Nvidia, PNY offer ultimate insult with 3Dfx rebate

[Phydeaux{RoA}]

This is ripped straight from NVNews.net (http://www.nvnews.net):

"Got Voodoo? - 11/28/2001 8:28 am
PNY's discounting the price of their GeForce lineup to all Voodoo owners interested in crossing over to the dark side. ;)

3dfx Owners Can Now Trade in Their Voodoo Graphics Card for a Verto(TM) Graphics Cards Featuring NVIDIA's High-Performance GPUs


PARSIPPANY, N.J. and SANTA CLARA, Calif., Nov. 26 /PRNewswire/ -- NVIDIA® Corporation (Nasdaq: NVDA - news), in conjunction with PNY Technologies, announced today the ``Got Voodoo - Get Verto'' online redemption promotion for 3dfx(TM) Voodoo(TM) graphics card owners. For a limited time, end-users can trade in their Voodoo graphics cards with the purchase of select models of PNY Verto graphics cards for a cash-back rebate. In addition, an NVIDIA ForceWare(TM) Game CD, which features a selection of games and applications optimized for advanced graphics technology will be included."

Ok, I admit - I was curious. In a moment of weakness I went to the old 3Dfx site and (after digging through page after page of marketing schmag detailing how great Nvidia and PNY are) finally got down to the business end of things (you may want to avert your eyes):


HOW TO GET YOUR VERTO/VOODOO REBATE (http://www.pny.com/home/products/rebate_instructions.cfm)
Promotion valid from November 26, 2001 to January 15, 2002

Trade-in your old Voodoo card when you buy a select PNY Verto graphics card and get Cash Back PLUS NVIDIA Forceware Game CD FREE!

The following is a list of the eligible Verto cards and rebate amounts:

VERTO CARD REBATE
GeForce 3 Ti 500
$30

GeForce 2 Ti 200
$15

GeForce 2 MX400 AGP
$10

GeForce 2 MX400 PCI
$10

All I can say is that, as a loyal 3Dfx owner, this is a slap in the face. You seriously think that I'm going to trade in a world-class video card that premiered for $399 for a mere 30 bucks? You can *still* get a Voodoo 5 card off Pricewatch (http://www.pricewatch.com) for a range that runs between $89 and $169! For a card that's dead, done, finito, it continues to hold value (for every OS short of XP). Somebody tell that to Nvidia, quick...

As for me, I've been on the fence (honestly) between ATI and Nvidia - I'm not about to let emotion color what ultimately has to be a cold, hard decision based on benchmarks, gaming performance in the games I play today, price, performance, and longevity. However, with this kind of insult, I am *very* tempted to say (all together now) "screw Nvidia and the PNY they rode in on."

This is mild-mannered Phy, out.

[Syri]

i think this is a very fair offer. think about it. 3Dfx are no longer around, so support for 3Dfx cards is getting scarse. there's more and more issues arrisingregarding 3Dfx cards all the time. It's getting to the point now where it's almost impossible to sell these cards second hand even! If you found someone who wanted to buy a 2nd hand 3dfx card, it's doubtful they'd pay $30 even, so to me, this seems a good offer at allowing users of an outdated and unsupported card to make an upgrade to a better performing and better supported card

[Loibisch]

Well, I too think that that $30 thing is a pos offer. Hell, remember, recently (a month ago) Gainward had a similar offer, and iirc it was $70-$75 they offered for ANY 3dfx card down to the voodoo graphics if you bought a GF3 off them.

Actually the idea is a total ripoff of the idea Gainward had, but nVidia really wants to screw you over.

[No Soup For You]

Those aren't Voodoo cards!? :confused:

[Phydeaux{RoA}]

Originally posted by [RSU]D-Stroya
i think this is a very fair offer. think about it. 3Dfx are no longer around, so support for 3Dfx cards is getting scarse. there's more and more issues arrisingregarding 3Dfx cards all the time. It's getting to the point now where it's almost impossible to sell these cards second hand even! If you found someone who wanted to buy a 2nd hand 3dfx card, it's doubtful they'd pay $30 even, so to me, this seems a good offer at allowing users of an outdated and unsupported card to make an upgrade to a better performing and better supported card

This is an interesting sentiment but not relevant to Phydeaux's First Law of Gaming - buy the best video card for what you do the most today for the lowest price. The Voodoo 5 still provides the best UT bang-for-the buck on the planet if you're running anything short of WinXP (and some have had success there, too, just not me).

First off, I concede that 3Dfx is out of business. Having said that, there is still tremendous grass-roots support with driver updates continuing to appear on a weekly basis. The FSAA implementation is still top-notch and I don't play UT (Glide, WinME) without 4x FSAA because I like being able to see crisp details at a great distance (especially for the CTF LGI 135/35 mode of gameplay that I favor). Viewing UT in WinXP with D3D was a *really* disheartening experience. The jaggies alone were like a step back into the Pong age compared to the FSAA that the Voodoo 5 churns out.

As far as "more and more issues" is concerned, the only biggie that I'm aware of is that Nvidia did not provide MS with Glide support for WinXP. The cards still work fine for D3D and OpenGL games.

For resale, they're selling, new, between $89 and $169 on Pricewatch and between $45 and $120 on e-bay. There is clearly a demand for what was once the hottest video card around and is *still* a very powerful card for certain systems. When I upgrade after Christmas, my kids' computer will be inheriting the Voodoo 5 and that's a huge step up from their Hercules MX card. There will be much praise for their "ugrade".

Finally, at 64 megs and with very functional FSAA, this is not at all an outdated card, it just no longer leads the pack. It's still supported by the grass-roots fanbase. If you're still limping along with a TNT2 or MX product, the Voodoo 5 is a fine upgrade at a great price point and will rock your world on a budget if you're a UT fan.

So, yeah, I'm offended that a company of PNY's fine reputation (sarcasm) is deigning to offer a whole 30 bucks for what was the most powerful consumer video card on the planet (not counting the elusive Voodoo 5 6000). I'd consider 50 bucks off a GF3 Ti 200 (which, in fact, Best Buy did this last weekend - $199 - $50 in-store discount - $50 mail-in rebate). But 30 bucks off an overpriced GF3? No thanks.

[Aside - c'mon ATI - I need an alternative here!] ;)

[SludgeX]

Well Phydeaux, I just paid $200 even for a Radeon 8500 OEM to replace my (aging) Voodoo 5 5500. It's the perfect alternative for your Voodoo.

