Assault or Duel?

[Sportaçus]

I pretty much liked assualt in UT2k4 and the trials that came with it. I really never could understand how to do the trials, but it was still fun. The UT3 duel, I believe is useless. Why have a Duel gametype when you can just set up a Deathmatch server like it? I mean i really don't see people on the duel servers but there are plenty of them out there.

So give me your thoughts.
Assualt or Duel?

[JaFO]

At least Duel isn't broken by design ...

Heck ... if someone were to design a trial-gametype that had a que-ing (sp?) system like Duel then it might work.
Anything else is doomed to fail.

[UBerserker]

Neither of them. I generally never play 1vs1 matches. Assault? Hated it. Too much exploitable.

[Sportaçus]

Assault was awsome, I loved the maps.

[d3tox]

I agree that maybe the Duel gametype wasnt needed, but considering the number of people who supposedly play this game, even if we had assault you'd have a bunch of empty servers.

The thing about the Duel gametype is that is now sets a standard configuration of mutators etc used for 1v1. In Ut99 there was no such thing, and the result was the use of the no powerup mutator (which I preferred btw). This not only turned off the amp, but the belt and vials also. It's a pretty significant difference, but by Epic making this gametype (which probably didn't take much at all, other than a little refining of the DM/TDM gametype) they in effect set a standard for all to follow.

You're post seems like more of a complaint that Epic spent the time to make the Duel gametype, yet ignored Assault. The Duel gametype most likely isn't much more than an extension of TDM/DM, which they already had. Assault would have taken a lot more coding and bug testing, not to mention some support would have had to be in the editor for objectives etc. Apples and Oranges man, Apples and Oranges...

[TurdDrive]

Epic should have made assault

did'nt they learn anything in UT2k3

[Kantham]

What is Assualt?

[BooGiTyBoY]

Original Assault in UT = Awesomeness.
Assault in 2k4 = Half-Assed Vehicular Spamfest.
Jump Maps = Nails in the Assault Gametype Coffin.

[Fluorescence]

Originally Posted by BooGiTyBoY

Jump Maps = Nails in the Assault Gametype Coffin.

Infact Assault Trials (Jump Maps) are the only assault servers that are basically still alive.
Furthermore Bunny Track (Jump Maps for UT) still remain incredibly popular in UT and along with CTF are the main things still surviving on UT.


I Think trials for UT3 has become Bunny Track again? instead of assault. Nevertheless i loved Assault in UT/UT2004, especially the imaginative asssault maps in UT2004, that werent a spamfest of vehicles spawned on floating bsp (even though they were fun occasionally.)

[Interbellum]

Originally Posted by Icy

So give me your thoughts.
Assualt or Duel?

JB.

[SirTahngarth]

Originally Posted by Interbellum

JB.

We're working on it

[Dark Pulse]

Originally Posted by SirTahngarth

We're working on it

Work faster! *Shakes fist*

[Fuzz]

Come on, Duel is like Deathmatch with player limit 2. Assault is the most realistic gametype developed for FPS.

[Sportaçus]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Come on, Duel is like Deathmatch with player limit 2. Assault is the most realistic gametype developed for FPS.

Agreed.

[JohnDoe641]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Come on, Duel is like Deathmatch with player limit 2. Assault is the most realistic gametype developed for FPS.

lol

You have no idea how to play 1v1, do you? D:

[akstylish]

Epic should've made assault gametype and used the maps for campaign mode. It would've been much better than FLaGs.

[Fuzz]

Just out of curiosity, again, what makes assault a flawed gametype?

[JaFO]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Just out of curiosity, again, what makes assault a flawed gametype?

(1) it rewards veterans and punishes newbies, thereby making it next to impossible for new players to find their way in
If you don't know the map you'll fail. There's no way to survive or be a threat to an enemy regardless of your generic fps-skills, unless you know the map like the back of your hand. In any other gametype this isn't much of an issue.

