JB-Fragtion

G.Lecter · Apr 12, 2006

Finally! $\o/$
This is my third (serious) work. I wanted to work on a relatively simple layout, easy to learn, with not many floors and free of lifttricks, and since I wouldn't be able to make such a thing being good (you know how much Lecter loves overlapping floors and liftjumps...

), I decided to take as base an awesome CTF layout from my buddy Mercen@ry, instead of starting from scratch. :tup:
It has come along as a weekend-work consisting much in adding 5 meshes today and 5 brushes tomorrow. At this stage, almost every part of the map has been edited, in both visuals and layout, trying to keep the feel of the original CTF-Fragtion, but also applying my own theme and balance ideas. Basically, the changes from the original are the scaled-up side rooms (I think JB needs more fighting space than CTF), and a more detailed and contrastful visual theme.

Map features: (Don't read and play! )
- Small-mediumsized map, suitable for 8-10 players.
- Unlike most of JB maps, it has 2 centre rooms. Also 6 more rooms around the main area (2 of them bases), and... ermmm... 2 jails.

- 3 paths that split in 5 and merge in 3 again.
- All weapons available, except the Mini, two 50shields, and a DoubleDamage in the middle.
- A lot of doublejumps, it might take a while getting used to them, but they promise interesting kills and Last Second Saves.

Credits: (At the Moment)
- Of course, thanks to Mercen@ry for letting me take his CTF-Fragtion as base... and for making it.

- Hourences for all his visual stuff (from Idoma mainly).
- SuperApe for the VariableTimedMover.

Screens: (OMG it's brown!)

Download!
MapRaider

G.Lecter · Apr 12, 2006

Beta Worklog

JB-Fragtion2_RC1
Info lost...

JB-Fragtion-SE_Beta2
Info lost...

JB-Fragtion-SE_Beta1
Suggest and report whatever you want. I'd like especially to know your view on this:
- How's the brightness going? Any area/mesh/surface that looks too bright/dark?
- Any place where you can get stuck? I don't care if they're silly, most of them can be blocked.
- Too much/little health/ammo?
- Suggestions for Emitters and Sounds.
- Do you think it's OK that the Amp spawns at the begining of each round?
- The Escape might have a button outside the jail (and another one inside). Where would you place it, RL room, LinkGun room, or maybe on the pipes over the Amp?
- Do you know about any music track (from UT or whatever) that would fit the map better than Rankin's one?

To-do list:
- Jails, Execution, Arena, Escape route.
- Finishing and testing the botpathing.
- Advanced Optimization.
- Visual details, Lightmaps and Emitters.
- AmbientSound.
- Panorama, LoadingScreen, Screenshots & Map Description.

Have fun!

Sjosz · Apr 12, 2006

Awesome! I was so looking forward to seeing this map! Downloading!

Ikkuh · Apr 12, 2006

G.Lecter said:
- All weapons available, except the Mini

awhhh, no mini?

j/k, I will try it in a few hours

It looks sweet and it probably will be a lot of fun

G.Lecter said:
- A lot of doublejumps, it might a while getting used to them, but they promise interesting kills and Last Second Saves.

ooh, nice

The_Head · Apr 12, 2006

Looks = Awesome. Only thing I can think of atm is that the gaps in the flooring where the pipes are, imo they would look better with a mesh texture covering them. Always been a fan of this theme too.
One of the best layouts I have seen, very well set out, good range of levels and a nice combination of tricks too do and general coolness.
Took a look in the editor, lots of triggers, havent tried to work out what you have planned, but it looks like it could be a really cool escape / death.

================================

Brightness seems just right

Didn't find anywhere where you can get stuk in my quick look around.

Not sure on ammo, will have to play a full long match or more.

Yeh keep the amp like this

Perhaps put the switch outside the enemies jail?

================================

Really can't wait for this one to be finished.

