Realism and INFiltration

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{GD}Ghost

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Mar 25, 2001
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During the time that my internet service was down, I finally had the time to get back to playing OP:FP. As I did, I couldn't help but get sucked into the realistic battlefield excitement as my team (bots) attacked a Soviet held town from a nearby treeline. As any true INF fan does, I began to compare the two and wonder why that feeling wasn't anywhere near as intense when I played INF. After much contemplation, I realized that the two could not really be compared because they are so different. But I did begin to realize why INF doesn't capture the spirit of teamwork and communication for which the Dev Team and many others strive. First I must say that while I feel that Op: FP more accurately captures that battlefield atmosphere, INF has accomplished things that no other game or game mod has done so far.

OpFP naturally allows for a more realistically tactical combat environment bacause its massive sized maps. Most of the time, you don't just know where the enemy is or from which direction an attack will originate. There are no choke points to rush to or spam with <insert weapon name>. You must actually use caution, stealth and cover/movement tactics if you are to even make it anywhere near accomplishing your goal (wheather that be taking out several Shilkas in a heavily fortified base or clearing a town of enemy presence.) There is no room for run n gun tactics here. Run n Gun n Die would be a more realistic appraisal of the situation if you tried those tactics in this game.

Marksmanship is the skill you need to perfect in Op:Fp if you want to survive, not your sprinting speed and your ability to spray an entire area with lead. Whoever can take their targets out at the furthest range usually wins the battle. I only use my '16 on semi when playing this game because at the distances at which you engage, even burst fire will throw your shot way off and cost you precious target re-acquisition time. I believe that this is consistant with real life. (Military personnel, please tell me if I'm wrong) I also like the way that Op:Fp handles the level of inaccuracy while trying to sprint and fire. 1). You cannot aim 2). If you do hit anything it is entirely and act of God and it must not have been your time to die yet. Because the barrel thrashes about so wildly you'd endanger your teammates before you would the enemy if you were to fire while sprinting.

I like and dislike Op:Fp's method of communication. It is rather involved and time consuming, but in the end is very precise and informative. (3 o'clock, enemy machine gunner 100m). You know right where to concentrate your fire. Now in INF, the maps are so small and the movement speeds (currently) so fast that even if you are using voice communication, the enemy has killed you and run past you before you could take your first breath to report their position or their activity. Voice communication in INF gives you only a slight advantage over the opposition that isn't using it and not the major advantage that it should.

Until the INF Team can get their hands on the Unreal Warfare engine it won't truely be able to get as good a handle on realism as some other games already have. I will say, however, that the Dev has done an outstanding job with the engine they have to work with. Thanx guys. I know I can go play Op:Fp if I like it so much and I do. ( You can jump in ANY vehicle and drive it for christ's sakes. I once escaped being killed by jumping in some farmer's tractor and "hauling ass" to the edge of a nearby forest while being fired on by a BMP) However if the best features of both games were combined into Infiltration in one form or another.......INF would be unstoppable.

Lastly, I'd like to say that using artificial restrictions in-game is completely ok as long as the result mirrors/represents RL limitations. (i.e., No military in the world is going to let you carry 8 different weapons w/ all the ammo you can strap to your person into battle) That was just one example.
 

yurch

Swinging the clue-by-four
May 21, 2001
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Big maps, with objectives.
That sums it all up there.

There aren't a maximum of 8 players with and against you. Therefore if you kill 2 and die, your team automatically wins if they do the same. Note that this is only the case in a gametype that involves killing off the enemy.
Not the case in a bigass map with hundreds of guys you can plow into if you are stupid enough to catch the attention of.

So how do you add more people to a 16 player game? Respawns.

Utopian summary: Some good gametypes will solve it all.

Lets envision something.
Big CTF map. Big enough that having to walk (or hitch a ride) accross is annoying, at least.
Therefore, if you die, you respawn back at the other side of the level. Theres also the unfortunate side effect of leaving all your attacking teammates one man down.
Bingo. Suicidal tendancies and "borderline idiotic rushing" down. Light loadouts are going to be more popular, because, damn, who wants to drag that **** accross the map every spawn? Even better if you make it so defenders have to walk a ways as well when they respawn.
Don't want to make a big map? Well just make a respawn timer based on bulk. Same thing, and prevents a bit of spawn camping, although if you leave your spawn open its your own damn fault.

"Marksmanship" and communication will come in greater force when it is needed. Especially in slower games - take a look at RA gameplay for that.
 

Keganator

White as Snow Moderator
Jun 19, 2001
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Which brings the Keganator back into the action.

UP with CTF! Up with BIG ASS MAPS and Objectives!



