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Old 25th Jul 2012, 12:20 AM   #121
cryptophreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacks:SmirkingRevenge View Post
we're discussing capital punishment.
not street justice.
When did you decide that? This is actually a thread about Batman, if you want to go there. If you don't want to talk about it that's fine, but you can't negate the point by saying it doesn't fit within some arbitrary parameters you've invented.

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the criminal is the only person who is responsible for what happens in their life. they chose to break the rules that the rest of us abide by.
Except that collectively our attitudes shape what those rules are, and what the consequences for breaking them are. As a global community we are responsible for whatever happens to the "criminal" -- be it street justice or legalized torture in concrete ant farms which produce no discernable advantage.

If you respond to nothing else, please respond to this:

1. How is any situation ever improved by intentionally making someone suffer until death? Note that saying that a person "deserves" punishment because they did something bad is skirting the premise; you are not explaining why a person who does something bad deserves anything, or who will benefit from the administration of punishment.

2. Name any loophole by which we can do despicable things to people and go on pretending to be better than them.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 01:50 AM   #122
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in happier news...
Christian Bale is visiting victims of the shooting. he was here in Denver this afternoon.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...74/detail.html

This is just plain awesome.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 02:06 AM   #123
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yeah but he is a ****ty actor.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 03:20 AM   #124
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Cheap shot at PR.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 04:12 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptophreak View Post
1. How is any situation ever improved by intentionally making someone suffer until death? Note that saying that a person "deserves" punishment because they did something bad is skirting the premise; you are not explaining why a person who does something bad deserves anything, or who will benefit from the administration of punishment.

2. Name any loophole by which we can do despicable things to people and go on pretending to be better than them.
1.) letting someone rot in prison isn't supposed to make anything better. that's not the point. it's just a punishment. he wasn't killed on the scene and it's not like I'm going to turn him free. a person who does something this bad deserves punishment. it's as simple as that. you seem to prefer execution, I prefer long term anguish. and no one is supposed to benefit, that was never the point either.

2.) religion.
duh.

I'm starting to think that you're trolling, too.
the logic in your arguments is somewhat inconsistent.

lemme illustrate this by rolling back to a previous point you made and tie it to this latest point. you said that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptophreak View Post
Life imprisonment can be motivated by two things
one of which is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptophreak View Post
2. A desire for "get back" at them, which is pointlessly spiteful and mean-spirited.
so I'm sorry, but how the hell is capital punishment or street justice any different than wishing someone rot in prison?
execution and/or shooting someone in the head in order to "dump them" in a ditch is at least as spiteful and mean-spirited as life in prison, if not more so. your logic doesn't match your rhetoric.

which brings us to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptophreak View Post
When did you decide that? This is actually a thread about Batman, if you want to go there. If you don't want to talk about it that's fine, but you can't negate the point by saying it doesn't fit within some arbitrary parameters you've invented.
I didn't decide anything.

but what are we talking about here?
the guy who shot up the movie theater before surrendering to the police.

he's now in custody and entered into the legal system.
the discussion is about capital punishment, not a bunch of hypothetical scenarios about what could/would/or should be done with other people in similar circumstances. I have no interest in discussing theories outside of the law. my concern is what happens to people under the law, not who sorts them out in the street.

if you want to have that debate, I suggest starting a new thread.
that way we can discuss all your rhetorical hypotheses without them being attached to any specific person or case.

...and now for something completely different.

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Old 25th Jul 2012, 07:05 AM   #126
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You know what? After 7 pages, I pretty much regret my previous post on this thread. I have come to realize that this thread is worthless. We are discussing matters that have their pros and cons on either point of view and this discussion isn't going to help anything or anyone. Let me just review this whole thread for you to see the point yourselves.

We can try to strict gun access so that the chances of loonies having easy access to firearms get slimmer. However, if we do, criminals won't follow the stricer rules and there's allways black market anyway.

I don't agree with neither Jacks nor crypto because IMO they're missing out on the true intention of confinement / death penalty. If some asshole goes out on a killing spree, his action is a proof that they no longer can continue being a part of the big system of society and need to be removed. It's as simple as that. Removing of the unfit individual of the system. Non-perpetual confinement has the purpose of rehabilitating an individual so that they can be deemed fit to be a part of society again. This is not about revenge, and definitely not about street justice, so change your ways, crypto. However, do you think someone can be deemed fit after a killing spree? In this case you could present the two previosly discussed options. You can execute the individual, wich will remove him from society permanentely, and your tax dollars won't be wasted feeding his sorry ass. But what if the perp is innocent (not this case, of course)? Or you can drop his sorry ass on prison and waste your money on his "suffering". Plus it's unproductive. He won't benefit the society with his confinement in anyway.

And finaly there's the video of the guy who doesn't ****ing care about any of this ****. You can agree about how the media always tries to suffocate you with these types of scandals (mass shootings, terrorist attacks, mass effect 3 endings, so on) and almost shove down your throat the raw videos, the suffering of families and witnesses until you eventually stop caring and only after it gets uninteresting they decide to move on. However, this guy would not have this reaction if one of the victims was a friend or family.

