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Old 20th Sep 2000, 07:39 AM   #1
[UJE]Crakdeala
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Question

Last night, I had a 2v2 friendly match against [LKG]. To get going, it took quite some time to sort things out for both sides. UJE had difficulty finding a 2nd player cause the one who organized it had to take his wife to the emergency room. LKG called a friend to get a dedicated server going. Anyway, it turned out everyone in that game had over 15 % loss, up to 50 % at times. When I commented on it, they got rude and starting saying "Can't handle a little lag?" and "Typical lpb". In response I disconnected and asked them to leave our chat channel.

Granted, I'd be the first to admit I am not good at handling lag. I dont have it very often and I dont plan on training it. Low ping games are more fun. I wonder if I am a lpb??

My standard:

good connection: ping <100, no loss (yes, it happens sometimes )

average connection: ping 100 - 200, max 3 % loss. Still very playable

acceptable: ping up to 350, max 3 % loss. I'd still play a clanmatch under these circumstances, provided the opponent has about the same connection.

not acceptable: anything with ping >400, or any connection with >10 % loss. For example ping 300 with 8 % is also unacceptable.

Well... pass some judgement

Crakie
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Old 20th Sep 2000, 07:53 AM   #2
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You are an LPB if you kill me more than twice in a row with the impact hammer.
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Old 20th Sep 2000, 08:17 AM   #3
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You are a LPB if your ping is below (I'd say) 75.

There are varying degrees of LPBs, I believe; which would be based on skills applied. Like tele-fragging or hammer kills.
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Old 20th Sep 2000, 08:25 AM   #4
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I consider ping to decdide whether you are a lpb or a hpb.
Packet loss is something different. You can't play 'around' it and it screws a game up.

The standards are different for everyone, but here are mine :

Anything less than 150 is a lpb.
Anything from 180-260 is in the middle, very playable but with noticable lag.
Then the area I play in 300+ Lots of lag to deal with, the hpbs. Still playable up to 350 when it starts to go down hill rapidly.

(There are some grey areas, but thats because pings move up and down, and the situation makes a difference too)

i.e If the server was full of sub 100 lpbs and I had a 280 ping, I would probably consider my self a hpb in that situation.

Anything over 400+ is unplayable. Well, it is playable but it aint much fun, I would only ever consider playing on a server with 400 ping if it was with fellow PuFs - and never on a public server.

As with packet loss...anything over 3% is damn annoying. Luckily I dont suffer from packet loss much.
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Old 20th Sep 2000, 08:28 AM   #5
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Hmmm. So they were saying that an LPB is someone who plays with low latency in most of his games, rather than someone who has a low ping RIGHT NOW. As if LPB is a state of being/state of mind rather than a transient observation. Interesting.

I would define LPB differently than your friends in [LKG]. I don't think it's quite a state of mind so much as a relativistic qualification based on whatever current circumstances prevail.

In English, you're an LPB if your ping/pl is significantly lower than the average player's ping/pl on that server at that time. If you have a 135 ping and everyone else is struggling with 350-500, you're an LPB. If you have a 135 ping and your opponent has a 24 ping, HE's the LPB. If you go on the same server where most are struggling with high pings, and your connection also starts to suffer, you're not an LPB.

By the way, I recommend everyone go download "Gay, Not Gay" by King Missile.

What I'm trying to say is, how could you be a "typical LPB" when your ping/pl was as bad as everyone else's on the server at the time? Screw them. HPB rage is alive and well(yes, I realize the irony).

I get some good pings often, but I have comparatively high packet loss. I'm often the only one with over 0 percent pl. I spike to 5-20 percent often on some servers. Verizon is crap.

If I stop to think about it though, it still amazes me that players all over the world can play in fast paced action games against each other at all. Wow.
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Old 20th Sep 2000, 08:29 AM   #6
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Your standards seem right....

Under 150 with no PL. definetly.

If your averaging under 200...Yeah, I think thats an lpb.

On my best server, when I hit F1, Often I have pings under 200. However, when I hit F6, It's always higher, I think 50ms or more. That would put my ping around 250.

Ngstats also shows my average ping between at 276.1...That makes me an HPB.

