New 40mms

yurch · Jan 11, 2004

Fixed M379's client effects online.
Tweaked more vars.
M67 now has similar explosion properties to the 40mm.
Did KW's ammodrop thingy.
Tweaked M433. Let me know if you get more of that multiple explosion thing.
M203 now works with a considerable amount of code to modify it. HK69 has this modification as well.
Yellow text is now (forcefully) disabled for both weapons - it was giving hundreds of out-of-bounds scriptwarnings. Inf's hud element is trying to use the old array.
Increased the size of the colored tip on 40mm skins.
Added seperate loadout info for m203.
Added Buckshot Rounds.

There's a large amount of code added in this version, and it's possible I missed something - let me know immediately about odd behavior related to the m16 or hk69 weaponry and ammo properties.

Still a 'beta'. I should start looking for a greyer smoke, although I'm starting to get attached to the effect in general.

Big_Duke_06 · Jan 11, 2004

Yurch: I'm sure you've already seen this, but here's a link to a page with very good charts on the markings of 40mm munitions:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/40.htm

Matthew

Bushwack · Jan 11, 2004

thanks for giving me my beloved Buckshot rounds back Yurch

*places croutons on the altar of Yurch*

*bows*

Meplat · Jan 11, 2004

Buckshot? Oh very nice. Many thanks!

Meplat-

Specter · Jan 11, 2004

Wow two different websites with the exact same information:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/40.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/40.htm

I think that some rounds should not be available for the M203. I've heard that since the M203 is a pump action grenade launcher some 40mm cartridges (mostly non or less lethal ones) that are slightly longer tend to not fit. The HK 69A1 doesn't have this problem since it is a break open grenade laucher. The HK 69A1 is capable of handling many different types of rounds like the ones shown in a picture here:
http://www.hkpro.com/hk69.htm

Also according to the globalsecurity.org site the M576 Buckshot round was used only in the M79 grenade launcher. In a description of the M79 launcher it states that the M576 buckshot round contained 27 pellets. In the mutator it says it only contains 22 pellets. Another minor detail is that the buckshot round in the mutator does not specify "caliber: 40x46mm" like the other 40mm rounds.

If you would like me to retexture the 40mm grenades I would be happy to. Unfortunately I don't have any way of importing/exporting Unreal Tournament textures. Someone would have to send me a copy of the textures in a common graphics format that I can edit and then I would send them back to be added into the mutator.

yurch · Jan 12, 2004

Specter said:
I think that some rounds should not be available for the M203. I've heard that since the M203 is a pump action grenade launcher some 40mm cartridges (mostly non or less lethal ones) that are slightly longer tend to not fit. The HK 69A1 doesn't have this problem since it is a break open grenade laucher. The HK 69A1 is capable of handling many different types of rounds like the ones shown in a picture here:

I don't think any of the rounds used here are a problem for an m203.

Also according to the globalsecurity.org site the M576 Buckshot round was used only in the M79 grenade launcher. In a description of the M79 launcher it states that the M576 buckshot round contained 27 pellets. In the mutator it says it only contains 22 pellets. Another minor detail is that the buckshot round in the mutator does not specify "caliber: 40x46mm" like the other 40mm rounds.

The pellet count comes from poaw, and I took the 40x46mm reference out because I don't think those are the dimensions of the shorter buckshot round.

Grunt11Bravo · Jan 12, 2004

I've heard that since the M203 is a pump action grenade launcher some 40mm cartridges (mostly non or less lethal ones) that are slightly longer tend to not fit.

Your information is incorrect. Even though the M203 is breech loading, pump-action (stupid misleading term IMHO), it is not throated or ramped. The parachute flares are almost twice the length of HE/HEDP rounds and I've never had a problem firing those.

There used to be a "buckshot" or anti-personnel round for the M203. I can't remember the nomenclature of the round off the top of my head nor can I locate my M203 manual.

