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]BloodForge[
10th Jan 2002, 08:11 PM
I am just curious as to the importance of zoning a DM level. The level I am currently working on is getting pretty big and I have yet to do any zoning. Does it affect framerate in gameplay? Does it affect rebuild time in the editor? etc..... Any help would be greatly appreciated.:D

Doc_EDo
10th Jan 2002, 09:42 PM
It helps the rendering engine and reduces chance for bsp and hom errors.

GoldenMouse
10th Jan 2002, 10:32 PM
A past map of mine, a DM, was developing massive BSP cuts for no apparent reason. I zoned, they disappeared. There is a maximum number of zones you can have, somewhere around 60 or 70 something. Somebody here knows the exact number.

Piece of advice: Even if you don't need zones, put them in anyways. Also, WHENEVER you have a zone without a zoneinfo actor in it, put "zoneinfo" in there somewhere. If you already have some sort of info in there, and it's a zone where players can normally go, i.e. water, but not lava, go under the zoneinfo properties to location string and put in a short description of that zone. This way, in games like TeamDM, you can tell where a buddy is asking for help or whatnot. Example: "Joe:I'm under heavy attack!" helps very little, but "Joe(courtyard):I'm under heavy attack!" tells you where to help. This sort of thing isn't noticed too often by people, but it adds that extra little bit of quality. I've been doing it to my more recent maps.

StoneViper
10th Jan 2002, 10:56 PM
the exact number of zones the unreal engine can handle is 64.

Zoning, why use it:

say you are playing this massive map; properly zoned. When you in a zone, all the info (textures, actors, etc) in that zone gets loaded. All the other zones textures, actors, etc also gets loaded (dropping framerates and causing that intermittant play stoppage. The more zones you are viewing at one time, the more **** gets loaded, thus dropping framerates. If you do not see a part of the map, placing zoneportals will tell it not to load all the info for that zone, since you won't be needing it anyway until you enter that zone. This is what allows large maps and small maps to play equally efficient.

Bot_40
11th Jan 2002, 03:55 AM
Never ever zone using large zone portal brushes. I never build a zone portal over 512x512 (except when it is vital such as for water etc.). This means NO zoning of outdoor areas whatsoever.

Doc_EDo
11th Jan 2002, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by Bot_40
Never ever zone using large zone portal brushes. I never build a zone portal over 512x512 (except when it is vital such as for water etc.). This means NO zoning of outdoor areas whatsoever.
I wouldn't agree. I made some big maps and one large had a few very big outdoor areas. I zoned them with very large zone portals even in the middle (like 12800x12800) and the map ran faster. No errors.

Hourences
11th Jan 2002, 11:04 AM
in general bot 40 is right, not cool for the fps mostly

RigorMortis
11th Jan 2002, 12:24 PM
well well well

look who decided to stop by... my good buddy blood, WHAT NO AVATAR!! *****!!! better install that photoshop!

didnt i already answer these questions for you blood?? what? no trust in Rig's mad @$$ skillzz!! :Poop:

]BloodForge[
11th Jan 2002, 04:26 PM
Thank all of you for the input. :) Oh and Golden Mouse thats a really good point about the team DM. I never even thought about that. I will be posting my first map(2nd map,first public) hopefully this weekend in the playtesting forum so keep an eye out for it. Any input will be GREATLY appreciated.:D

RigorMortis
11th Jan 2002, 04:29 PM
thats is a good point by goldenmouse...

i cant wait to see your map bloodforge, sounds cool... what is it like?? any teasers? a screenshot perhaps??? give us a taste!!

Seco_In_The_Bushes
11th Jan 2002, 04:52 PM
Regarding outdoor zoning.

The problem with large sheets is that instant hit weapons have trouble with them, and bots seem to think they are walls and wont see through them.

AMmayhem
11th Jan 2002, 05:30 PM
I put some zones in my map once, and I got bsp holes around the sheets that separated the zones. :confused:

Seco_In_The_Bushes
11th Jan 2002, 06:14 PM
It produces problems when non-solids go through solids. You should try to keep the borders small and squarish.

Beware. . . .

RigorMortis
11th Jan 2002, 09:47 PM
ive yet to encounter a problem with non-solids going thru solids... if you have solids going thru non-solids or anything going thru-semisolids then you ahave a problem. its all about the order of things... set all your non-solids and semi-solids order to last.

thats just what ive seen anyhow.

