UT2007: 11 Things Epic needs to do right.

briach said:

Give me an example of where it makes the game more hitscan dominant

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When the fc launches himself away from you (with minimal health loss) to a distance where hitscan is your only effective attack -- but it's still not effective because of the shield. The fact that charging the primary has no bearing on the effectiveness of the secondary makes this a real cheap getaway. Combine that with relatively small health sacrifice for the launch and forget it. It doesn't make CTF more hitscanny, but it is unbalanced.

ThirtySixBelow said:

The only map where I can see the advantage is killbilly barn where the crap is almost over your head.

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The grass in Killbilly is neither foliage nor meshes that disappear with different world detail settings. It's around all the time and is thus a valid part of the gameplay. Hide in it all you want because it's there for everyone. The grass on, say, Ferris, is foliage and can be turned off. It's just decoration. Don't hide in it unless you're DP.

When the fc launches himself away from you (with minimal health loss) to a distance where hitscan is your only effective attack -- but it's still not effective because of the shield. The fact that charging the primary has no bearing on the effectiveness of the secondary makes this a real cheap getaway. Combine that with relatively small health sacrifice for the launch and forget it. It doesn't make CTF more hitscanny, but it is unbalanced.

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This is the nerfed xloc's fault. No one should be able to move faster than someone with an xloc. Don't look at the shieldgun as a device made to help people runaway. Look at it as a tool to speed up the traversing of wideopen hitscan prone areas, and clearing obstacles with the exchange of health. If the xloc wasn't nerfed, hitscan would be less emphasized. If there wasn't a shieldgun, hitscan would be the only way to win games on commonly played maps.

Turns2Ashes said:

Something that might actually be useful to balance the sniper is a non-instant-hit bullet

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Seriously wtf? You're kidding right?

Bullet10k said:

Seriously wtf? You're kidding right?

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Do you know how easy it is to snipe people from half way across the map with the ridiculous hitscan in ut2k4? People shouldn't be able to do that easy. A projectile like sniper would make it harder to snipe people from a distance. I think it's a great idea.

Anyone who thinks shooting other players farther away with hitscan is harder than shooting them upclose sucks or is ignorant to the game's available game settings, so don't anyone post it.

hal said:

Your last two sentences make no sense.

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If the xloc wasn't nerfed, players would be able to get around the level faster to areas of importance. Usually areas of importance are pretty hectic and cramped(mid-range combat). The more nerfed people's movement is the less time people are able to spend in areas of importance and the more time people are at a distance from eachother. If the xloc was faster, people would be able to get across wideopen areas faster, which would minimize the emphasis of long distanced hitscan.

Now if there wasn't a shieldgun, it would be pure hitscan and suppressively spamming pickups or chokepoints. Why doesn't anyone play CTF with a no shield mutator? I sure there are some no shield mutators that also increase the self damage of shield primary. I dare someone to stick that on BU Vipers and see the result. The biggest problem with ut2k4 is players not knowing how to play, because the gameplay isn't intuitive.

Anyhow, it appears that Epic agrees that the ShieldGun blows because it's gone in UT2007.

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LET THE 10-30 ping HEADSHOT RAPE COMMENCE HF GL

briach said:

Do you know how easy it is to snipe people from half way across the map with the ridiculous hitscan in ut2k4? People shouldn't be able to do that easy. A projectile like sniper would make it harder to snipe people from a distance. I think it's a great idea.

Anyone who thinks shooting other players farther away with hitscan is harder than shooting them upclose sucks or is ignorant to the game's available game settings, so don't anyone post it.

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Yea I know hitting people farther away is a lot easier, but that wasnt my argument. The sniper rifle SHOULD be hitscan (not " 'hitscan' at close range, but projectile at long range"), otherwise it would be stupid really. A better idea to balance the long range hitscan is to make it do LESS damage the farther the opponent is, not only will that balance the long range hitscan, but will also promote more up-close in-your-face fighting which is what their aiming for to bring back that feel.

Why should ut2k7's sniper be hitscan when almost everyother current game's sniper rifle shows projectile characteristics? Hitscan is old and there really isn't a need for it in gaming anymore. A sniper weapon is cool, but there isn't a reason for it to be hitscan. The only games that use hitscan weapons do it because they don't want to spend time coding in complexities that will enrich the game.