In a strange coincedence, I was originally going to purchase the PNY GeForce3 Ti200 for $180 until I stumbled across the Radeon 8500 for $200. A 30-40% speed increase for only $20 more seemed like a good deal to me, so I went for it. :D

So long 3Dfx. It's been fun for the last 4 years, but it was time to move on to bigger, and (somewhat) better things. :(

[SkaarjMaster]

Yeah, I think this is a slap in the face for Voodoo owners. Of course, all I have is a small Voodoo 2 12 MB (but an ATI Rage Fury 32MB is plugged into this as 2 cards, but only one can run at once). I use the ATI for most of my games and the V2 for games that will only run with or run better with this card. Used V2 for Unreal, but haven't been able to notice a difference running UT (D3D for ATI, Glide for Voodoo). I run UT using the ATI, because it's supposed to have better graphics. Apparently, from some test results I've seen, the ATI card runs just a little better than V2, but not much. The Voodoo3 3000, which my brother owns, apparently runs better than my ATI.

Wanted to get a Voodoo 5 5500, but the timing wasn't right. Now, I'll probably get a GeForce 3 Ti 500. Does this run UT just as well as the V5 5500? Of course, I'm going to wait a bit for the price to go down. Also, considering the ATI Radeon 8500.

SkaarjMaster

[hyrulian]

I'm not letting go of my Voodoo 3 3000 PCI card !!

[Exar Kun [Sith]]

This offer is a joke. I got my V5 for $130 and it's been the best money I've spent upgradeing from my v3 2k. I could trade the v3 in for the 30 rebate but I bet if I put it up on ebay I could get more for it. Plus the v3 is pci and I'm hanging on to it as a backup card incase of emergencies. The V5 runs great I've heard of games having probs with it but I've ran the wolf mp2 test, ran fine, ran the ghost recon demo max everything, ran fine and people have had probs with it and it does say in the readme that the V5 is unsupported by this game. I've run avp2 single and multy play demos and has ran fine. I'm using the last offical driver set from 3dfx on win me. So I fell it will last me for quite awhile, I'll probably upgrade sometime down the road by then the Radeon 8500 will be in my price range and the drivers have improved.

[Phydeaux{RoA}]

...and I feel you have to watch them closely to get what you're looking for. I'm interested in the 8500 (retail) *if* they get one more driver drop that will cause UT performance to improve. I'm not interested in the OEM flavor because it's slightly underpowered compared to the Retail version.

I bought the Voodoo 5 for UT under WinME. I'm interested in a retail 8500 for UT under WinXP *if* I can find one for ~ $200 (the price range where I picked up my Voodoo card, ironically) sometime after Christmas. If not, I'll bite my lip and pick up a regular Gainward GF3 (*not* Ti), apply the best Detonator XP drivers, and overclock it just a little.

I just won't let them steal my Voodoo card for a song...

[Please, ATI, now's your chance! Hone your drivers and knock one out of the parK!]

[pine]

Originally posted by Phydeaux{RoA}

First off, I concede that 3Dfx is out of business. Having said that, there is still tremendous grass-roots support with driver updates continuing to appear on a weekly basis.

Only in this industry could a company go from the dominating presence to out of business with "grass-roots" support in a matter of a couple years. It's simply amazing.

This rebate is just a slap in the face. You're right. And if 3dfx were still alive it would be considered very dirty business tactics.

[Prophetus]

I understand and appreciate loyalty to quality products. I was the same way with the Amiga. When the announcement hit the Amiga community that no more Amigas would be supported by mainstream developers, I was outraged.

I was so upset, I completely left the computer scene. I hated IBM and IBM compatible computers. To me, they were inferior to the Amiga. However, IBM compatible computers became the new breed and because of my loyalty, I lost valuable experience and time during the computer era. It wasn't until three years ago I finally jumped back onto the computer bandwagon.

Moral of the story...

I learned being loyal to a product is a worthless endeavor and will eventually hinder your ability to personally advance. I'm not saying you must accept lower quality products, but don't be too loyal to any corporation...they really don't care. Sure, some products are worth being loyal to, but not in the computer universe. Times and formats change too quickly with anything related to computers...we must often bite the bullet and move on or be left behind.

[Tarantella]

Ive had my v5 running trouble free for a year now and until a better game than UT comes along I willl stick with it thankyou:)

[cryco]

Amigas RULED!!!!!
They were so ahead of IBM. *sigh*
Remember those dungeon master games? Or that other game with 4 players that split the screen and you have missions on different outposts and planets.. what the heck was the name of that one?

[Exar Kun [Sith]]

Well, I will upgrade one day but for now I'll just use the V5. What made me mad was the nvidia trolls (not everyone who owns a geforce card are bad) went around bad mouthing people who owned 3dfx cards right after 3dfx went under claiming that these cards were already obselete and that 3dfx card owners had to change immediately to a geforce card and no other brand. If I asked "what about a radeon or kyro 2?" they would go "no, those cards suck there is only one way".

Plus I find the FSAA quality on the V5 extremely good. The reason I'm looking at a radeon 8500 is that I hear it's fsaa quality is getting as good as a V5 and is cheaper than the geforce 3. I've seen comparision shots of both and right now the radeon 8500 has the better quality between the 2.

[Loibisch]

Originally posted by Prophetus
I learned being loyal to a product is a worthless endeavor and will eventually hinder your ability to personally advance. I'm not saying you must accept lower quality products, but don't be too loyal to any corporation...they really don't care. Sure, some products are worth being loyal to, but not in the computer universe. Times and formats change too quickly with anything related to computers...we must often bite the bullet and move on or be left behind.

I agree with you, partially. While the death of the Amiga clearly was something to me that struck me hard you gotta see that it's way another league. You can't compare the death of a whole computer system with 3dfx (it's only gfx cards :)). It's not like I have to trash all my hard and software jsut because 3dfx isn't around anymore.
That said I think it's a good thing to look for alternatives to nVidia cards, the company that did so many things to upset and "convert" the 3dfx community.
If I'm gonna get a new gfx card my money is with ATI :).


Originally posted by cryco
Amigas RULED!!!!!
They were so ahead of IBM. *sigh*
Remember those dungeon master games? Or that other game with 4 players that split the screen and you have missions on different outposts and planets.. what the heck was the name of that one?
I think you're talking of "Hired Guns"

[cryco]

yea!!!! hIREd gUNS, Woo0000ttt
How the heck did you remember? My description was semi-vague...

My buddies and I spent countless hours on that baby. Crazy game.

