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Old 5th Dec 2000, 01:49 PM   #1
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I was playin UT today, and switching between team players, in CTF. I had a thought, what if instead of a full screen view, you had a picture in picture window. That way you could view what ever team player all the time. (If perhaps you didnt like the picture in picture, the opition could be added to the HUD. Also it could auto switch when you one of your team players gets the enemy flag. This way you would always know where to go, alot easier. This idea I feel would help those Gung Ho players play more like a team player then rambo style. And I would more then improve UT team play on any level. Well let me know what you think, could this be possible. Or are the opitions limited in the programing of UT.... Its an idea I hold we could type about.

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Old 5th Dec 2000, 01:53 PM   #2
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That would be a neat idea, but only usable for people with higher end systems that could support 2 pictures at once. Mine has a hard time showing me MY screen.
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Old 5th Dec 2000, 02:13 PM   #3
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I think that's a great idea, but yea, there are obvious performance issues to deal with. If you can keep the LOD low enough on the PiP window, while still maintaining some level of clarity, it would be ok. Sorta like when you play with your weapon hidden, the game speeds up (not noticably though), so I'm not sure what kind of performance hit a "window" like that would make. Just not sure if UT has the capability to render two screens at once, would be cool though. However, this really shouldn't be any different then when UT renders a monitor screen displaying another location in the map.


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Old 5th Dec 2000, 02:23 PM   #4
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I don't think it would be as much of a system resource hog, but I do think it would take away quite a bit of much-needed connection bandwidth. Most players are still stuck with 56k, and we lag enough as it is. Ya might think "Oh, a 375 ping isn't so bad"... but that's 375ms... which is over a THIRD of a second. And when ppl are running around and you're trying to get sniper bullets to hit on target, it DOES matter .

The other "problem" with that idea is it isn't really very realistic. You can't see a 3rd person picture of teammates in real life. But then again - it is a game...hehehe.

It is a very interesting idea - I agree it would make very reactive and competitive teamplay. I like the idea, and would also be interested to see if it could be done.
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Old 5th Dec 2000, 02:30 PM   #5
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As a variation, I would suggest this:

Instead of a PiP view, the hud would display an overhead view of the map - it could even be as simple as a retangular box, but would probably be more usable if it had a very basic, line-drawing-type representation of the map.

Your base would be on the left, the enemy on the right. This display could show just your teammates, with your flag carrier highlighted (or not...) You could have various options (a powerup to show you the enemy players? Or just the enemy flag carrier? Now wouldn't that be handy when your 1/2 across the map and your flag gets swiped - lot easier to tell where the thief is...)

Definitely has some possibilities... Too bad I don't know enough UT code to say if it's even feasible
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Old 5th Dec 2000, 03:06 PM   #6
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Well, the overhead view offers almost too much information. That's borderline to having a spec in the match to tell you where your flag is. Half the fun of being a FC is losing the enemy on your way out using a complicated exit path. Also, if you've ever viewed an indoor map like Coret in UnrealEd from far above in the 3D view, it doesn't look very attractive.

Something that sorta popped in my head that would be kinda cool, is if you had an item like the xloc that would shoot out a device and would then put you into a view like the redeemer as you fly it around the map. You could then leave it any place you wanted and go back and see the view any time later on in the map (like a hidden camera that you could put anywhere, like near your flag, or in the enemy base). And if it's destroyed by an enemy while you're viewing from it or moving it around, or if you try to go and view from it after it's already been destroyed, it would kill you (I guess a shock or something). There would have to be some reason for caution or ppl would use it too much. With some Uscript, you could probably create an actor that utilized aspects of the spectator view, along with some properties of the xloc, to get it done. I don't really see something like this being a standalone mod/mutator, but more an integral part of a larger mod with a stealth based them. Your thoughts?


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Old 5th Dec 2000, 03:18 PM   #7
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In UnrealFortress the Armorer can build such cameras!
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Old 5th Dec 2000, 03:34 PM   #8
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Now there are some ideas I didnt think of. Never thought about above view, or the other ideas everyone has come up with so far. But I would have to agree on the fact that the overhead view, showing everyone including the enemy when the grab your flag. I think it would be just fine with only seeing just your team. That way it still lets your enemy escape. There is still the thing that while watching a team mate, that comes across they enemy. Well now you know where they are. But that still depends on who your watching. So there is still a chance to escape, Just pray no one is watching the little screen. .... As fo the other ideas, I think the opition of switching between whatever you want would be good. So that way you can pick whatever view you want. The monitor thing I new about, and that does work. Put on the consumer end not everyone is ganna go buy a new or used monitor just for another view. With the HUD opition for the PiP, you dont have to buy a monitor. That and since its less costly on the buy. More might play that way. It would just make it more fun for me I think, and possible others. You would still always have the opition of not picking any screen. But at least now you could have that opition. Put then again... THE BIG QUESTION STILL REMAINS. Can it be done?

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Old 5th Dec 2000, 03:43 PM   #9
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P.s. One more thing, the bandwidth issue. I dont think it would take up any more bandwidth then your using. Since your PC is already in sync with the game. Your PC knows where every other PC is in the game. SO Im not to sure if it would take up anymore bandwidth...Like if it were another game going on on the same screen. Its actually I feel the same game still. So bandwidth I dont think would be problem. But then again I could be wrong...

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Old 5th Dec 2000, 03:58 PM   #10
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Let's take this one more step.

Let's assume that there is a team captain. The team captain could switch between the "map" view of HIS team (and possibly any enemy players that his team can see at that moment) or the view of one of his team mates.

The non-captain team members could select one other team mates view at a time or, by configuration, not be allowed a pip at all.

And you are correct, this would be like having a spec or sorts in the game. But A spec that can only see what his team can see. That is, a spec without his own camera and restricted to one team only. Frankly, that might be another idea. A derived class of spectator that does not have his own camera and that is restricted to view from only one teams perspective. This would allow for a very functional team captain. (I know this wasnt the original idea. But it is interesting. Someone that can see the overall situation and coordinate the team).

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Old 5th Dec 2000, 04:14 PM   #11
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1. The little hud idea has been done before. It was the translocator cam. It's pretty simple to do since all you're doing is opening another window with your teamview in it. If it's small enough it should have very little impact on performance.

2. Your "LAG" is not impacted by rendering. It's impacted by your connection. As long as your system can handle rendering the extra polygons you shouldn't have any lag.

3. Overhead maps?? Not to sound rude or anything but why don't we just copy the entire tribes setup altogether...Serioulsy though, this idea is a little more complex. I'm assuming you'd want a 2d rendering of a map? That would mean that everymap would need a 2d picture of it designed specifically for it. If the map was 3d then you probably would have some performance impact since you'd be rendering the entire "world" as it were in 3d...

4. As far as it being realistic, you can just think of a head camera mounted on all your teammates. You just switch to that teammate and view them.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the teamview changed into a little window like you're talking about. I often use teamview myself to see where the flag carrier is (if they're not vocal enough to tell me themselves). The problem with that (as you already know), is that you get killed while stading there defensless. I'd like to see a first person(not 3rd person) teammate view in a small hud in the corner of the screen, much like translocam. If you can do it go for it. If you can't I'm sure someone else would for ya.

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Old 5th Dec 2000, 06:04 PM   #12
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Actually, I think there already is an "overhead view" mutator out there. I seem to remember reading about it. I think it was just considered a cool gimmick, with no real value.
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Old 5th Dec 2000, 07:40 PM   #13
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Didn't the last incarnation of the X-com series have team members viewable in little windows?
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