Distanced sniper rifle would be less emphasized if it displayed projectile characteristics.

briach said:

Why should ut2k7's sniper be hitscan when almost everyother current game's sniper rifle shows projectile characteristics? Hitscan is old and there really isn't a need for it in gaming anymore. A sniper weapon is cool, but there isn't a reason for it to be hitscan.

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Because UT2k7's sniper shouldn't be like "almost every other current game's sniper", this aint bf2,cs, etc. PLUS, most importantly, the LG is being removed did you forget? So you got only one sniping weapon, and it should be as good as it can get. And lol @ hitscan is old, comon now.

briach said:

The only games that use hitscan weapons do it because they don't want to spend time coding in complexities that will enrich the game.

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How hard can it be to program this "complexities"? Hell, even I can make a mutator for that if I knew UScript, and I'm not even all that of a genius either.

Why don't you make one Bullet10k? Why do you say you can make a mutator if you knew uscript? That's like saying I could be smart if I had brains.

There isn't a reason at all to have a pure hitscan weapon in the next ut.

Balance the game for 10-30 ping.

briach said:

Why don't you make one Bullet10k? Why do you say you can make a mutator if you knew uscript?

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What? Can you seriously not see it? It is SIMPLE PROGRAMMING LOGIC, you dont need to be a genius to know that. And btw, it's not about ME being able to make it, it's the devs. And they could make it in 2 secs, seriously, otherwise they shouldn't even be calling themselves a dev if they cant do such a simple thing, the only hard part would be "by how much", and even that could be solved with a bit of playtesting.

And like I said, balancing the long range sniper by making it do less damage the farther you go, would be much better than balancing it by making it projectile. Projectile sniper is like frikkin using the LG while you have like 120 ping. If you constantly play at it, then you will obviously get better at playing with 120 ping, but that still doesnt change the fact that you miss your target sometimes because you move your mouse directly over your opponent and click (this is called "aim", as opposed to your "lead the shot to where he is going to be"). Man just keep it hitscan already.

Hating on how hitscan dominant the game is, is fine, but saying it should be removed completely, is dumb, instead of suggesting on how you could balance the hitscan out.

i hope someone comes out with an lg mod

I agree on most things, good post DP! The things I don't agree with is the sniper cone and the ini settings. For the sniper/lg/whatever they will have in the game, let it be very accurate. I don't WANT realism in this game and weapons can be balanced without ruining the sniper. For the ini/tweakin, let those that want to use low settings do so. You have no idea about peoples computers and monitors. Myself, I play with a lcd screen and having textures set to high is useless as they still blurs when I move fast. Having them set on low dimishes this problem significantly.

Here's my idea about playtesting: get a group of different player skills together. Some that are completly new to the game, some that are midskilled and some that are really pro. Let them play the game by themselves, together in groups of equal skill and experience and then finaly mix different skilled groups. That way you will cover most situations and can perhaps get an idea of how to balance it.

Sir_Brizz said:

Was it ever confirmed that the Ltg is gone? If so, this is truly a sad day in gaming. The Ltg is a way smarter weapon than a stupid sniper rifle.

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Teh Sniper rifle owns your pitiful lightning gun.

Bring back the UT99 sniper!!!!
That thing rocked hard.

Ltg > SR

Sir_Brizz said:

Was it ever confirmed that the Ltg is gone? If so, this is truly a sad day in gaming. The Ltg is a way smarter weapon than a stupid sniper rifle.

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Agreed 100%. The ltg had something the sniper rifle didn't have, doesn't have and will never have: character.

Hitscan with a lagged trace feels like a 5 min hack, just like momentum completely resetting on wall dodge, the 8 max damage for crush, the instagib player/vehicle contant, and the players simply bouncing off air vehicles.

Hitscan detracts from the game's aesthetics and the fake feeling stops players from feeling totally immersed in the game. Also anyone who plays against people with similar mouse dexterity can confirm that hitscan does nothing for the gameplay. Point clicking people from across the map is bad. Balance the game for 10-30 ping.