[Sir_Brizz]

I wouldn't buy anything from ATI. I remember the old days, when they touted wonderful graphics and TV-OUT!!! but then started on fire if you tried to REALLY do anything with them. The Radeon comes with a beautifully deisnged driver - Give up for the fake performance they want you to believe you have! >:-(

As far as the topic goes.... Atari? Does anyone remember Atari? I can remember back when Atari was the best. Everything was made for Atari, and now...well now you can't even buy an Atari, or anything similar. Does anyone know why Apple still exists? I sure as heck don't....

[Domon]

Originally posted by Sir_Brizz
Does anyone know why Apple still exists? I sure as heck don't....
Apple still exists because of the Macintosh. Macs are used in many gaming companies because of their strength in graphic work. Y'know, like Photoshop, Lightwave, Illustrator... those kinds of things.

I'm gonna end up buying a GeForce 2 (or something like that), though... that is, unless I can find a card that can handle video editing AND 3D acceleration.

Forgot to answer the question more directly, and did so.

[hal]

I've been a Voodoo owner for years, and as sad as untimely demise of the V5 is, I'm forced to ask the question:

What's so insulting (other than just being a ridiculously small rebate) about offering cash for trading in your card? The amount is so small that nobody that still uses their card, and plays UT would seriously be swayed by it. The only people that will jump on that offer are the ones that are looking for a card that has features the V5 doesn't have.

nVidia didn't kill the Voodoo cards... 3dfx did it with their poor fiscal management.

[Nemephosis]

There could be NO support and NO offer for a trade-in at all, and you could have to come up with the whole amount for a new vid card yourself.

You can't expect a card you bought a year ago, or however long like that, to be worth even half as much as you paid for. Hello, people, that's what happens to computer stuff. Prices hit rock bottom and keep going. If you think you can get a better deal from ebay, what's stopping you from trying? Put up an ad and link to it here so we can see the big bucks you're making off your card.

Brand loyalty means nothing to the companies. Your money does.

[Prophetus]

Loi, I wasn't comparing computers to graphics cards...I was demonstrating how loyalty to a product is not worth the effort. Things change and we must eventually change with it.

[ThunderBirdUT]

Ummm NAH!

Wait for ATI Fire GL 8800, it is KING of video processor EVER!

look this URL.

Click Here (http://www.ati.com/na/pages/products/workstation/firegl_8800/index.html)

Just wait for release and get it!

ThunderBirdUT
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ram2125/images/thunderbirdut.jpg

[ThunderBirdUT]

Originally posted by hal

nVidia didn't kill the Voodoo cards... 3dfx did it with their poor fiscal management.


Yes Correct Hal. Agreed.

ThunderBirdUT
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ram2125/images/thunderbirdut.jpg

[Loibisch]

Originally posted by Prophetus
Loi, I wasn't comparing computers to graphics cards...I was demonstrating how loyalty to a product is not worth the effort. Things change and we must eventually change with it.
Didn't mean you were. The thing is that not jumping on the PC wagon had definately a greater effect on you than me not jumping on the nvidia wagon has for me. In my case there is an alternative to use (and buy), which is ATI :).

However I'll decide what to buy when I wanna upgrade and have the money. Things can change, but atm my money would be with ATI.

[Sir_Brizz]

That ATI FireGL 8800 is an UPGRADE to the frickin old Diamond FireGL 3000 video cards that diamond sold to ATI when they were bought out by S3! Those things are H.U.D. (as I have a 3000) and it can't do jacksquat on Unreal (like I hoped it would) The thing is optimized for OGL, so you can guess that the D3D support blows (Red Faction sucks it up) and besides that, the card is DESIGNED for MCAD (like the old diamonds. They use the same card-layout as Diamond did) Good luck if you buy it. Maybe it will work a little bit better than the old 3000 did.

[Exar Kun [Sith]]

Still I think $50 would be more worth it than $30 or at least a $30 rebate across the board with all the cards than just $10-$15 for the lower end cards and $30 for the high end.

Plus there seems to be more than enough brand loyalists for nvidia across the net. People here say don't be loyal to one brand go for whatever is the best for your needs. To bad those loyalists would take this advice and stop bad mouthing the other card makers out there and vice versa with loyalists with other cards.

I use my V5 because it gets the job done right now and not alot of games need a geforce 3 or a Radeon 8500 yet. I can still play alot of new games on it with out a problem. The only thing that causes the voodoo cards to be obsolete is the drivers, I mean if the hardware is obsolete wouldn't alot of people with tnt2 cards and geforce1/early geforce2 cards be in the same boat? But with drivers they're still kicking and doing well. I wish that some how in the deal between 3dfx and nvidia, someone provided support, at least drivers, by one of the two or a 3rd party group.

[Rooster]

I think it's quite noble of them to offer YOU, A CONSUMER... money for a video card you would likely either never use again or put in a machine you really dont care what you put in it.

I think it's absurd for someone to think this is a slap in the face.

Fine, you pay ME to take that card off your hands... now that's a slap in the face.

It is utterly rediculuous and personally, I'm insulted that you (any of you chiming in on this bandwagon, HATE THE BIG GUY! attitude) would dare criticize a company for doing this. They don't OWE anyone anything. They are providing a VERY good tactic to draw customers.

If you don't like what they're offering you - don't take them up on it - but to act like you're offended by them offering you money for something you likely don't want (if you're considering upgrading) anyway (and that has NO resale value to speak of) is insanity.

Grrr :mad:

[Nemephosis]

It's like I said, rooster. If you guys can get better than $30 anywhere else, like on ebay, let's see a link advertising your product so we can keep an eye on your auction and how much you're pulling in.

Also like I said, they don't even have to be doing this at all. They could stick you with your outdated unsupported cards and you'd have to shell out the whole amount for a new one.

[Rooster]

Yeah, I was going to quote you saying, "what he said".. .but I felt a bit more strongly about it, so I wrote my own.

[ThunderBirdUT]

Originally posted by Sir_Brizz
That ATI FireGL 8800 is an UPGRADE to the frickin old Diamond FireGL 3000 video cards that diamond sold to ATI when they were bought out by S3! Those things are H.U.D. (as I have a 3000) and it can't do jacksquat on Unreal (like I hoped it would) The thing is optimized for OGL, so you can guess that the D3D support blows (Red Faction sucks it up) and besides that, the card is DESIGNED for MCAD (like the old diamonds. They use the same card-layout as Diamond did) Good luck if you buy it. Maybe it will work a little bit better than the old 3000 did.


ATI FireGL 8800 and Diamond FireGL xxxx are HUGE different. :)

Old Diamond FireGL is DISCOUNTINUED.

ATI FireGL 8800 is faster than ever all video products.