As for the term "pellets", can you really call something the size of a .32 caliber round a pellet?

Demosthanese · Jan 12, 2004

The weapons, explosions, and smoke do not show up in demos. Also, demos do not play the sound of the explosion.

FieldMedic · Jan 12, 2004

So few time to play , and so much great new things to try everyday now.
Definitively great that INF is alive

Big_Duke_06 · Jan 12, 2004

Specter: Yeah, I've noticed that Global Sercurity and FAS have pretty much the same info presented pretty much the same way... Who came first and who's stealing? If they're not related in some way, there's a serious case of plagarism going on there...

Matthew

Tiffy · Jan 12, 2004

Grunt11Bravo said:
Your information is incorrect. Even though the M203 is breech loading, pump-action (stupid misleading term IMHO), it is not throated or ramped. The parachute flares are almost twice the length of HE/HEDP rounds and I've never had a problem firing those.

There used to be a "buckshot" or anti-personnel round for the M203. I can't remember the nomenclature of the round off the top of my head nor can I locate my M203 manual.

As for the term "pellets", can you really call something the size of a .32 caliber round a pellet?

M576MP is the "buckshot" round, I beleive.

SaraP · Jan 12, 2004

Big_Duke_06 said:
Specter: Yeah, I've noticed that Global Sercurity and FAS have pretty much the same info presented pretty much the same way... Who came first and who's stealing? If they're not related in some way, there's a serious case of plagarism going on there...

Matthew

Global Security is cribbing from FAS.

Big_Duke_06 · Jan 12, 2004

SaraP said:
Global Security is cribbing from FAS.

Thanks... Good to know. Interesting to note, I think that the GS pages look cleaner than the FAS pages... :lol:

Matthew

yurch · Jan 12, 2004

Demosthanese said:
The weapons, explosions, and smoke do not show up in demos. Also, demos do not play the sound of the explosion.

This might be something related to the serverpackages, as everything you describe is clientside.
Of course, I'm not familiar with how these demos work.

keihaswarrior · Jan 12, 2004

The mutator seems to work better now and I didn't get those huge fps hits with the HEDP. Also, the penetrating fragments make nice decals and stuff.

1) All the nades seem pretty weak damage wise especially the M67 (I could survive from only 4 ft away). From what I have read, the 40mm should kill people within 5m and injure within 15m, but it doesn't seem to do that. Also, the M67 is much much too weak.
2) When you have 0 of a certain ammo type, can you make it disappear from the cycle? It is annoying to have to rotate through ammo types you aren't carrying.
3) Visuals could still use some work. I suggest trying to make the smoke look more like one big cloud that dissipates rather than several small clouds that spread out. Also, the smoke is very dark, opaque, and stays too long.

Keep up the great work :tup:

yurch · Jan 12, 2004

keihaswarrior said:
1) All the nades seem pretty weak damage wise especially the M67 (I could survive from only 4 ft away). From what I have read, the 40mm should kill people within 5m and injure within 15m, but it doesn't seem to do that. Also, the M67 is much much too weak.

40mm's in general are very small grenades. Take a look at even the inf website. The m67 is stated as having a filler mass of 184.6g of composition-B explosive.
The 40mm is listed as having 32g of composition-B. Less than a fifth of an m67. I wouldn't consider a single one of these grenades very effective versus infantry without some exact placement.
What you've "read" are probably statistics related to M67's or other grenades. Most sources list 40mms as having a casualty radius of five meters. Not killing range, and not even a certainty of wounding. These things don't become magically effective within certain ranges. Shrapnel flies out, and if you're unlucky enough to be in it's path, you will get wounded. These grenades incapacitate through 'ground burst effect' (read - shrapnel), not concussion. (concussion is an even shorter-ranged effect)
This is more obviously more likely to happen if you're standing within a short range of the grenade, but laying prone just might save you from getting hurt entirely.