AMmayhem
11th Jan 2002, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Seco_In_The_Bushes
It produces problems when non-solids go through solids. You should try to keep the borders small and squarish.

Beware. . . .

That must be it, because they were trapezoidial doorways, but one of them was still a square and it still did it.

militaryspetproject
11th Jan 2002, 10:39 PM
Even I knew that Bloodforge!!!!!!!!! :eek2:

RigorMortis
11th Jan 2002, 10:43 PM
YO MILITARY!!! THAT AVATAR IS AWESOME!!!

:D

wyoming eh? you dont like it? wyoming ****ing rules!

militaryspetproject
11th Jan 2002, 10:48 PM
Yea some weirdo guy thats terrible at ut made it for me I cant remember his name..... Oh yes it was rigomortis! :shock:

RigorMortis
11th Jan 2002, 10:52 PM
HAHAHA

too bad that wierdo guy OWNZ Y()|_|r /\$$ every LMS!!!!!

rocket launcher baby... your sorry snipin' skillz are |_4|\/|3 again$t my shoc|< C()|\/||8o BEEATCH!


:cool:

StoneViper
12th Jan 2002, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by Doc_EDo

I wouldn't agree. I made some big maps and one large had a few very big outdoor areas. I zoned them with very large zone portals even in the middle (like 12800x12800) and the map ran faster. No errors.

usually abusing zoneportals this way causes a slower framerate. always use the smallest opening between two area as the place for zoneportals.

Seco_In_The_Bushes
12th Jan 2002, 11:00 AM
Mayhem, If your hallways are oddly shaped, you can always subtract a thin square and put the sheet inside of that.

RigorMortis
12th Jan 2002, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by StoneViper


...always use the smallest opening between two area as the place for zoneportals.

if you want to zone off the area you dont just dop the smallest opening... you have to do all openings between two areas... even the big ones. :) otherwise its still connected... ya dig?

StoneViper
13th Jan 2002, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by RigorMortis


if you want to zone off the area you dont just dop the smallest opening... you have to do all openings between two areas... even the big ones. :) otherwise its still connected... ya dig?

maybe you shouldn't be zoning off that area then. maybe it doesn't need to be zoned off. The area is an undivided room[/i]. Should you divide that room, it should be with brushes, not with zoneportals.

Doc_EDo
13th Jan 2002, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by StoneViper


maybe you shouldn't be zoning off that area then. maybe it doesn't need to be zoned off. The area is an undivided room[/i]. Should you divide that room, it should be with brushes, not with zoneportals.

They were large!!! No small openings.
If you zone something you can't see, like behind the mountain or so, the rendering engine doesn't need to 'think' about that area while you don't look at it...And my map runs faster now...

Look at AS-HighSpeed.
That map has huge zone portals...

Bot_40
13th Jan 2002, 06:02 PM
The only reason HighSpeed is zoned like that is so that when you fall off the train, you get killed. And also it is zoned down the length of the train so that each zone has it's own name so that if you say something to your team-mates it shows the zone name in the chat window.

Bot_40
13th Jan 2002, 06:07 PM
And if you still think that large zone portals speed up the game, read this page:
http://unreal.epicgames.com/Zones.htm

Or if you are lazy, here's the important bit:

For zones whose purpose is only to speed up the engine, your goal is to divide your level up into zones while introducing portals whose overall area is as small as possible. The smaller the portals, the less work the engine must do to process the portals. Therefore, we place our portals in passageways which naturally separate large areas, such as doorways and hallways. This approach causes the level to be divided up well, without adding too much portal area.

There is no benefit (and often a performance penalty) to placing portals in the middle of large rooms. These huge portals usually eat up more CPU time being processed than they save. Stick portals in doorways, hallways, and other narrow passages.



And that's straight from Epic who made the goddam engine :)

Doc_EDo
13th Jan 2002, 11:30 PM
Thx. It fooled me.

GoldenMouse
22nd Jan 2002, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by ]BloodForge[
Thank all of you for the input. :) Oh and Golden Mouse thats a really good point about the team DM. I never even thought about that. I will be posting my first map(2nd map,first public) hopefully this weekend in the playtesting forum so keep an eye out for it. Any input will be GREATLY appreciated.:D

lookin forward to it