I have see this card and run Qauke III and Unreal over 137 FPS with in over 1200 x 1600 something ( I saw smallest icons), and ran with full selections such 32bit colors, high,max etc.. it is DAMN FASTEST!... I saw it in Las Vegas ATI show!!!! I said H:eek:LLY $HIT! you gonna love this! and goona see this!


ThunderBirdUT
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ram2125/images/thunderbirdut.jpg

[SimplyCosmic]

You know, when it comes to ATI, the hardware is almost secondary to my considerations.

I've had both an ATI Rage Fury Pro and currently an ATI Radeon 64MB DDR (now a 7200).

And while I was never really unhappy with the hardware itself, I've never really felt satisfied with ATI's track record with driver development.

The same complaints and promises you hear about the Radeons, I heard about the ATI's back when they were competing against the TNT series of NVidia cards. "Great hardware, but the drivers need work" or "We're going to get on top of driver development real soon now".

ATI was supposed to have changed during their initial Radeon releases, but driver support still isn't there. Now I'm hearing the same claims about the new Radeons.

Meh.

[ThunderBirdUT]

Originally posted by SimplyCosmic
You know, when it comes to ATI, the hardware is almost secondary to my considerations.

I've had both an ATI Rage Fury Pro and currently an ATI Radeon 64MB DDR (now a 7200).

And while I was never really unhappy with the hardware itself, I've never really felt satisfied with ATI's track record with driver development.

The same complaints and promises you hear about the Radeons, I heard about the ATI's back when they were competing against the TNT series of NVidia cards. "Great hardware, but the drivers need work" or "We're going to get on top of driver development real soon now".

ATI was supposed to have changed during their initial Radeon releases, but driver support still isn't there. Now I'm hearing the same claims about the new Radeons.


Meh.


Umm...

I have ATI radeon 8500 DDR 64MB AGP.

I NEVER get problems with it. I am totally happier with it. it is FASTEST!.. I use it for Quake 3 and UT.. perfectly running.

I do not know why you have problems with it.

I do not need update drivers. today drivers are perfect for me.

ThunderBirdUT
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ram2125/images/thunderbirdut.jpg

[SimplyCosmic]

I have an ATI Radeon 64MB DDR, which is now known as the 7200.

The problem is that ATI never really supports their video cards with timely updates to their drivers. In the entire time the original Radeons were out, untill the 7500's and 8500's were realeased, there were only two official driver releases.

Your experiences are going to be different because you have the latest card. What I'm upset by is how I've heard ATI promise over and over again how their driver support is going to improve real soon. Often times, they use that excuse just before releasing a new video card. The problem is that I seriously still don't believe that ATI has supported their previous cards properly, and instead just move onto the next card, stranding the rest of us.

I'd actually wouldn't be surprised to see no more official updates to the drivers for the original Radeons, which are only a year old.

[Phydeaux{RoA}]

Originally posted by Rooster
I think it's quite noble of them to offer YOU, A CONSUMER... money for a video card you would likely either never use again or put in a machine you really dont care what you put in it.

*Noble*? It'd be noble if they gave *their* card away. ;)

If it were LeadTek or Gainward or another reputable card company, and if they were offering $50 off a GF3 Ti 200, I'd think differently. (After all, BestBuy was moving the VisionTek Ti 200 for a net price of $99 the day after Thanksgiving. They were able to do $20 more without requiring your Voodoo card in return.)

What has PNY done for the vid card industry? What pedigree do they offer? I can't escape that it feels like they're dismissing a card and a technology that is *still* legendary in the UT community, and for good reason. The Voodoo 5 is not completely worthless at this point in time and that's how this offer comes across to me.

I think it's absurd for someone to think this is a slap in the face.

I think it's absurd that you think it's absurd! ;)

If you don't like what they're offering you - don't take them up on it - but to act like you're offended by them offering you money for something you likely don't want (if you're considering upgrading) anyway (and that has NO resale value to speak of) is insanity.

First off, I'm not "acting" like I'm offended, I'm legitimately offended (not, true, in a "they flew a jet into our building" kinda way but in a Nike vs. Reebok way).

Second, while it is true that I'm in the market for a new vid card, it's not to keep up with the Joneses or because my card doesn't ROCK playing the games I play most, it's because it's not supported to its fullest potential in the OS that I've upgraded to. My Voodoo 5 5500 AGP cranks out gorgeous 4x FSAA in 1024x768 under WinME without breaking a sweat. If I weren't so enamoured with XP or if Glide were supported in XP, I wouldn't be in the market for a new Vid Card in the first place...

Third, I addressed the "no resale value" myth in my initial post. Voodoo 5 cards are powerul, attactive to budget UT gamers with more humble existing cards, and still a better card than you'll get without anything south of the Ti 200 at twice the price. Pricewatch had them going for $89 - $169 and ebay had auctions that ran up to $120. This, clearly, is not a red-headed stepchild card - it's only being marketed that way by the competition, and I'm not yet willing to throw the old guy on the cart just yet.

Roo, you know I think the world of you -- I picked up this Voodoo because of your UT raves -- but I'm not prepared to bail on a perfectly good card just because, you know, the company is gone. ;) This card is going to my kids when I upgrade, and they can't wait. Their Hercules MX card is a fine card, but it just doesn't have that special Voodoo that my card has...

[Syri]

ok all you "3Dfx is god" people, why 3Dfx doesn't work well with D3D and OpenGL : 3Dfx wanted everyone to use glide, and when 3Dfx was the only option, everyone did use glide. However, when 3Dfx tried to monopolise the market by producing it's own boards and denying everyone else access to the chipsets, people started to turn to other cards, like the nvidia, s3, matrox and ATI ranges. 3Dfx stuck to their guns though, and didn't bother to fully implement d3d and ogl, choosing instead to write drivers to translate commands to glide. Now that 3dfx are no more, the d3d drivers are horribly out of date, and the open gl wasnever complete in the first place, they only bothered to convert the open gl functions in use at the time for games like quake.
To sum it up, lack of driver development means old redundant 3dfx drivers don't understand what the functions are that new games are trying to tell it to do

it is because of this, that 3Dfx cards have virtually NO FACE VALUE now! 3Dfx screwed up! Plain and simple! they made a product that couldn't live without support, then they angered everyone to the point they stopped supporting it! FFS! stop saying "Oh, nvidia are evil! they want to give me £30 for my voodoo i paid £200 for!" be glad you can get that £30 for that piece of plastic that is by all other means worth nothing!

