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Old 16th Aug 2001, 09:55 AM   #1
Cholo Grande
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New scoring system... Proximity=teamwork?

Just wanted to start a comment about the new scoring system... proximity determines if you're using teamwork? What if your teams gameplan is to fan out and cover all the chokepoints in a map? What if the team plan involved one guy covering the rear? Is he not a team player for giving up the high kills frontline to make sure the team can't be flanked?

From what I see, this is trying to force teamwork on public servers through a silly scoreboard. Some of the worste teamwork I've seen in matches involved a team all being close enough together to be coralled and taken out quickly. True teamwork is about dynamic movement and controling the map. You don't do that by standing close enough to participate in a circle jerk.
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 10:13 AM   #2
{PhD}Teutonic
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I totally agree Cholo.

I would love to see a group of public players try to stay within 10 meters of each other attempt
to defeat any organized INF squad.

Those few extra bonus points won't mean as much to them when they lose 8 rounds to 0.

I do like the accuracy% aspect of the scoreboard though
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 10:23 AM   #3
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/me wants a if-you-are-within-10-meters-of-the-nade-you-absolutely-die-grenade

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Old 16th Aug 2001, 10:36 AM   #4
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I agree. If I'm way back there covering someone more than 10m away I won't get rewarded for it. It's a good attempt at more teamplay on pubs, but I don't think it'll work.
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 10:56 AM   #5
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I Agree but...

..the purpose was to try and encourage teamwork. It may not be a perfect solution but I think it will help focus individuals out on the pub's. Not sure how(if) it could be done differently or better under the constraints of the game but I am sure those suggestions will surface.

To your point Cholo, the ultimate score is a W or an L, the bonus points won't mean squat. Whether a strategy is worthy of points or not depends on one and only one thing...Did your team win ? There are a number of pub players who get their self worth by score alone this teamwork aspect will help the overall gaming experince for the rest of us who want the W for the team.

BTW I think you guys are doing a hell of a job with the servers. Thanks for the sandbox.

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Old 16th Aug 2001, 11:08 AM   #6
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I think the system is good enough. Let's say there are 5 people (including you) on your team playing on a large map (EP for eexample). 4 of them go rush out towards the enemy while you are staying behind watching them and their surroundings through your scope. If you now kill a threat to them the game wouldn't recognize it as teamplay.
But that is absolutely ok, because IMO it would be overall better teamplay if only three of the other players rushed out and one stayed to watch the sniper's back. And in that case you (better: not you personally but your team) get the teamplay bonus for the same kill.
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 11:24 AM   #7
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Why even have a "score"? A scoring system that is made up of rules such as "damage + teamwork + bonus+ percentage= score" is misleading on how a person actually performed during a round.

All we really need for TDM is statistics. Let us decipher who was the most important to their team based on a simple count of the following:

Kills
Deaths
TK's
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 11:55 AM   #8
Farouk
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Because that doesn't promote teamplay which is the whole point in the debate on Inf's scoring system.

I'd be happy without any scoring or statistics but most players want something of that kind.
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 12:16 PM   #9
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First on a public server I don't care about anyone but myself! I'll shoot you if you walk in front, or I'll nade you just because a enemy is near! There will never be total team cooperation if TDM, period! Team Death Match is just that two teams fighting to the death, same priciples as dm, but only you should be penalized for shooting your own team! The only way there will be "teamplay" is if there is a common goal: ie: secure a room, blow up a transistor like the new EAS system. Even in those crcumstances if you are on a public server it will still be hard to make people play as a team! Providing a more "condusive" scoreboard that gives you arbitrary team stats will not help you guys wanting us to play more as a team! I play as a team when I am playing in a match versus another team for something, but as soon as I am on a public server I could care less if my side wins or looses because I am there just to have fun! I think most of you guys are loosing the point of fun on this. If you want to play as a team on a public server, play as your own team, and quit whining about everyone else doing there own thing! If you want true teamplay go join a clan(team) that plays in any one of the number of leagues available! Otherwise get over yourselves!
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 12:23 PM   #10
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1) teamwork % is based on having at least ONE player in proximity. It's always a good idea to have someone covering your back even if you're a sniper. But we realize that this system cannot meet the "dynamic movement" of war, so it's a bonus, plain and simple, to promote teamwork. Also note that your personal teamwork % will be displayed next to the team as a whole.
2) the scoreboard as a whole does little more than provide information- in a way that avoids individualism. True, position in the list is based on individual kills, but I don't feel that will compromise the intention of the scoreboard. Is that true? hell if I know- guess we'll find out.
3) the scoreboard, as it provides information, is a way to help you personally work better as a team. Infiltration is a harder game than most. The weapons are harder, and the movement is harder- which is why working as a team is important. Even if it's just the two of you. I've seen only two guys consistantly control entire maps as they work together. UT isn't a huge environment to work in, but it's large enough that working together is a benefit. If it turns out you got wasted by another team acting as individuals, then the scoreboard should reflect your performance as a team and hopefully you'll learn from it. Will it work? hell if I know- guess we'll find out.
4) in the end, the team left standing is the winner. The scoreboard is a guide to help you win as a team. I'll see if we can have an option to export stats from the scoreboard so people can manipulate the log files and use those stats for clans and whatnot. Other than tournaments, public servers probably won't be able to use these stats other than what their true intentions are.