The 40mm grenades are now extrodinarily easy to place and it's gameplay suicide to keep them at thier unrealistic current same-as-m67 'blast' levels.

It's possible the current M67 doesn't put up "enough" shrapnel (and I do have to worry about performance), but they're real ass-kickers if you get hit with one - and they certainly don't stop flying after 15 meters. Armor and helmets can save.

As for the smoke 'staying too long', it's perfectly possible for dust to stay up for even longer in a non-windy stagnant area. Obscuring your target area through the dust of many explosions is a perfectly normal possiblity.

Edit: good quote from kuro:
1. Half of the people within 6 meters of the explosion are wounded.
2. Of those, only 10% die.
-James Dunnigan "How to Make War", Chapter 1, p. 44

Specter · Jan 12, 2004

I can see why you would not list the grenade as 40x46mm. The 46mm is the length of the case and not the entire cartridge, and it does look like the M576 is shorter from these sources:
http://www.autoweapons.com/products/destructivedevices.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/m79amo.gif
(I didn't notice that the short one with the black tip was labeled M576 Multipurpose until just now)

It might be easiest to just have "caliber: 40mm" since caliber is really just the bore diameter of the barrel. The case length isn't really important for the grenade launchers due to the fact that they can chamber various case (and cartridge) lengths.

Grunt11Bravo said:
As for the term "pellets", can you really call something the size of a .32 caliber round a pellet?

Yes:

keihaswarrior · Jan 13, 2004

yurch go test them. I know 40mm are supposed to be less powerful. But, the M67 especially is too weak. I can throw them 4 ft away and they don't kill me. Instead of adding more shrap, can't you just make all the shrap do more damage?
Also, the HE 40mm always says 5m casualty radius. Casualty in INF = dead because there is no real wound system. If you are heavily wounded in INF you are dead. IMO, anyone standing within 5m of point of impact with direct LOS should die unless they get extremely lucky AND are wearing both llla and a helmet.
On the other hand, if they prone and point their feet towards point of impact, they should probably live most of the time.

Can you post the link of where you got 32g for explosive filler? I couldn't find anything.

The dust is still too dark and opaque. I would try to make it like a very small white smoke grenade, but make the smoke darker and dirtier than WS.

Tiffy · Jan 13, 2004

Specter said:
I can see why you would not list the grenade as 40x46mm. The 46mm is the length of the case and not the entire cartridge, and it does look like the M576 is shorter from these sources:
http://www.autoweapons.com/products/destructivedevices.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/m79amo.gif
(I didn't notice that the short one with the black tip was labeled M576 Multipurpose until just now)

It might be easiest to just have "caliber: 40mm" since caliber is really just the bore diameter of the barrel. The case length isn't really important for the grenade launchers due to the fact that they can chamber various case (and cartridge) lengths.

Yes:

The M203 and HK can ONLY fire a 40x46mmR grenades. They will not chamber the 40x53mmR grenade as fired from the Mk19 automatice grenade launcher. In fact if you managed somehow (and short of a lot of brute force and ignorance this can't be done) to get a 40x53mmR grenade into your M203 etc you probably wouldn't live to regret it. The 40x53mmR round develops considerably more pressure and would split the gun tube of the M203 driving the breach piece back. As your the guy wrapped around this weapon as you fire it nothing good is going to come from this.

Specter · Jan 13, 2004

I knew that the Mk19 grenades launcher grenades were not able to be used in the M203 and HK 69A1. It does seem like different 40mm cartridges that are used in the M203 and HK 69A1 can vary in length. Most of the casings appear to be shorter like, the flare and multipurpose rounds:
http://www.autoweapons.com/photosn/40mmaug17f.jpg

The 40mm cartridges in the rear right of this picture also seem to have different cases:
http://www.hkpro.com/image/hk69ammo.jpg

Anyway, does this mean that the M576 Multipurpose round would be considered a 40x46mm grenade?

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