[SkaarjMaster]

I'm with you Phydeaux, it is a slap in the face. Even though I haven't seen it first hand (only have a V2 for games that won't run on my ATI Rage Fury), I believe everyone when they say Voodoo is the best for UT. I almost bought a V5-5500, but decided to upgrade other things on my computer that needed it more. My brother has the V3-3000 PCI and it works great, even though he only has a 15" monitor. I would love to see the results of a V5-5500 AGP on a 19" or 21" monitor! See Ya!

SkaarjMaster (aka Someone Else)

[Phydeaux{RoA}]

Originally posted by SkaarjMaster
I would love to see the results of a V5-5500 AGP on a 19" or 21" monitor!

I'm running my V5 in Glide in WinME on my 21" Mitsubishi monitor - it's a beautiful thing... :)

However, I fell in love with WinXP and something had to give. It took some soul-searching but I had to go with XP. I will be upgrading this Holiday season to whichever is the best product at the best price at the time, nvidia or ATI. I feel a little kinship with the Amiga guys as I knowingly walk away from something that was really special in its day. I'm holding out a secret hope that the NV30 will incorporate some of the 3Dfx voodoo magic come next summer...

[hyrulian]

Originally posted by Phydeaux{RoA}
However, I fell in love with WinXP and something had to give. It took some soul-searching but I had to go with XP.

Don't fret; you can have your Windows XP and keep your Glide too!

Check out this article: http://ansible.homeip.net:8080/tutorials/winxp_3dfx/winxp_3dfx.html

[Phydeaux{RoA}]

Originally posted by [BuF]h.h.


Don't fret; you can have your Windows XP and keep your Glide too!

Cool. I'll try that! If it works, I'll hold off any any vid card purchases until Unreal II.

[SkaarjMaster]

Yeah, I'm holding off until Unreal 2 also; but, in the meantime, I'm hoping to upgrade my speakers and soundcard to Dolby 5.1 surround sound and then upgrade my slot1 MB (also, CPU, RAM). Hopefully, I'll be able to do this and get the new video card when it comes out. The GeForce3 Ti500 is my first choice now; maybe it or a even more recently released GeF card will be less expensive by then.

Phydeaux, does your V5 run better in Win98SE, 2000, ME or XP with the best drivers for each. I just upgraded from Win98 to Win98SE and plan to stick with that for a while; at least until I stop playing my DOS games once in a great while.

What's the NV30?

SkaarjMaster (aka Someone Else)

[Exar Kun [Sith]]

Phydeaux: If that tutorial doesn't work search around for 3dfx community drivers there are quite a few that are made that are win xp compatible. I have to warn you use at own risk of course, but some people have had great success.

SkaarjMaster: I run my V5 on winme on the last offical driver set and it's rock solid stable and has had great success with recent games like ghost recon demo, avp2 demos, and the wolf mp test2. I did use win98se on my V3 2k pci before my V5, and I used the last offical set for it too. It was stable and fast. I don't know about win 2k though, haven't used it or XP.

The NV 30 I think is going to be the next big nvidia chipset. (rumor is that maybe it will use 3dfx tech in it) I think the geforce3s use the NV 20 and there is talk of a NV 25 which is either a geforce3 ultra(or some varient) or maybe the geforce 4. If the NV25 ends up being a varient geforce3 then the NV 30 will be the geforce 4 if not then the NV 30 could be a geforce 5(?). This is speculation cause it's kind of hush hush as to what these chips will end up being.

Hope it helps:)

[SkaarjMaster]

I hate to do this, but know not many people check the Troubleshooting section (at least not as much as here) and I'm not starting a complete new thread, but my brother is having trouble with his Voodoo3 3000 PCI/SBLiveValue combo; please check the Troubleshooting section for a post by Devatas. Thank you.

SkaarjMaster

[Prophetus]

SC, it's unfair to say ATI doesn't put out timely drivers. They did have six drivers out for the Radeon cards using Win9x and WinMe operating systems.

4.12.3056 First official (fully whql certified) driver

4.13.7075 second official (fully whql certified) driver

4.13.7093 third driver non whql certified

4.13.7103 fourth driver non whql certified

4.13.7115 fifth driver non whql certified

4.13.7189 sixth official (fully whql certified) driver

(same amount of drivers for the Win2k OS, just different numbers)

nVidia has a worse driver track record. They only released three drivers for the Win9X and WinMe operating systems (according to their archives (http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=pg_20010907943252) page. Two of which were beta drivers.

The one thing ATI doesn't have, is the luxury of third party graphic card companies, ie...Creative. These companies can create more drivers based off the reference drivers. Therefore, it appears nVidia products have an outstanding driver release record.

To compensate, ATI does allow their fans/community to enhance, tweak or recreate existing drivers, even to the point of renaming the drivers and claiming ownership. www.rage3d.com is one such site/community where you can find custom drivers for all ATI products. I've lost count on how many drivers were released by the community, but there were a lot.

ATI may not be able to please everyone, but they are trying. Compared to what they used to be like, I believe ATI is providing great support.

[Rooster]

Actually, you're quite wrong Proph.

ATI has very few driver releases and most are quite buggy - one thing or another doesn't work properly.

nVidia has MANY beta releases. Probably 7 times as many as you listed for ATI.

And rarely does ANYONE use non-reference drivers for their nVidia cards. Everyone uses the nVidia reference stuff. So don't try to put any "blame" on nVidia's card producers.

nVidia has released (subtley) to various sources the ability to tweak things ... but unlike ATI - these are "secrets" that are unlocked that are actually part of the normal drivers - not rough hacks by end users. You're only asking for trouble putting your software in the hands of the end user saying "We can't figure out nor can we be bothered to take the time, you try it." Not exactly the attitude I'd want from a video card manufacturer.

You would be the first person I've ever heard to say nVidia has a bad record when it comes to drivers. I don't really think you could find 2 other people to agree with you.

Keep in mind, this is a friendly debate and I'd never jump your ..... without knowing what I'm talking about (and you know I'm not an nVidia fanboy). :D

[Prophetus]

Rooster, I'm only going by what is on nVidia's site. They only list three reference drivers. As of yet, I don't see any evidence of "tons" of beta drivers.

True, they may exist, but then again, ATI has "tons" of beta drivers out...just not created by ATI themselves.

Know this, I am only comparing Geforce 2 with Radeon drivers (pre 8500)...not the whole history of every card. And I'm just saying it's unfair to say ATI ISN'T supporting their customers with driver support. IMO, they do support us. Sure, ATI drivers may be buggy for some people, but show me where every nVidia user is bug free.

People have problems with every card and driver. Out of all six drivers released by ATI...only one was buggy for me...the first one. It had a problem with "show web content on my active desktop" and some OpenGL issues. All the other drivers worked great for me. More than I can say for the nVidia cards I've owned.