(2) it rewards finding flaws and exploits in maps as less time spent travelling between objectives increases your chances of getting them done.
As maps will always have flaws (mostly due to lack of testing & quality-control) the one thing a gametype should not do is reward players for abusing the flaws present.

If assault was 'so great' then why couldn't the community build any decent maps to play ?
All those years playing should have resulted in a simple set of rules for a community to hire a bunch of coders & mappers to deliver the next-gen version.
Unless of course the community can't even agree on what is 'required' for Assault to be fun ...
In a way it is the racing/trick-maps that proved to be the only viable game-variant for Assault.

[Lostsoul]

Originally Posted by JaFO

(1) it rewards veterans and punishes newbies, thereby making it next to impossible for new players to find their way in
If you don't know the map you'll fail. There's no way to survive or be a threat to an enemy regardless of your generic fps-skills, unless you know the map like the back of your hand. In any other gametype this isn't much of an issue.

(2) it rewards finding flaws and exploits in maps as less time spent travelling between objectives increases your chances of getting them done.
As maps will always have flaws (mostly due to lack of testing & quality-control) the one thing a gametype should not do is reward players for abusing the flaws present.

If assault was 'so great' then why couldn't the community build any decent maps to play ?
All those years playing should have resulted in a simple set of rules for a community to hire a bunch of coders & mappers to deliver the next-gen version.
Unless of course the community can't even agree on what is 'required' for Assault to be fun ...
In a way it is the racing/trick-maps that proved to be the only viable game-variant for Assault.

1. So a game type that does not have fragging as the be all end all is some how bad? Other than the fact that you are wrong, I would think that is good. I have seen plenty of skilled DMers make a BIG impact on a AS match. Besides, shouldn't a vet have an upper hand? Find me one thing in the world where that is not true.

2. There are no flaws in AS, only tricks. Even Cliffy B said so.

3. 2k4 AS died with lack of maps because all the good mappers stayed with UT99, hence why they still get maps to this day.

4. Guide lines have ben established, the problen is that with 2k4, it is very difficult to do right, even Subrosa had to be edited, and Thrust was utter Crap. THe stock maps where fantastic and fun to this day. Props to EPic on making something so great.

[JaFO]

Originally Posted by Lostsoul

1. So a game type that does not have fragging as the be all end all is some how bad? Other than the fact that you are wrong, I would think that is good. I have seen plenty of skilled DMers make a BIG impact on a AS match. ...

I did not mean to say that fragging-skills should be the 'be all and end all' of a gametype.
I mean that being able to survive and be a threat to opponents should not depend on map-knowledge.
Key : "easy to learn / difficult to master" is what is needed.
Assault never was 'easy' to learn.

Besides, shouldn't a vet have an upper hand? Find me one thing in the world where that is not true.

there's a difference between having 'the upper hand' and being unstoppable.
In a gametype that can be within a minute (easily true for Assault) it's next to impossible to learn anything.

2. There are no flaws in AS, only tricks. Even Cliffy B said so.

tricks that are unknown to newbies create an impossibly steap learning-curve and result in a community that can't possibly grow.

4. Guide lines have ben established

if these are available then you wouldn't need Epic to re-create Assault for UT3, would you ?
Should be a piece of cake for a community as large and as dedicated to the game as the one for Assault ...

, the problen is that with 2k4, it is very difficult to do right, even Subrosa had to be edited, and Thrust was utter Crap.
....

.
Assault-maps for UT'99 pretty much requires the exact physics, movement & weapon-balance as was present in that game.
UT2kx (and UT3) drastically changed those aspects and thus make it impossible to port existing maps.

This is a problem for every gametype, but given the importance of these aspects for these maps in the gametype it pretty much broke any maps that depended on these features as soon as they changed.
This suggests to me that the maps were already broken back in UT'99 but the community had accepted those design-flaws as features.

Relying on broken/undocumented features always results in problems as no one can guaruantee that those items will be available in a new version.