Sjosz · Apr 12, 2006

IMO just a tiny tad too brown, perhaps.... but it was fun playing around in here!
I have a few remarks that I've put in a screenshot based feedback file, but I have no access to upload that file until later this evening. It's 7 suggestions.
A non screenshots remark is that the bots always go the central route into the JB lock rooms, but I see that you're still testing those. I'll post the link to the feedback file later tonight (possibly around 11-12 PM, so in 4 hours or so)

Hazel.H · Apr 12, 2006

Downloading

Will test it sometime before the weekend with INI if he isn't too busy

The_Head · Apr 12, 2006

Sjosz said:
IMO just a tiny tad too brown, perhaps.... but it was fun playing around in here!
I have a few remarks that I've put in a screenshot based feedback file, but I have no access to upload that file until later this evening. It's 7 suggestions.
A non screenshots remark is that the bots always go the central route into the JB lock rooms, but I see that you're still testing those. I'll post the link to the feedback file later tonight (possibly around 11-12 PM, so in 4 hours or so)

COuldn't you host them on imageshack / photobucket, or even attach them to the post?

Hazel said:
Downloading Will test it sometime before the weekend with INI if he isn't too busy

I'm around most of this week too if you need another tester / temporary server.

Sjosz · Apr 12, 2006

The_Head said:
COuldn't you host them on imageshack / photobucket, or even attach them to the post?

Nope, or I would have done so. The rig I do all my mapping/testing on is a laptop without internet connection, and I wasn't near the laptop at the time of my previous post.
Anyways, here's the feedback file:

http://www.dregsld.com/Sjosz/misc/Fragtion_Feedback.rar

I hope it helps you finish the map!

G.Lecter · Apr 13, 2006

Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming! :tup:

Ikkuh said:
awhhh, no mini?

Nope, The original CTF-Fragtion had one, but I didn't like much the way it worked on JB, so replaced it with the LightingGun. I started to definitely like the map after this change.

Oh, and no GrenadeLauncher mate, sorry...

The_Head said:
Only thing I can think of atm is that the gaps in the flooring where the pipes are, imo they would look better with a mesh texture covering them.

Yeah, that was another thing I was going to ask but forgot it.

Do you mean a glass texture/mesh covering all the pipes? I am likely to do this change, if it does not look odd...
Would like to know what does people think about this anyway...

The_Head said:
Took a look in the editor, lots of triggers, havent tried to work out what you have planned, but it looks like it could be a really cool escape / death.

Gah, you're too curious!

A lot of the triggering there is because of a bug in LoopMove movers, they only stop if you trigger them off with another mover. :con:

There also are some RandomTriggers so only few of the minecars will be used each execution...

Not sure if it will look really cool or not tbh...

The_Head said:
Perhaps put the switch outside the enemies jail?

Do you mean the escape switch, beside the enemy jaildoor? I think it would be too near the real switch...

Sjosz said:
A non screenshots remark is that the bots always go the central route into the JB lock rooms, but I see that you're still testing those.

They actually take all the paths, although the middle has more priority... I could lower the priorities there...

Sjosz said:
Anyways, here's the feedback file:

D'oh, I always forget fixing the jumpads... Thanks, I'll work on that.

The_Head said:
I'm around most of this week too if you need another tester.

You also can count on me!

Ikkuh · Apr 13, 2006

heh, fun map. I like it

It has a very nice layout imo. Good visuals, and I like the theme

I can live with no mini, but no grenade launcher is teh horror!

j/k, I guess I'll have to stick with one map only then

besides, having more grenade maps makes it less fun

I think you did good by replacing the mini with ltg, although I would prefer the mini ofc. But in this case it gives some very interesting situations with the amp, so keep it

For some reason, the red team bots refused to get to the switch here. They just walk around the same spot near the switch. But that might be because I didn't play it for too long.