EDIT: I see four, not three released nVidia reference drivers for 9x OS's.

[Rooster]

nVidia doesn't keep their old ones around as long as others, because they don't need to.

Keep in mind, nVidia writes drivers for ALL cards in one driver set - if you want to honestly compare ... you'd have to multiply each version times the number of cards it supports (ie, TNT, TNT2, GeForce, GeForce2, GeForce2 MX, GeForce2 MX 400, GeForce2 Ti, GeForce3, GeForce3 Ti200, GeForce3 Ti500) - so .. if they released 4 official versions, that means they've released 40 official drivers for their line. Now, count all the beta drivers they release - you're looking at well over 300 drivers.

You may not realise this, but most of the recent ATI drivers did not support capabilities they said their hardware could provide. That is misleading the consumer. I certainly don't want to support a company that intentionally misleads their consumer. "Yeah, our latest card can do TruForm! But too bad, we don't have any drivers that actually make it usable!"

I never said anything about nVidia's drivers being bug free. But they are in general much more reliable than any other companies drivers. Would you honestly want to use drivers written by someone other than the card chipset designer? I never would. I don't care what site it is, they don't know the ins and outs of the card like the designers do. I think it shows really poor management and quality control to turn over or depend on someone else to make your hardware work. To me, that's pitiful. One of the beneficial things about the nVidia driver releases is that if your system does have an issue with version 22.40, you could try 22.50 or 22.80. Yeah, it would be nice to say - this version will work for everyone every time, but with different board manufacturers and some very complex system configurations and settings, you're not going to be able to get it right in one shot. And I'm not expecting ATI to do that with "one" driver - but when they have decent hardware (which they do, with the Radeon line) - they MUST support it 100% with drivers. They released the Radeon line.. and took nearly 2 months to get drivers to the public that actually made the card do what they said it would do.

Gah.. gotta go, company! :D

[SimplyCosmic]

Additionally, ATI's support for Windows 2000 (and now XP) has been terrible. The difference between 9x and 2K performance for ATI cards is wildly different, whereas NVidia has managed to get within 1% of each other.

I've had an ATI Rage Fury and a Radeon 64MB DDR, along with NVidia cards dating back to the TNT1, and the difference in support is more than enough to make me give NVidia the edge.

ATI makes wonderful cards, and you really can't beat the prices. And having pretty much all but dropped driver development for the original Radeon cards after only a year is too similiar to what happened to the Rage Fury and other ATI cards before it.

My next card will be a NVidia, because while it'll no doubt be more expensive, I trust it to run better and be more supported on my XP system.

[SkaarjMaster]

GeForce3 Ti 500 or higher will definitely be my next video card. Does anyone check the Troubleshooting section anymore? Check the post by Devatas (my brother). Thanks.

SkaarjMaster

[Sir_Brizz]

I don't think ATI has ever kept making drivers for their chipsets once they design a new one. Unfortunate for them, bad PR. Kind of like Atari, bu they ahve better advertising. I agree that the Radeon is a great chip, but I'm waiting for the next chipset to come along, and so long for support of the Radeon.

I have never had a problem with ANY nVidia driver I have ever used. I have PERFORMANCE issues, but those have nothing to do with glitches and bugs. All of the drivers (retail release and beta) have worked without any problems (and I'm using ME, go figure). Ever since nVidia released the Riva 128, they have had excellent support for their cards, and while the Riva 128 (a 4-5 year old chipset) has been dropped from support, all cards from then on continue to be supported. This includes all of the economy models of every chipset. Vanta LT, Vanta, TNT m64, TNT 1, TNT2, TNT2 Ultra, GeForce, GeForce DDR, GeForce 2 MX/200, GeForce 2 MX, GeForce 2 MX/400, GeForce 2, GeForce 2 GTS, GeForce 2 Ti150, GeForce 3, GeForce 3 Ti200, GeForce 3 Ti500, GeForce 3 Ultra....ETC This isn't even all the forms of their chipsets that are supported with their reference drivers.... is there any other company that has ONE driver for all of their cards? Even two or three?? None that I have ever heard of......

[Xayd]

Originally posted by SimplyCosmic
Additionally, ATI's support for Windows 2000 (and now XP) has been terrible. The difference between 9x and 2K performance for ATI cards is wildly different, whereas NVidia has managed to get within 1% of each other.



Indeed, and this is why I haven't made the switch yet. I'm still on my Voodoo5 as well, but was truly impressed with the Radeon's image quality. The colors are so much sharper than anything else out there, and I was pretty close to buying one if for no other reason than for having the video ins/outs to make VCDs of my VHS tapes with ;).

But, when my brother got one, he was getting 105-110 frames in 98FE, and only 60 in Win2k. That's completely lazy and unacceptable on ATI's part. Then they pull this stunt with modifying Quake through the vid card driver to make them appear faster in benchmarks? No thanks. Just last month did ATI release Radeon drivers that performed adequately in Win2k, and the Radeon line is what, almost a year old? Maybe more?

Hint hint, ATI, the Win9x kernel is dead (thank god). You're gonna have to actually make NT drivers that work now, or you're just throwing money away trying to compete with nVidia.

I might buy a Radeon 64 VIVO, since I know the drivers work now, but I'll never buy a new ATI product off the shelf.

[Exar Kun [Sith]]

Well Xayd the 9x kernal isn't completly dead. There won't be any new versions being made. There are alot of people using 9x systems, so all hardware makers will have to be continue to make win 9x drivers.


On nvidia having one driver set for all their cards makes me wonder how much their technology has improved from tnts to geforce3s. I can understand having the same driver for paticular series like a driver for tnt series and a driver for geforce2 cards and one for geforce3s. I understand that they improve on the tech on each generation but wouldn't the older cards start to hold back the newer cards on the driver side? The drivers are only about 3 to 6 megs in size so they can put in everything that each card can do and have all the advance features that alot of the older cards don't have?

Also why is it with their detonators that they claim 50% speed increases? It's as if that the new drivers some how unlock new unfound speed they didn't realize was there when they first released the card. Why don't they have their cards at their fullest potential when their first released. I can understand improvements later to get better performance and maybe some more speed but 50% is kind of alot. Sounds like to me nvidia holds back on their cards power and then releases drivers later that will speed them up to better compete with newer competitor products.

[SkaarjMaster]

I, for one, am still running Win98SE and will not upgrade until I have to. This runs fine for me. I think Microsoft needs to get all the bugs out and all the support in-place before releasing OS's to the public. This may be a lengthy process, but it may be worth it in the long run; but it will never happen. Not in today's $$$ world!