Anyway, that's why we did it. Will people use it? That's up to them as individuals.
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 12:30 PM   #11
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Please tell me you were just ranting

I would certainly expect more from MUF

Quote:
First on a public server I don't care about anyone but myself! I'll shoot you if you walk in front, or I'll nade you just because a enemy is near!
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 12:53 PM   #12
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Let me elaborate a little for you robrob, in those situations it depends on my living to play longer or both of us dying!
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 12:57 PM   #13
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Damn, I never really thought of that. Seeing as in our training in the AFA we learn to operate at a minimum distance of 10 meters, the whole teamwork rating could really suck for us.
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 12:59 PM   #14
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dear god, it's warren again!
that's two by warren in the last 2.5 days...

Quote:
hell if I know- guess we'll find out.
exactly, people... let's wait and see how it works out in the game before we go off and shoot down just about every new feature the team's working into the new release... my god, the new version hasn't even been released and the team's already getting flamed for the teamwork scoring, the accuracy, etc etc... christ, guys, lighten up and wait for it to come out so we can actually see with our own eyes how it works...

as for the teamwork scoring, it ain't perfect... hell nothing's perfect in this world... it'd be a boring place to live in if it were... i'm just glad that the teamwork aspect is actually showing up... sure i won't be awarded teamwork bonuses if i'm setting up a firebase and laying down suppressive fire for my team, but hey, **** happens... 'sides, like warren said, it's just a bonus

[edit] instaposted...
as for 10m... 10m is a decent distance apart... a nade'll take out maybe 2 if you're lucky, but 10m is a safe enough patrol distance... now if you're talking about everyone cluster****ing ina small 10 foot circle, then i'd call 'em grenade bait...
[/edit]
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 01:00 PM   #15
Cholo Grande
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I will say that I CARE about individual statistics in public games. You can't have people randomly logging on and off and expect teamwork. It just doesn't work.

I play public games to hone my skills. Yes I want my side to win, and if I see some of the guys I usualy play with, I'll link up with them. However, I'm there to kick ass, not that I kick that much ass . When I have a good match and the rest of my team sucked I like to see that I did well and got my share of kills. I would have a liked a simple one kill, one point system.

The measure of teamplay is alot easier. Red wins or Blue wins.
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 01:19 PM   #16
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What I would like to see added is, if I were to kill someone who is within 5m of a teammate I get rewarded for that even though I'm not within 10m. Because I get the feeling the people who like to sit back and provide cover will not do that anymore because there efforts are'n't getting recognized.

I agree LoTekk. We'll only know how good/bad the new system will be once we've tried it. But constructive criticism now might prevent holes form appearing later. I like the fact though that Warren/Beppo/Shakken give their input on things. It shows they're dedicated and that they listen.
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 01:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by MUF Antagonist
First on a public server I don't care about anyone but myself! I'll shoot you if you walk in front, or I'll nade you just because a enemy is near
That is everything i hate about public servers summed up in two neat sentences. you oughtta be ashamed of yourself. You remind me of a player on my team who would TK cause "we were in his way" , nice strategy dumbass he ended up with 3 points with the next lowest person on the scoreboard with 32.
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 01:25 PM   #18
Cholo Grande
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Ahem.... if you think we're getting 4 point scored then I beg you to try us out. I think the thought that was being conveyed is, playing on the same team with 7 guys I don't know from Mr. Patel at the gas station, I care about MY score. Not yours. Yes, I want the team to win, but in a public game, with people logging on and logging off every couple minutes, MY score is what means something to me. My whole team can suck and not play as a team and lose, and I still like to see if I could break 70 with my m9 psg loadout.
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 01:35 PM   #19
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Why does everyone care about themselves so much? THIS is why the a gaming community goes to hell. Rude, selfish people who care about points more than having fun and meeting new people. It disgusts me.
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Old 16th Aug 2001, 01:43 PM   #20
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well said eddievedder... i've personally had some great pub server matches with people i don't know... two notables off the top of my head are GAT-Rogue and McMuffin...

and mondoguy, i agree with constructive criticism... that's always the best way to improve... however i've seen so much bitching in the past two days about features people haven't even seen in action yet that it's getting on my nerves...

[edit] WizBiz, i dub thee: instaposted! (does that mean i get your poast added to my post count then? )[/edit]
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st0rmcaller: I didn't have to wear pink...
st0rmcaller: But then again, It's not like I'm getting any
st0rmcaller: so I may as well wear pink
thepinklamb: lmao
st0rmcaller: but then, I may wind up getting some. the kind of some no man wants
st0rmcaller: I shoulda moved to Nevada, not Vriginia. Nevada has whores.
st0rmcaller: Virginia is for lovers, but **** me if that means all the chicks are taken.
st0rmcaller: <---****ed.
---
st0rmcaller: If female, and under the age of 90, she's a ****in winner
thepinklamb: lol
st0rmcaller: Hey, I got to have SOME standards
st0rmcaller: mebbe 85
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