The starting amp is a very nice and drastic flow-changer. It turns the map more offensive, which is good. Get a ltg + amp and you can get 1 or 2 starting kills if you are lucky, and possibly more if you stay alive

BTW, can we get another beta-testing day? That was both fun and constructive. I am available this weekend as well mostly. Maybe not for a few hours when I am moving my pc (yes, no more parents peeking if I am doing my homework or not

. byebye early leaving, hello short nights)

The_Head · Apr 13, 2006

G.Lecter said:
Yeah, that was another thing I was going to ask but forgot it. Do you mean a glass texture/mesh covering all the pipes? I am likely to do this change, if it does not look odd...

yeh a texture like that, mesh would lok best as it fits the theme better.

Also can you make the jail doors open for longer. If you are the opposite side of jail you can't get out when *just* running, its fine if you dodgejump though.

TG|DeadHead · Apr 13, 2006

First of all I want to say: Great map!

Now the comments:

- It seems like the sound in this part is all wrong. When someone walks over the area, it makes a Rankin-style noise. But it seems to be time-triggered aswell. I would say, remove it all together and make a soundtrigger on some place usefull. This well help the defenders.

- Maybe add some noise to this jumppad. People who use sound benefit from this but its not extremely vital to the map. (I dont know if the other jumppad is silent too, I forgot to check that)

- Make this jummpad less powerfull. I bumped my head to the ceiling one too many times.

Now something Im not sure of myself:

- Move the boxes to the other side of the wall.

- This will make for some walldodging action. This might help the attack. If combined with a shield jump, things go really fast. Im not sure how this works out tho.

Some others said that there might be too little ammo in the map. I dont agree with them. Its easy to get all the weapons very fast so if you're out of ammo, you can switch guns. There might be too little HP tho. And you mentioned something about escaping the jail. If you do this, make it something very hard. Since escapes dont add to the fun of the opposing team imo

- DH

EDIT: I tried the map in instant action with UTcomp on. But it killed me everytime in jail. Have you tried this before?

tarquin · Apr 13, 2006

Could you check your player starts?
Very soon after the match starts, a blue bot comes right into the red base, on the middle height walkway, way too quickly. There's not even any prisoners to release yet.

The bases are too hard to defend. It took me 7 minutes to get a capture, defending the switch on god mode. I'm not sure what to do about it though.

Putting mesh over the pipes is up to you -- I don't mind either way visually -- but you need blocking volumes in places. I got stuck on the shield's little platform.

Other than that, looks fantastic.

INIQUITOUS · Apr 13, 2006

me and hazel tested it

i loved defending this map. There were some error messages about playerstarts 9, 15, 16 and 17 in the log.. anyways Hazel is gonna post about what we found

Hazel.H · Apr 13, 2006

We tested it online today - looks pretty good, and well blocked off (mostly INI proof)

I noticed you only have 10 playerstarts in the whole map, that's probably what causes the log messages. If you're attacking from the middle route you always have to double jump to get to the switch. I think it needs a small ramp to the raised walkway leading to the lock, further away from the lock near where the 50 shield is.

G.Lecter said:
- How's the brightness going? Any area/mesh/surface that looks too bright/dark?

The lighting is fine, it looks a lot sharper if you change the floor surface lightmaps to 8 or 16 and rebuild with rgb8

The map could do with some more team colours particularly around the side routes, I found that quite confusing.

G.Lecter said:
- Any place where you can get stuck? I don't care if they're silly, most of them can be blocked.

You can dodge jump up this ramp next to the wall to get on top of those beams. When you run along the edge of the ramp you stick and your view bounces up and down, which is a bit irritating.

G.Lecter said:
- Do you think it's OK that the Amp spawns at the begining of each round?

It seems ok to me... If you don't like it you could always put a wildcard base there instead with random spawning amp / health

G.Lecter said:
- Suggestions for Emitters and Sounds.

Some dust would be good since it's a mine, and how about an echoing wind sound from those tunnels?

btw I'm hoping this will make a good escape route

I'll take a look at the other things soon... I'm sure there is a nice music track from Unreal 1 or UT99

EDIT: You can translocate in / out of jail, just needs a limtation volume around the door blocking trans disc only

tarquin · Apr 13, 2006

Oh yeah, forgot to say, I can't do the steep ramps.