Maybe, this would make driver support better also?!

SkaarjMaster (aka Someone Else)

[Sir_Brizz]

The reason detonator drivers offer different amounts of performance is precisely that. There are tons of reference drivers, and they all perform differently for different systems. For example, I get a 20% performance increase on my machine with the 21.80 driver versus the 21.83.

Also, the newer cards support HARDWARE advantages, so all they have to do is decide what card you have, and leave off the features that it can't do....not that hard, if you ask me. For example, if you have a GeForce 2, which doesn't support Pixel Shader 1.1, and someone else has the GF3 with the PS, then your driver would leave off the support for the PS, while the other person would have it included. Makes sense doesn't it? It's not that hard (especially since all of nVidia's chipsets are based on the same chip, the NV1, IOW, they all have the same type of structure)

[TomWithTheWeather]

Originally posted by Prophetus
Loi, I wasn't comparing computers to graphics cards...I was demonstrating how loyalty to a product is not worth the effort. Things change and we must eventually change with it.

Very True! Its kinda stupid to remain loyal to a company or product, especially in the computer world. I have a geforce3 and the only reason Ive still got my voodoo3 (in a box , in the closet ;) ) is so I can built a second computer if I ever ge around to buying another harddisk. :)

Voodoo's WERE great cards (and still are if all you do is play older games) but youve got to move on sooner or later unless you just sell your computer and stop playing games all together.

[Exar Kun [Sith]]

So Sir_Brizz what your telling me is that geforce3s are actually very heavily modified and upgraded version of a tnt card(since they are all based on the same chipset which also gets upgraded). Which would explain then the ability to use a universal driver since then the tnt is very bare boned compared to the geforce3. So the tnt gets the default support and what little bit it needs while the geforce3 gets the default and everything else it needs. Ok I think I'm starting to get the idea now.

[Rooster]

Yup, just like the Pentium III is really still a suped up 486 (I didn't say 286, cause the it didn;t have the FPU on chip).

Each iteration of chip has new features, but still contains the old ones. Therefore, you can just "add" to your driver functionality.

[PsychoMoggieBagpuss]

Originally posted by Exar Kun [Sith]
Also why is it with their detonators that they claim 50% speed increases? It's as if that the new drivers some how unlock new unfound speed they didn't realize was there when they first released the card. Why don't they have their cards at their fullest potential when their first released. I can understand improvements later to get better performance and maybe some more speed but 50% is kind of alot. Sounds like to me nvidia holds back on their cards power and then releases drivers later that will speed them up to better compete with newer competitor products.

From that paragraph I assume you don't work in a software engineering field. A simple optimisation of a repetitive function (so it takes one pass instead of two etc) could give a HUGE speed increase.
Its a tribute to the SW Engineering team of Nvidia that each significant detenator gives a noticeable performance increase (the larger increase always happens on the newest cards btw) that they are able to squeeze that out of their drivers.

[ThunderBirdUT]

Geez.... I see alot different problems with different video cards...

I have 7 (seven) computers at home.

I use:
2 voodoo5 5500 agp in 2 PCs.
2 ATI Radeon 8500 AGP DDR in 2 PCs.
1 Nvidia TNT2 Ultra in 1 PC.
1 Nvidia GeForce2 Ultra in 1 PC.
1 Voodoo3 3500 in 1 PC.

So all ATI and 3DFX have NEVER problems with me at all.. and did not keep update drivers.

Nvidia have problems with me and I have keep to updte drivers then some works and some not works.

the most I pick as I like is ATI products because ATI is still running. 3DFX sad goodbye. I missed them so much!

Well why 7 computers, my freinds and I am team players for UT and Quake II / III. fun!! also seprate PC each my wife, and myself and new child. (I WANT MY DAMN OWN PC NO ONE USE MINE!) :)



Also I noticed some ppl keep download lastest version of driver WITHOUT problems with it.. that's NUTS!!! should stay drivers if no problems.

ThunderBirdUT
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ram2125/images/thunderbirdut.jpg

[Exar Kun [Sith]]

Originally posted by PsychoMoggieBagpuss|BuF


From that paragraph I assume you don't work in a software engineering field. A simple optimisation of a repetitive function (so it takes one pass instead of two etc) could give a HUGE speed increase.
Its a tribute to the SW Engineering team of Nvidia that each significant detenator gives a noticeable performance increase (the larger increase always happens on the newest cards btw) that they are able to squeeze that out of their drivers.

Well actually I'm studying now in software programming but not too deep in it yet. I get the idea of optimisation and it probably helps the newer cards alot but with the older cards it'll be like squeezeing blood from a stone to get a really a noticeable increase.

[Sir_Brizz]

Nvidia have problems with me and I have keep to updte drivers then some works and some not works.

Is anyone else haveing a hrd time trying to figure out what Thunderbird is saying?

Hey, I just found out that if I install the drivers that CAME WITH MY CARD (which are probably built off Detonator 1) I never have to reinstall the drivers again!!! (I just get 3 fps in Doom2.)

And yes. All chip makers build their newer chips off of their older chips. Intel, AMD, Cyrix, IBM, nVidia, ATI, 3dfx (used to, why do you think they are all VOODOO), PNY, etc etc etc. It's kind of obvious, "why reinvent the wheel" still exists in the computer world. There are obviously exceptions to that rule. Sometimes you have to recreate the wheel to make the wheel work better ;)

<edit>
WHY DO I ALWAYS GET PUT ON A NEW PAGE?!?!?
</edit>

[Phydeaux{RoA}]

This is another voice that recommends the Ti 500 from a gamer's perspective. From where I'm sitting, the evidence is starting to mount - if my Holy Grail is to find a card this holiday season that maximizes performance in UT and XP, it appears that the ATI 8500 just isn't reaching its potential. While I'd love to throw ATI some support, the cards that run what I want to run, now, appear to be coming out of the Nvidia camp. Take this review (http://www.icegameware.com/radeonvsgf3ti500.htm) from Ice Gameware (http://www.icegameware.com/). If there are any happy UT players running the 8500 under XP, let your voice be heard! ;)

[SkaarjMaster]

Just read the Ice Gameware review and it looks like I'm going for speed this time (GeForce3 Ti 500). Although, I presently have the ATI Rage Fury and ATI is still not out of there until I find out how well the newest one installs and runs with Win98SE.

Is Hercules the best GeF3 Ti500?

