. The Replicator can produce virtually anything it can research - you can order it to make you a vehicle (and dump into a garage), a weapon, ammo pickup, deployable, even a robot or a security camera. They all vary in time that it takes to produce them and the energy consumed.
3. Registers Artifacts. To do that, you have to have at least 800 points of energy.
The Replicator can not do different takes at the same time. That means that you have to e very sensible and decide what your troops need the most now and what you can afford. Only Medium Techs can use the Replicators (except for Artifact registering), so it is essential that your team has at least a single Tech and that it is protected at all times. Replicators can be used by only one person at a time. The Replicators can be damaged - then they are inoperable and needs a Tech to repair it. Even Artifact registering is not possible while the Replicator is damaged.

Another extremely important factor is energy - basically that's your currency. To get it, you have to find Energy Generators that are spread across the map. Then, you must deploy an Energy Relay near the Generator (at most 32 feet far) so it is switched on and starts giving your base energy. An important factor is hiding the relay - the easier it is to see it, the easier it will be for the opponents to destroy. Energy Relays don't have to be monitored all the time - they can heal themselves, however, they consume energy while doing that. Once the energy reaches a certain level, a specific item can be researched, produced or used. All of these actions consume energy, so you can't do a lot at once unless you relay a lot of energy Generators. If a team's energy reaches 0, the team can not gain any more energy (as relays also consume some energy) and can't even respawn, so they lose.

The gametype isn't limited to two teams, although the number of it is decided by LDs. The Red team is Izanagi, the Blue team is Marines, Gold team is Liandri and Green team is Skaarj. The objectives are also decided by LDs - a team might need to register all the artifacts in the map (by killing enemies and taking their artifacts for reregistering), a number of artifacts or a group of artifacts (like one artifact from each enemy base). However, the victory condition also greatly depends on the number of players - if there are 3 on both teams, you can't physically register 4 artifacts.

You don't start with Jet Packs, so early in the game Force Fields are very useful - the enemy must destroy it before going through, they can't jump over. However, you can research the jet pack technology.

Superweapons are also available. They might be available for research or as a pickup, depends on the LD. Security cameras can be attached and will provide a spectating point for defenders - for example, you can put a camera outside the base, see an enemy incoming, place a mine near the door and BOOM! :) Proximity Sensors scan the area for enemies and emit a sound to warn of intruders - that is good if the base has a few entrances. Security robots guard your base. You also have mines, deployable turrets. You decide what vehicles you want to build too. However, LDs can choose to make a neutral vehicle, disable vehicle building at all or allow super vehicles.

So that's about it. You win if you register and keep an amount of Artifacts, if the enemy team(s) lose all their energy or if the timer expires. If the latter happens, your deploy points are disabled so you can't respawn.

What do you think about it? :)
 

Leo(T.C.K.)

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
May 14, 2006
4,794
36
48
They planned it originally that way, yeah..but don't forget the included gametype within Unreal2 is unfinished and bit broken, I dunno if at the E3 alpha it was more finished but it is possible that it was, note that these engine changes have made the scripts drastically change from the original state...so some things here might not be that accurate(I think you were originally able to drop the artifact even etc), what official sources say about it? I remember legend talking about this xmp (when it was meant to be inside, before Atari decided to remove multiplayer etc), it may be on one of these links that were posted in various threads too.
There was a bit about it at certain computer magazine also, I still have that one and I posted some quotes of it some time ago..
And there were no vehicles originally....there were other neat features planned instead as the automatically created weapons and such......
 
Last edited:

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
4,042
1
0
Lithuania
Yes, it's alpha. Yet it's still surprisingly nice as is - XMP was far from being finished then... But it's such a different game! And it even sounds better than the current XMP (which in fact isn't finished as well). Like, losing power is a lot easier in this version, you have to have different abilities to get to different artifacts etc. Also, as it's a part of U2, I'm sure there could be artifacts guarded by things like Araknids or Drakk... Actually, that's what Sirocco was all about.

Talking about E3 - ever checked the Dialog Editor of U2? It seems to have some E3 demo dialogues, and from them it seems that you work against the Marines (probably with Izanagi), and you have to stop them from repairing their vehicles and contacting their ships... Oh, and there are some jokes in those files too ;) Quite vulgar jokes though.

Care to show any of those quotes and other info?

And yes, there were no vehicles, I quite copied the text off from my other post at idea sharing, and didn't care to change everything :) Yet nowadays that system with vehicles could be implemented just as well.

Also, this very nicely explains why you have force fields in U2XMP, even though they are largely useless.
 

takwu

cXp coder Tak®
Feb 5, 2004
614
0
0
www.mif.vu.lt
force fields are useful in tight spaces; the tighter it is, the more it slows down your enemies. And they stop vehicles for the most part.
 

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
4,042
1
0
Lithuania
Is it just me, or would a game as complicated as that take hours? I'm not surprised it was simplified.

It's just you :) Try my XMP-Test map, you'll see you can complete that in 15 minutes. Plus as only one player can replicate, everyone else are after the artifacts. That wouldn't take too long then.

They cost too much energy only because there are so few players. Back in the day, with 16+ players, it wasn't that bad having only 2 gens.

How come?
 

dutch_gecko

Think Pink
Jun 16, 2004
1,882
1
0
www.dutch-gecko.co.uk
It's just you :) Try my XMP-Test map, you'll see you can complete that in 15 minutes.

By "can", do you mean that 15 minutes is the absolute minimum time? Because in our "modern" XMP you "can" finish a game in about a minute.


I'm guessing it would take a while for two reasons - first, you need to spend ages building up an arsenal, since it would be too hard to cap without some proper weapons. Sure, you can try to rush the artis, but the other team will probably do the same so all you get is a dispersion-duel in the middle until some meatier weapons come along. Then when that happens, your opponents will probably spend a long time base-raping your replicator, thus making a capture pretty difficult, if not tedious.