What's the trick?

Hazel.H · Apr 13, 2006

tarquin said:
Oh yeah, forgot to say, I can't do the steep ramps.
What's the trick?

Run at the ramp then dodge jump very quickly before you hit it. If you dodge then jump while on the ramp you won't reach the top unless the ramp is small.

Wormbo · Apr 13, 2006

The best way to get up a dodge-ramp is to start dodging in about the distance you need to reach the highest point of the dodging move. If you time it correctly, you can do the mid-air jump right before you hit the ramp, so you get the best out of the upward motion of the jump and the bounce off the ramp.

G.Lecter · Apr 13, 2006

Thanks again! :tup:

Ikkuh said:
For some reason, the red team bots refused to get to the switch here.

Where have you seen them dancing exactly? Perhaps it has something to do with the difficulty setting? I usually have them on Masterful and I didn't notice any problem...

The_Head said:
Also can you make the jail doors open for longer. If you are the opposite side of jail you can't get out when *just* running, its fine if you dodgejump though.

The timing of the doors was set up so you can't get out of jail if you're killed right after hitting the switch. I will change it.

TG|DeadHead said:
It seems like the sound in this part is all wrong.

I don't understand what you mean here. Anyway that sound and trigger were borrowed from Idoma...

TG|DeadHead said:
Maybe add some noise to this jumppad. / Make this jummpad less powerfull.

That will be done for sure. :tup:

TG|DeadHead said:
Move the boxes to the other side of the wall.

Sorry, I can't do that. The crates are blocking a long sightline. Otherwise, you would be able to snipe from the Bio walkway to the 50shield, which is unfair IMO...

TG|DeadHead said:
There might be too little HP tho.

I can add/remove ammopickups if necessary, but I am not too keen on doing so with the healths. I'd like to keep the centre pit with the Amp and 2 healths actually useful. It is anyway a Jailbreak map so you are meant to die ever...

TG|DeadHead said:
And you mentioned something about escaping the jail. If you do this, make it something very hard.

If everything goes as planned, the escape will be very easy, but you will be able to use it only once per round. The more jailed players your team has, the higher the probability to escape. The moment to use the escape will be an interesting choice...

tarquin said:
Very soon after the match starts, a blue bot comes right into the red base, on the middle height walkway, way too quickly. There's not even any prisoners to release yet.

The map is small, so you can run away from the action around the Amp and rush to the switch. Just keep an eye on the side paths...

tarquin said:
The bases are too hard to defend. It took me 7 minutes to get a capture, defending the switch on god mode.

I hope it's not true... :hmm:

I've played lots of different rounds on the map, some of them ended the first wave, other ones lasted more than 5 minutes. Hopefully it will be OK when 2-3 players are defending... But I don't want you to put your tent on the switch!

Try going out to the middle to see which paths the enemy takes... And use the LightingGun...

tarquin said:
I got stuck on the shield's little platform.

I am not sure on the place you're talking about here. Can you post a pic please?

TG|DeadHead said:
I noticed you only have 10 playerstarts in the whole map, that's probably what causes the log messages.

Will add a few more, especially inside the jails.

Hazel said:
The map could do with some more team colours particularly around the side routes, I found that quite confusing.

There's a team coloured banner inside every room, and half of the crates will be changed to blue. Not sure about dealing with the lighting, I wouldn't like to break the brown coolness...

Hazel said:
Some dust would be good since it's a mine, and how about an echoing wind sound from those tunnels?

Any map where I could borrow them from? I don't know anything about emitters...

Or just a good tutorial?
Yep, the escape will go through those tunnels.

Hazel said:
You can dodge jump up this ramp next to the wall to get on top of those beams.

It will be blocked.

Hazel said:
You can translocate in / out of jail, just needs a limtation volume around the door blocking trans disc only

There are LimitationVolumes already. Do they need any special setting?

tarquin said:
I can't do the steep ramps. What's the trick?

What Hazel and Wormbo said. You also can do a walldodge perpendicularly to some of the ramps.

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