SkaarjMaster (aka Someone Else)

[ThunderBirdUT]

Originally posted by Phydeaux{RoA}
This is another voice that recommends the Ti 500 from a gamer's perspective. From where I'm sitting, the evidence is starting to mount - if my Holy Grail is to find a card this holiday season that maximizes performance in UT and XP, it appears that the ATI 8500 just isn't reaching its potential. While I'd love to throw ATI some support, the cards that run what I want to run, now, appear to be coming out of the Nvidia camp. Take this review (http://www.icegameware.com/radeonvsgf3ti500.htm) from Ice Gameware (http://www.icegameware.com/). If there are any happy UT players running the 8500 under XP, let your voice be heard! ;)


HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OHOH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

IT's NOT TURE!! maybe ICE Gameware's $HIT mother board caused problems.

I have 2 ATI 8500 and NEVER PROBLEMS AT ALL!!!!!

I am using ASUS A7A266 T.B. 1.4Ghz and Gigabyte GBGA-8IDXH P4 1.8Ghz

ICE GAMEWARE is $hit DUMB!

I have LOVELY RADOEN 8500 and played UT for many days and played Quake 3 and others N O T H I N G PROBLEMS with me AT ALL!..

Do not listen them!

ThunderBirdUT
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ram2125/images/thunderbirdut.jpg

[SkaarjMaster]

Thnderbird, that Asus MB is definitely one of my top choices for a new MB and I will consider this when I buy my new video card. It's too bad I don't have the money to build two system, one with the latest from ATI and one with the latest from Nvidia and test both systems. This is really the only way to do it and be sure.

Also, it seems that GeForce card was better running XP, but I'm running Win98SE so who knows!

SkaarjMaster

[ThunderBirdUT]

Originally posted by SkaarjMaster
Thnderbird, that Asus MB is definitely one of my top choices for a new MB and I will consider this when I buy my new video card. It's too bad I don't have the money to build two system, one with the latest from ATI and one with the latest from Nvidia and test both systems. This is really the only way to do it and be sure.

Also, it seems that GeForce card was better running XP, but I'm running Win98SE so who knows!

SkaarjMaster


Yeah, GeForce works with Windows XP but some games does not works due not XP compatibles.. that's sucks. Windows 98 SE is M U C H better to use anythings. I can say in middle of year 2002 will be all games works but the video cards gonna next new that year! oh man! :)


ThunderBirdUT
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ram2125/images/thunderbirdut.jpg

[Kokensu]

Is anyone else haveing a hrd time trying to figure out what Thunderbird is saying?

Lol, leave Thunderbird alone I don't think English is his first language. Besides he cracks me up. :p


Video cards...hmm...Well I'm using a Radeon All In Wonder 32mb under Win98SE. Card runs great. I average 80-90fps in UT @ 1024x768. Works great with all my other games. Plus I get all the nice features of TV-IN(hook up camcorders, playstation2, cable tv to your computer) and TV-Out(play your computer on a big screen) and a built on DVD-decoder which is rather nice actually. ;)

Complaints? Well ATI's drivers are pretty crappy for the most part but to be honest I'm like ThunderBird. I've only upgraded my drivers ONCE and the card has worked great ever since. If the sh1t ain't broke don't fix it! :rolleyes:

You guys need to realize that SOMEONE will have a problem with ANY card at some point. There are no flawless video cards. ESPECIALLY with PC's. The system specs vary so widely that it's impossible for you to say(in most cases) that this card sux and this card owns. MY experiences with my first ATI card have been great. I KNOW there are others who have the same setup and have had tons of issues. I also know of several people that have had tons of issues with their new Geforces.

I bought my ati mainly for the TV options and the fact that I got it at half price. My next video card? Well I've seen my friends GF3 and wasn't really impressed. It's slightly faster(maybe 110fps in UT instead of 80) but for all the stuff my card does it's hardly worth the large amount of money. Nah I'm not upgrading until U2 and Doom3 come out and only then if I need to. Till then I'll put my money towards ps2 games. ;)

[ThunderBirdUT]

Originally posted by Kokensu


Lol, leave Thunderbird alone I don't think English is his first language. Besides he cracks me up. :p



:)

Yup, I have bad english and grammars too, but some ppl you guy got understand what I talk about.. ;)

ThunderBirdUT
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ram2125/images/thunderbirdut.jpg

[SkaarjMaster]

Kokensu, you have a sig image that won't come up on my cable modem and it slows down the page coming up. Could you check into this please? Thanks.

SkaarjMaster

P.S. - Thunderbird UT, you might want to decrease the size of your image by 50% also; makes the threads a lot longer than they should be and the people with 56K modems probably aren't too happy with it.

[SimplyCosmic]

Having looked through the Radeon's hardware, you'll note that there are too many features and capabilities that never got used due to poor driver support.

Additionally, Windows 2000 and XP support has been a couple of months behind Windows 9x, something which there's really no excuse for. And non-Microsoft operating systems are SOL.

Nvidia has shown that with proper driver development support, there should be no gap between game performance on a Windows 2000/XP machine and a 9x box.

Since I use non-9x operating systems, ATI really hasn't supported the card to my satisfaction as a customer, hence I will not support them with future purchases.

[ThunderBirdUT]

SIGH.....

happy this size pic???

:rolleyes:


ThunderBirdUT
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ram2125/images/thunderbirdut.jpg

[ThunderBirdUT]

Whoa! Whoa! who made this board?!?!?

http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ram2125/images/volex-1.jpg


It said "VOLEX-1"

ThunderBirdUT
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ram2125/images/thunderbirdut.jpg

[Exar Kun [Sith]]

Hmm... never heard of a Volex-1, it's either a prototype board or a quantum 3d board of some sort or it's a fake and someone photoshoped a existing card and they added chips like this one:

http://members.tripod.com/nightstormer/voodoo/v5-6500.jpg

This was a V5 6000 photoshoped to have 6 chips instead of the 4 it has and called it a 6500 but the artist did say this card does not exist and he did it for the fun of it to see what one would maybe look like.

To me that cards looks like a fake cause I see no power plug on it since with that many vsa-100 chips it needs power. The V5 5500 requires an internal hook up from the internal power supply and a V5 6k requires an external one like the photoshoped one in the link.

damn tripod and there stupid image crap. Click the link to see the card.

[ThunderBirdUT]

Whoa! COOL!!! I know they are fake... but wish had it. :)

if you are 3DFX fan, I wish you and I purcahse 3DFX company and make business... but we are not rich.. damn it too late! :(

cool pic!


ThunderBirdUT
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ram2125/images/thunderbirdut.jpg

[Sir_Brizz]

That picture was from a humor page orginally. The guy soldered those chips on their...he never said if it actually used them all or not though....