And this thread was about Batman and no Batman is being discussed here. This is pointless and sad. Someone just close this and let's move on

Last edited by HugoMarques; 25th Jul 2012 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 07:23 AM   #127
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You know what? After 7 pages, I pretty much regret my previous post on this thread. I have come to realize that this thread is worthless. We are discussing matters that have their pros and cons on either point of view and this discussion isn't going to help anything or anyone. Let me just review this whole thread for you to see the point yourselves.

We can try to strict gun access so that the chances of loonies having easy access to firearms get slimmer. However, if we do, criminals won't follow the stricer rules and there's allways black market anyway.

I don't agree with neither Jacks nor crypto because IMO they're missing out on the true intention of confinement / death penalty. If some asshole goes out on a killing spree, his action is a proof that they no longer can continue being a part of the big system of society and need to be removed. It's as simple as that. Removing of the unfit individual of the system. Non-perpetual confinement has the purpose of rehabilitating an individual so that they can be deemed fit to be a part of society again. This is not about revenge, and definitely not about street justice, so change your ways, crypto. However, do you think someone can be deemed fit after a killing spree? In this case you could present the two previosly discussed options. You can execute the individual, wich will remove him from society permanentely, and your tax dollars won't be wasted feeding his sorry ass. But what if the perp is innocent (not this case, of course)? Or you can drop his sorry ass on prison and waste your money on his "suffering". Plus it's unproductive. He won't benefit the society with his confinement in anyway.

And finaly there's the video of the guy who doesn't ****ing care about any of this ****. You can agree about how the media always tries to suffocate you with these types of scandals (mass shootings, terrorist attacks, mass effect 3 endings, so on) and almost shove down your throat the raw videos, the suffering of families and witnesses until you eventually stop caring and only after it gets uninteresting they decide to move on. However, this guy would not have this reaction if one of the victims was a friend or family.

And this thread was about Batman and no Batman is being discussed here. This is pointless and sad. Someone just close this and let's move on
+1 ...mostly anyway... I feel this thread can still be moronic in other ways.

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Old 25th Jul 2012, 08:13 AM   #128
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Cheap shot at PR.
Yeah cheap indeed

Quote:
Voloch revealed he was notified that Bale wanted to visit the injured, but was asked not to notify the media the actor was coming.
Quote:
Bale is said to have gone of his own volition, according to a Warner Bros. employee: "Mr. Bale is there as himself, not representing Warner Bros.," an assistant to the studio's executive VP Susan Fleishman told The Denver Post.




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Kantham??
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 08:50 AM   #129
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**** all you skeptics!!
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 01:03 PM   #130
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From beginning to end this thread sucks in every way!
That's not possible. I sneaked a slightly adjusted Ghostbusters 2 quote in that has suckage immunity.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 03:24 PM   #131
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That's not possible. I sneaked a slightly adjusted Ghostbusters 2 quote in that has suckage immunity.
... but someone else ruined it...
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what the **** is wrong with you
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 03:33 PM   #132
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GET HIM ON A DIET ALREADY :/
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 04:03 PM   #133
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what the **** is wrong with you
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 04:31 PM   #134
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Was hoping an admin would separate the actual discussions of the movie from the moral e-penis thumping. Would be nice to actually discuss the movie and not watch thread after thread of online cavemen beating their chests to see who has the biggest virtual rock.

Guess that was too much to hope for.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 04:45 PM   #135
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Kantham??
actually it's Justin Bieber.
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Originally Posted by Renegade Retard View Post
Was hoping an admin would separate the actual discussions of the movie from the moral e-penis thumping. Would be nice to actually discuss the movie and not watch thread after thread of online cavemen beating their chests to see who has the biggest virtual rock.
moral epenis thumping?
cavemen?
virtual rocks?

why does this conversation upset you so much?
we're just discussing the implications of the death penalty which is basically on-topic. Jackal started this thread as a troll anyhow, so what difference does it make?

if you wanna talk about the movie then talk about the movie.
no one is stopping you. I'm sure people will talk about the movie with you. probably even one of us cavemen

but instead of attempting to help the thread you apparently are so upset with, you just dropped by to cry about it and insult the people that you deemed responsible for whatever it is you're upset about, and then left without adding anything the least bit useful. yes, good job.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 06:20 PM   #136
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Yeah cheap indeed
Knowing full well that the public would take pictures and push them round the social networks.

Clever, yes but still cheap.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 06:35 PM   #137
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Hello, I am on the internet. Please read my thoughts on the matter. It's important that you do.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 07:12 PM   #138
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Hello, I am on the internet. Please read my thoughts on the matter. It's important that you do.
It's called a debate
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 08:40 PM   #139
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Talking

The only worse batman than kilmer was clooney.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 12:16 AM   #140
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A cop came in and patrolled while I was watching the movie. Stood in the front of the theater and just stared at the audience for a while. Then went up and down the aisles.

Then one of the employees came in with his glowstick and signed some kind of form taped to the emergency exit.

Great movie despite the distractions!
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