Does God worship a God?

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gopostal

gopostal

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Jan 19, 2006
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...much like the 3d being looking down on a 2d world. It's very simple for us to accept because we are 3d but completely unfathomable for a 2d being to accept our existence.

2d being: "OMG he can see INSIDE me and INSIDE my house! He can move from place to place instantly, seeing everything at once and hearing everything at once!"
 
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gopostal

gopostal

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Not to mention the 2d being will only ever "see" a slice of you if you entered their realm. he could never possibly comprehend your entire 3d existence and if you were to pluck him up from his little 2d world and show him the vastness of Z he would have no point of reference to understand and therefore could not accept the truth.

Perhaps time is the same? Block time is getting some interesting discussions lately.
 
[GU]elmur_fud

[GU]elmur_fud

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Time is relative. Time is subjective. Is time a thing? It's not exactly tangable. It seems linear but is it? If time isn't a thing but an illusional perception of the cohesion that is what connects things that occur within our sphere of influence then what happens when we widen that sphere?
 
gopostal

gopostal

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I would disagree. It's very subjective. If we stood together in a room and you were in great pain and I was chilling with a beer our perception of how fast the time went by would be vastly different.

Besides how would you measure time? There is no way to externally measure time.
 
gopostal

gopostal

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Prove to me it doesn't.

In all of physics time is the one constant that cannot be gauged externally. We experience it as a steady flow but there is no reason at all it has to be that way. It could stutter, hiccup, start and stop, and since we are firmly in that current we wouldn't know it unless we looked at the bank passing by. Since we don't know how to see that bank (yet) we can't tell what is happening. In fact it may be more like a frozen pond and our perception of the time flow is simply our imagination.

Here's another way of looking at the problem. Your watch only tells you part of the story, relative to where it is in time. If I pass another car on the highway, how can I tell how fast I'm going? My only reference is that other car unless I look at the road. In fact my speed could greatly fluctuate and I might not realize it so long as the other car's speed kept pace with mine. Your watch is much the same thing. You can't depend on it to tell you true "time", just what it shows relative to where (when) you are.
 
[GU]elmur_fud

[GU]elmur_fud

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kiff said:
I don't think subjective is a good word to use here. Two people in the same reference frame experience the same time effects
Click to expand...

Perhaps a quantifier is needed. I.E. Time is subjective to the individual frame of reference. As 2 individuals cannot experience the same thing and have the same vantage from 2 separate and different points in space.

Or merely replace the term subjective with variable as it has a similar enough connotation here to fit my intent.
 
gopostal

gopostal

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[GU]elmur_fud;2520928 said:
2 individuals cannot experience the same thing and have the same vantage from 2 separate and different points in space.
Click to expand...

Sure you can and Einstein made that relationship a central point in his theories.

If two people view the same clock from the same distance and one is near the event horizon of a black hole, he will see the clock run faster and faster as time dilates for him.

@Kiff: The Air Force did this same thing, they separated 2 cesium atomic clocks and flew one in a jet. The clocks lost sync as the one who had flown slowed down since it was farther from the earth's gravity.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/airtim.html

Just when you think it can't get any weirder, try this on for size:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc
It's the classic double-slit experiment.

Yeah, there is certainly a God. And he is really clever.
 
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kiff

kiff

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reference frames without outside influence. a body's gravity warps time/space, that's a different scenario, but still totally predictable and measurable
 
S

Spiney

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[GU]elmur_fud;2520928 said:
Perhaps a quantifier is needed. I.E. Time is subjective to the individual frame of reference.
Click to expand...

Subjectivity deals with the subject. Subjectivity talks about percieved reality, objectivity talks about objective reality.
Our perception prevents us from knowing the objective reality, or the 'facts' as we like to call them.

This is because we don't 'see' the object as it really is. We merely catch photons that reflect of it and register on our retinas.
Apart from that, there are numerous obstacles that prevent 'pure' knowledge.

Light hits the surface, light gets absorbed by the surface, the chrominance, luminance and hue of the light and surface textures mix and match, light travels through the atmosphere, causing dilution and shifting of wavelengths and intensity. It it projected through our imperfect eyes on our imperfect retina. And that's only the beginning of perception.
Then our brain registers this information, images are pattern matched to a priori conceptions of 'reality' -- which are again, imperfect. That also implies we do not see what we see, but we see what we 'know we see' -- incomplete. At the end of the process knowledge is formed.
And as a simple though experiment like this shows, that information is not complete or valid. This is our subjective reality, the objective reality as percieved.

We can not know what a rock is, or how it must feel to be a rock.
Because we cannot be a rock. But we can through observation catch a glimpse of what it is. We can smell, watch, taste, hear and feel it. But even so our knowledge would still be incomplete. We could however, squeeze it and find out it is actually made out of foam rubber, even when our eyes tell us it is a rock -- these are a priori conceptions.

So you are not only correct in stating time is subjective to the individual frame of reference, you are in fact saying the same thing twice.

And the watches will not start ticking faster in the objective world, but they might in the percieved world.

"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes.
When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity." -- Albert Einstein


:)
 
Staward

Staward

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I believe it's inappropriate to include the terms time and God into the same discussion range, otherwise you'll end up falling on the verge of misleadingness and non-acceptance.
I rather plunge into the illusion and discuss this eternally as the fancy thoughts go disregarded from logic, or take these thoughts away and talk this scientifically as we potentially can.

As for the abstract question of God worshiping a God, i think it's just a very stupid thought. If you have it to yourself that God actually exists, then there is nothing above, and God means all. It makes no point in believing there's such a thing as a force higher than God itself, you'd end in a vicious cycle. Even here, you must have a slight trace of logic to comprehend this simple connection, based on God's projection. You can't bend it, you can't expand it. The fact is simple: There is earth and there's the above, perpetual and supreme, nothing else. End of story.
 
B

Benfica

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Feb 6, 2006
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gopostal said:
Sure you can and Einstein made that relationship a central point in his theories.

If two people view the same clock from the same distance and one is near the event horizon of a black hole, he will see the clock run faster and faster as time dilates for him.

@Kiff: The Air Force did this same thing, they separated 2 cesium atomic clocks and flew one in a jet. The clocks lost sync as the one who had flown slowed down since it was farther from the earth's gravity.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/airtim.html
Click to expand...
Hmm... how does that prove that time dilation happened? Matter changing behavior with different gravity, sure.
 
Vaskadar

Vaskadar

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kiff said:
I don't think subjective is a good word to use here. Two people in the same reference frame experience the same time effects
Click to expand...

It's subjective to gravitational time distortion effects. Someone closer to a high point of gravity will experience time differently than one in zero gravity. Someone near a black hole could go there for a minute, but once out of proximity, hundreds or thousands of years will have passed.
 
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