Really, it sounds great and I'd love to play it in some form with a big bunch of players, but it's almost an RTS, and they aren't known for their quick games.
 

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
4,042
1
0
Lithuania
No dutch gecko, I mean that you could finish it in that time on other maps too, although that comes down to LDs. All you need is to plant an Energy Relay, take the artifact and register it. That wouldn't be DP duel - like I've described, you initially start with DP, CAR and Magnum or Shotgun. And you don't have to rely on the Replicator to get weapons - this is pickup based, you take the weapons when you find them, and you take enemy weapons when they die. Plus, the Replicator is quite fast - it takes 5 seconds to research Energy Relay, 120 - Auto Turret, 180 - Security Bot. And that's only research, not production - that one is even faster.
And the Replicator has 1000 health. Techs can repair it with 100 health per second - so it's absolutely impossible to take out the Replicator when someone else is near.
Also, the Replicator works by itself just as well - that's why damaging it can be a good idea. It automatically researches technology and spawns items, there is a queue list which you can edit and let the Replicator work alone. That's basically why only Techs can use them. And that allows you to play it with even one person per team - go find a Grenade Launcher, place an Energy Relay, kill the opponent, take an Artifact, destroy enemy Energy Relay, plant your one, get back to the base, register the artifact, take all those weapons the Replicator spawned and go get the 2nd artifact!

And how come you can finish XMP in a minute? Just like here, you need a Generator, you need it to charge to enough energy, you have to steal an artie from your enemies two times and register it. If it's not RGB, you can't possibly finish it in a minute.

TheIronKnuckle, that's not right. Legend didn't test anything too much - XMP was never complete. They didn't have much time and released it just because a few people really enjoyed making it. Also, the engine changed, so they would have to work a lot harder to port over all the ideas for XMP. Making a CTF+ game is a lot easier - UE2 initially has CTF support. So you can't definitely say that something is better without trying it out.
 

takwu

cXp coder Tak®
Feb 5, 2004
614
0
0
www.mif.vu.lt
Well I think it's a bit of both.

Yes it's true that the released XMP had less features than the original concept mainly due to time constraints, but it's also true that the features that made it to the release were the ones that the developers decided were the "best" ones under the circumstances, both for developing and playing.

Now I am wondering if the quality of XMP's design had something to do with the lack of development resources. It is still above average in terms of learning curve, but not so much that makes it unplayable for new players. If Legend actually had all the time they needed, would it become "too complicated?"
 

Leo(T.C.K.)

I did something m0tarded and now I have read only access! :(
May 14, 2006
4,794
36
48
They decided to change it because they released it as standalone addon and the CTF thing they added because there wasn't ctf avaiable before, only as unused game class.
That's how I see it. Because the multiplayer was completlly scrapped, that's why itwas made like this.
 

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
4,042
1
0
Lithuania
So you're saying that Legend tried to mix all DM, CTF and XMP into one and got U2XMP? Interesting, and might be close to the truth.
Ehh, if I only knew more about coding, I could do something like this :)
 

dutch_gecko

Think Pink
Jun 16, 2004
1,882
1
0
www.dutch-gecko.co.uk
If Legend actually had all the time they needed, would it become "too complicated?"

I definitely think you're on to something here. I regularly attend a large LAN party in my local area, and the original members used to play XMP when it was still a small event and XMP was new. They quickly stopped as new members joined up, since they just couldn't handle having to learn that much for a few games. It's too much info to take in for a weekend (hell the new influx was having trouble understanding UT3 Warfare last week :rolleyes: ).

The original game mode certainly sounds interesting, and I would play it if it ever got some traction, but I don't think it would ever get that traction. It's just so complicated that only a small elite group of players would go to the effort of learning all the foibles of the gametype, and devising the inevitable strategies that go along with that. XMP would have died even younger than it did.
 

GreatEmerald

Khnumhotep
Jan 20, 2008
4,042
1
0
Lithuania
It's not that hard to learn it. Imagine that on RGB: first, you choose your class (tip: choose Tech for the start!). Then, you deploy (tip: press the "fire" key :p ). Then, you go pick up your weapons. Then, you put an Energy Relay near that generator you see there. Then, you go take the artifact that is in the middle. Then, you die (probably). The enemy takes it. Then you go kill him. Repeat, until someone makes it to the base. Then he has some cool special powers, but can't take anything so he just defends an artifact that is in his base. And the other teammate tries to get the other Artifact. Simple as that. You get 2 arties, you win. You get 1, the enemy gets 2, the enemy wins. So the middle artie is the most important.

This type shouldn't be too hard to remake actually, as you already have the base code - Replicator, Energy Relay, weapon pickups etc. in Unreal II. Yet it's till too hard for me (I'm only learning vehicles now).
 

dutch_gecko

Think Pink
Jun 16, 2004
1,882
1
0
www.dutch-gecko.co.uk
For you and me, it's not that hard to learn at all. But consider that most people who play games seem to have trouble with the most basic things.

For example, compare the following:
first, you choose your class (tip: choose Tech for the start!). Then, you deploy (tip: press the "fire" key :p ). Then, you go pick up your weapons. Then, you put an Energy Relay near that generator you see there. Then, you go take the artifact that is in the middle. Then, you die (probably). The enemy takes it. Then you go kill him. Repeat, until someone makes it to the base. Then he has some cool special powers, but can't take anything so he just defends an artifact that is in his base. And the other teammate tries to get the other Artifact. Simple as that. You get 2 arties, you win. You get 1, the enemy gets 2, the enemy wins. So the middle artie is the most important.
Shoot everything that moves

Which is going to be more popular? ;)