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Old 19th Mar 2012, 11:44 AM   #61
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Yeah , it's complex , I tried to get people to play UT3 and many had never even heard of it. So releasing against better promoted games, along with the lack of a playable WAR demo, as per UT2004(ONS) didn't help either
The lack of Warfare in the demo was bad, but I don't think it contributed much to the failure of the game overall. I'd say the fact that virtually nothing was fixed between demo and retail was a much bigger problem than that.
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Just to illustrate the point as to where devs giving too much ground on accessibility leads - no one wants a new UT that's like an on- rails shooter, or one that's more 'Titan' than Tournament.
I don't know. Titan isn't awesome but there is nothing technically wrong with it. It's something fun to play at times, mutators/mods like Titan are one of the great things about UT. I certainly don't think it's the same as "large open levels" vs. "corridors with cutscenes".

And, to ambershee's point, the marketing was horrendous. UT3 Black had better marketing than the original retail release and Midway hardly did anything for that.
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Old 19th Mar 2012, 12:08 PM   #62
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Wasn't there a trailer that started off with something like "From the studio that brought you Gears of War"?
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Old 19th Mar 2012, 12:16 PM   #63
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Wasn't there a trailer that started off with something like "From the studio that brought you Gears of War"?
Always should have been the other way around.

Gears of War's trailers should have opened with: From the studio that brought you Unreal Tournament.
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Old 19th Mar 2012, 12:19 PM   #64
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Wasn't there a trailer that started off with something like "From the studio that brought you Gears of War"?
thats one of the reason that ut3 failed
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Old 19th Mar 2012, 01:45 PM   #65
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Gears of War's trailers should have opened with: From the studio that brought you Unreal Tournament.
As much as I take offense to the lack of studio heritage in the GoW marketing... at the core this is a fanboy's lament plain and simple.

Unreal Tournament 2 was a fairly polarizing game given the PC audience's response to the demo and state of the game at 2003's release. 2004 helped repair the image a bit, but the game was still suffering in terms of popularity due to players shifting to other games. Let's not even think about Unreal's 2 legacy. In addition, I think Unreal Championship and its sequel both failed to make a large amount of in-roads with the XBox community as well.

So you're looking at a brand that was tarnished by 2 half-baked games (Unreal 2/UT2003) and one that was an updated apology (2004) which probably started as a bonus pack similar to UT3: Black. This is not a situation that instills consumer confidence in your studio.

So... would any marketing team want to lead off with call-outs to games that weren't on the XBox platform, and by and large were probably unheard of by that community?

I think the intent with Gears was to start with a blank slate: a brand new platform, new gameplay, and none of the Unreal baggage. Hence why there was nary a reference to Unreal in the GoW promo.

On the flip side, UT3 being promoted with GoW makes a lot of sense. Gears was a huge success on the XBox and in a world of multiplatform releases, they were clearly trying to capitalize on the name recognition of GoW. At least on the 360. The "faithful" (ie. die hard Unreal fans) don't need to be marketed to. Epic already knows they have our money, or if they don't they know they know we just need a demo to kick us off the fence. Those trailers weren't aimed at us. They were aimed at the new fans they picked up with GoW.

So can we get over this banal argument that doesn't really add to the discussion?
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Old 20th Mar 2012, 09:24 AM   #66
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UT2k4 while not as great as the original UT had some great things about it that were clearly overlooked and completely abandoned in UT3.

UT2k4's vibrant environments had much more variety than seen in UT and especially UT3. The armor system in UT2k4 was also vastly superior to any of the UT games, also the replacement of the sniper for the lightning gun was also in my opinion a much better design choice.

If a new UT is going to be made it needs to find a middle ground between the original UT and UT2k4.
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Old 20th Mar 2012, 12:54 PM   #67
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After Cliffyb's comments about making a new Unreal game, I don't see how Epic could make another UT without having it be another half-assed sequel.

UT2k3/4 took almost everything that was already generic in UT and somehow made those things even more generic. 2k4's sniper rifle is probably the most boring weapon I have ever seen for a game.
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Old 20th Mar 2012, 01:12 PM   #68
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The actual sniper rifle or the LG?
The LG was pretty neat in that it could arc at the impact site and hit other targets
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Old 20th Mar 2012, 01:55 PM   #69
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2k4's sniper rifle is probably the most boring weapon I have ever seen for a game.
It was added because people endlessly complained it was absent in 2k3.
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Old 20th Mar 2012, 04:47 PM   #70
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OK, maybe I'm a delusional fan, but do you guys remember that Rockstar games announced that GTA V was a long way before busting out that Trailer? Just sayin'.
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Old 20th Mar 2012, 11:17 PM   #71
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It was added because people endlessly complained it was absent in 2k3.
They could have implemented it in a way that is not boring, such as UT3's SR. In UT2004, it sounded like a pea shooter and looked silly.
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Old 21st Mar 2012, 05:30 AM   #72
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They did implement it in a way that was less boring. It was called the Lightning Gun.
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Old 21st Mar 2012, 07:57 AM   #73
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I still welcome a new UT, although not as much as a new Unreal, like Unreal 3 or something.
But, my point is, UT was super awesome back to 1999 with brand new gameplay and original ideas, and crazy levels, and very stylish visual.
So they have to make sure they really understand why UT99 was a great success, before they do another UT or sort of thing.
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Old 22nd Mar 2012, 12:16 AM   #74
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They did implement it in a way that was less boring. It was called the Lightning Gun.
So, you beat me to it...
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Old 22nd Mar 2012, 08:20 AM   #75
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So nobody is expecting an April fools prank ?
I mean seriously guys, those complaints about how UTx was a failure are ... beyond unreal
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Old 22nd Mar 2012, 08:24 AM   #76
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Old 22nd Mar 2012, 11:23 AM   #77
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Maybe he can get Michael Bay to make an Unreal Tournament movie
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Old 22nd Mar 2012, 04:58 PM   #78
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#77 wut?
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Old 22nd Mar 2012, 06:45 PM   #79
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Wow, there are a lot of jaded, entitled whiners on this forum. UT3 was not perfect, but it's a solid game and did a lot right. Yes, the menu sucked if you were on a PC. How much time do people spend in the damn menu?! The gameplay was more reminiscent of UT99 than UT2K4 because many people hated the floaty movement of UT2K4. The gameplay still UT, just more UT99 like. It's not like they changed the core mechanics to something different.

UT3 is not anything like a console game, and that's probably why it failed on consoles. Even UC2, which was seriously optimized to be played on console, was rejected by Xbox gamers because it was too fast and too hard to learn in an afternoon.

Epic is a business, and right now, the business is in the console market. I can understand any developers wanting to make games for their PC fanbase that made them big, but why would they when the PC fans act like this? I know if I was a developer, and I worked my ass off on a game like Epic obviously did with UT3 and the fans acted like this, I'd flip them the bird and move on to greener pastures.

The bottom line is, console gamers reject UT, even when it's optimized for console play(like UC2), and PC gamers will not just whine about every change they make to future installments, but also express some serious animosity towards them. We would be lucky to see another UT with a fanbase like that.

Get off the high horse, Epic could dump the UT series forever if they wanted to, but they don't . They don't owe any of you cry babies anything.
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Old 22nd Mar 2012, 07:33 PM   #80
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^ word.
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