The guy you were playing was a jerk..PL is worse than a high ping. I don't even like playing with any PL, more than a few % , I don't even bother. Most of the time, I go to grab the flag, next thing I know is that I took a nose dive into the lava....PL SUCKS!
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Old 20th Sep 2000, 08:57 PM   #7
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*bump*

I'm a little curious to hear a few other ops.
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Old 20th Sep 2000, 09:04 PM   #8
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I always thought that if a player is sub 125 he is a Low Ping Bastard.
Over 250 and you are High Ping Bait.
And anywhere in between you are neither.
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Old 20th Sep 2000, 11:52 PM   #9
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For me, 200 and above is NOT LPB. I get 100-200 online, but always 5% PL now. More or less. Sometimes it'll spike to %50-60. My ISP sucks. Can't do anything about it. I'd rather have 200 ping with no PL than 100 with PL. I hate teleporting or being somewhere else suddenly. That is NOT fun.
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Old 21st Sep 2000, 12:16 AM   #10
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I think Kef had a pretty good definition. And, yes, Packet Loss is a totally different thing. PL is unacceptable in anything over 2%. That's not lag, it's a total loss of the instructions you send the server.
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Old 21st Sep 2000, 12:26 AM   #11
(BoD) nepenthe
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I agree Ultron. I'd gladly give up a tenth of a second to not have the damn warping and screen freezing I get lately.

hal, I hardly ever get anything under 3%. True, my DSL has been more reliable lately (only drops completely out once every other day or so now), but the packet loss seems to be prevalent no matter where I go.

Still, it isn't completely unplayable, it's just aggravating. But I can't complain, I get 100-150 pings, right?
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Old 21st Sep 2000, 12:32 AM   #12
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damn nep - how long have you got to go on that contract?

Hope you can get a better connection soon!
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Old 21st Sep 2000, 12:40 AM   #13
(BoD) nepenthe
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7 months.

Definitely going for cable next April!
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Old 21st Sep 2000, 01:03 AM   #14
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You guys are all spoiled. I deal with a ping of 300-500 every day. If i get a 250 ping, I feel extremely content (for the whole 5 minutes that it stays that low). It makes me very upset to hear anyone on cable+ complaining about lag...
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Old 21st Sep 2000, 01:54 AM   #15
(BoD) nepenthe
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Well, sorry you think I'm spoiled, TDS. The fact is, my connection is less than perfect right now. I'm stuck in a nasty one year contract they won't let me break. I can't say I'd like to go back to dial up. But things aren't all rosy in broadband land, ya know.

No offense, but you sound very much like the [LKG] members mentioned in the initial post. A bad connection is a bad connection, whether one guy feels justified in lodging a legitimate complaint about said connection because he usually plays with 100 ping and no pl, or whether the other guys feel justified in calling him a sissy because said connection is normal for them is beside the point.

Many people with broadband (good broadband that works, unlike mine) labored for a long time using slow dial up connections. Some feel lucky to now have access to broadband. If you had DSL or cable available in your area, wouldn't you jump on it too?

My old dial up was bad, real bad. I didn't like 750 ping, so I only played online at my brother's on cable. But at least it was more reliable than DSL, and I'm sure many dial up users get much lower packet loss than I get.
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Old 21st Sep 2000, 02:31 AM   #16
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When you pay 40 bucks a month for low ping and you're not getting what you paid for, then complaints are not far behind.
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Old 21st Sep 2000, 05:25 AM   #17
(BoD) nepenthe
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True, Goshen, and I pay $55 a month for mine.
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Old 21st Sep 2000, 05:33 AM   #18
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All this talk about packet loss... I understand the concept, but how do you know how much pl you are getting? What percent?
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Old 21st Sep 2000, 06:07 AM   #19
[UJE]Crakdeala
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Rubeone: you can check the loss the same way you check your ping: with F1 (pl x %) or with F6.

Interesting stuff. Especially the one with lpb as a state of being/state of mind. Actually, there is some truth in that, because I tend to avoid these games. Only when my clan needs me, I will play a game in the circumstances I defined as 'acceptable'.

Yeah, since I am MUCH better with ping <200, little loss, and enjoy these connections regularly, I'd call myself a lpb. But then again, I am only used to it too. I think its a fair assesment. Would you intentionally start playing with high pings?

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