Example: Kosovo. This map SUCKS ASS in TDM. Even with RA, it really blows goats. Or cows. Or whatever. But in CTF, this is exaclty what you want; places to hide and run to. You can duck inside a building waiting for the enemy to pass you by (if they don't notice the glowing flag... :rolleyes: ) and then continue on. Or you can be suicidal and go the strait route across the map.



Which brings me back to my original problem: How do you summon people back from the dead! Where's the damn code that says, "Okay, you're allive, please respawn" !!! :mad:
 

jlamb_vo

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May 19, 2001
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Kosovo CTF would be great if it weren't for those godamn bridges.

I think that if maps were truly open or linear, even TDM wouldn't be so bad, but most of our maps right now follow a circle/figure-eight pattern.

Kosovo for instance, is divided by three bridges. If someone crosses the river, you simply have to guess which direction they will head becuase you can't just cross anywhere. If it were a true city-block grid with no chokepoints, you could at least sit and wait, one of you would have to cross paths eventually.

EP has this problem too... one of my top 5's, beautifully done streets etc, except that as a giant circle, you get stuck in last player countdown (another pet peeve), you have a 50-50% to finish the round basically.

Even realistic feeling maps like Kazahkstan and Siberia really feel like 'deathmatch'-veined map designs that just have a realistic facade.

IRL, Buildings are constructed concerning logic and functionality, and layed out in the landscape in the same way... not with spawn points and points of shootouts in mind.

I hate TDM just as much as the next guy, although a "seek and destroy" style mission would not be so bad if the environments were predictably based on their real-life counterparts, and people could estimate the direction of the enemy based on how someone would move through a functional facility, instead of getting lost in a maze of corridors and unlabeled doors.

Many people say they aren't doing well their first times because they 'don't know the map.' I don't think you SHOULD have to know the map necessarily regardless of what the objective is.

Chasm I think does a respectable job of this, save for the caves which take some getting used to... the biggest problem is when the base-side team decides to go down into the caverns instead of protecting the base, but thats where the ghost of TDM is creeping in.

Was this intended as an AS map or something? It sure seems like it.
 

rgreene

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Oct 16, 2000
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The only TDM map that I think really works well is Bellecourt. The reason for this is that there is only one way into the area where conflict arises, for both teams. This results in your team moving together, slowly. You don't have the problem of seeing some guy run at you from some corridor and having to figure out which team he is on. If they are facing you in Bellecourt, then there is a 99% chance that they are an enemy. This is exactly how I think INF should feel: slow moving, well organzied, team-based ass-kicking.
 

DamienW

I'm no stranger to sarcasm, sir
Feb 4, 2001
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Another thing : you played OFP in single player, and you fear death in Single player (especially me, since it takes 2 minutes to re-load the mission on my system :D )You don't fear death in INF, since you can respawn - wait for the next round.
That's a BIIIIG difference, guy ....
 

{GD}Ghost

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Mar 25, 2001
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BTW: I think many people would like to see more maps based on Real Life locations.

I agree that things will change once an objective based game type in introduced. Speaking of this: How about no re-spawns in an objective based game type. Each team has an objective with one round and one life with which to accomplish it. Too bad for the team that didn't value their one life and got killed Ramboing it or got their entire squad killed. Now the other team can cha-cha their way to complete their objective. I think this would put a little more value on their one life.
 

DamienW

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Feb 4, 2001
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No, ghost, since then, it will be far much easier to eliminate the other team than actually achieving the goal : See counter-strike, and tell me how many rounds end up by the freeing of all hostages ?
 

{GD}Ghost

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Mar 25, 2001
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Very true. This is how it should be. If your team can't avoid contact or defeat whatever contact they encounter, the other team will win. Yes, many times that will result in an entire team being wiped out before the goal is accomplished. Maybe there should be a much higher team/individual score for actually accomplishing the goal within a certain time frame.


I don't and won't play CS! :D
 

spm1138

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Aug 10, 2001
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A respawning system is neccesary for good tactical teamplay and a very carefully tuned one at that.

Damn, I must try and catch a CTF server full.

Stupid time difference :mad:
 

Guardian_BOB

Glitch! BFG!
Aug 28, 2001
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My 2 bits.
More maps like Enemy at the Gates running either as CTF or Assault or ?
E.atG.has great a great feel to it and the mortars and air strikes raining down adds to the challenge.
Will this run as CTF on Mutes beta CTF box ??

In Weapons Factory mods (Quake and UT) when the runner looses the flag, the flag remains for approx. 30 seconds (or depending on the assaulting force what feels like forever :eek: ) before it returns back to base, you don't return your own flag. This forces you to defend your flag where it lays. You can also capture at your flag stand regardless if your flag is home or not.
Is this option available in INF CTF ?

Slay ya later, Guardian_Bob.