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elffum
19th Nov 2001, 09:57 AM
just curious, would the cool map function work as a texture on a model? being able to carry around a map would be cool :) although i suppose you would have to have a map texture for each map... still, would it be possible?

Mychaeel
21st Nov 2001, 12:01 PM
(Sorry for not getting back to you earlier. My forum subscription is b0rked. :()

It is possible, and I even tried to create something along the lines of a portable navigation device (as a pickup) a while ago, named ScreenPad. Unfortunately my experience with modelling and skinning (especially the latter) is very limited, so I put that project on hold a while ago until I find a decent modeler/skinner who would be willing to help out. :cool:

Here are my humble attempts. Technically everything works nicely.

http://www.planetunreal.com/screen/misc/ScreenPadMesh.jpg

http://www.planetunreal.com/screen/misc/ScreenPad.jpg

elffum
21st Nov 2001, 05:58 PM
wow, its amazing! everything the motion tracker in the Alien v Predator should have been! im sure a modeler and skinner would help out with this if you asked around the modsquad forums, they've got a help wanted section there. So i suppose its possible to make a portable news reader too... would it be possible to interact with the texture, like scroll it up and down etc. something like this would be cool in a singleplayer mod like Team Vortex are doing, you could have an actual transalator that you hold in you hand, wow, the possibilitys are endless :)

Mychaeel
4th Jan 2002, 08:19 PM
WillySurvive (jnobles@multipro.com) has created a very neat skin for the ScreenPad (thanks! :)):

http://www.planetunreal.com/screen/misc/screenpad-skinned-1.jpg

http://www.planetunreal.com/screen/misc/screenpad-skinned-2.jpg

The green field on top could be used for some additional display (compass, or closest contact distance, or just some blinking lights, or all of it). I wonder whether a small distance display next to each contact would be fit; and I guess I'll make the dots a bit more along the lines of those of AvP 2, being sharp at first and blurring out. And we definitely need an audible signal on contact like in AvP.

Currently, ScreenPad is implemented as a simple weapon replacement pickup, so you switch to it like you would switch to a weapon. I figure it would be more useful (and more convenient) if it was more like a device that you could hold in your left hand as long as you're using a single-handed weapon.

What do you think?

Birelli
4th Jan 2002, 08:57 PM
My first thought here is that it's kind of unbalanced if you can constantly have the screen up. My idea was to leave it as a weapon, but Mychaeel pointed out that it obscures a large part of the screen. Given that, maybe there should just be a button to store the pad back on your "belt". That way you could pull it out while not engaged in combat to scan for opponents, and then quickly store it again when you encounter an opponent for full screen combat.

WillySurvive
4th Jan 2002, 09:34 PM
I'm not real happy with the way the skin looks against the more natural colors displayed in the map. The more I look at the skin the more cartoony it looks.

Feedback on the skin people?

Mychaeel
4th Jan 2002, 09:55 PM
The edges seem better defined in that one, and restricting extra colors to green helps; it looks indeed better to me than the one above. (Thanks for the update, Willy.)

http://www.planetunreal.com/screen/misc/screenpad-skinned-3.jpg

(The texture mapping needs some tweaking at the lower edge of the display; and I guess I should slightly resize and pad the reflective surface as well.)

WillySurvive
4th Jan 2002, 10:42 PM
What does it look like to other players when you are holding the screen pad?

WillySurvive
4th Jan 2002, 10:57 PM
Mych, when I read Elffum's idea in the post at the top of this thread about having a map on the screenpad I figured it couldn't be done. But I realized that a map of the level could be included in mylevel if the author wanted to.

But there's no way to apply that texture to the ScreenPad skin on the fly correct?

And also no way currently to pass the data that ScreenMap would need, correct?

What if the map author had a 256x256 fully functional surveillance imbedded in the level somewhere? Could that data be copied or used by screenpad? Or would it still be the same problem of having to add to a skin during map start up?

Mychaeel
5th Jan 2002, 05:49 AM
The main problem is not just using a texture embedded by the map author but rotating it on the slide. Since the slide shows the other players relative to your own position and orientation that would be necessary to show the player's surroundings. So I'm afraid we'll have to stick with dots on a generic background.

Of course there could be a way for mappers to create an arbitary slide that replaces the default slide displayed on the ScreenPad if it's present.

Mychaeel
5th Jan 2002, 07:01 AM
Here is the back side of the ScreenPad pickup (I didn't yet implement third-person view, and I won't if the ScreenPad will be used along with another weapon).

The sides might still need some work (hard to see on this shot though). The actual ScreenPad pickup usually is a lot smaller, of course...

http://www.planetunreal.com/screen/misc/screenpad-skinned-4.jpg

(Hmm. What if the reflective surface was environment mapped? Gotta try that.)

Snowdog
5th Jan 2002, 11:44 AM
Willy : I think the skin works fine for UT, the plasmarifle and the flakcannon for instance are quite cartoony too in my opinion.

I like the idea of an ingame map, and I came up with a suggestion, though it won't work for already existing maps :
As in the screen component a possibility to add a texture, I read you rotated the texture when the player rotated himself... If you have a wireframe map, which the author of a map could add in his MyLevel package with a set name, like "PadChart" or something. If you'd use the pad, you'd see an overview of the map instead of the sonar, and you can tell where exactly a player walks... This way players can chuck the pad away and predict where players will walk, since you can see the movement and the location of the player within the map...

Maybe added to the pad an option to swap between :
1> Teammates only
2> Enemies only
3> Most dangerous players only (Players with most frags)

Bonecrusher
5th Jan 2002, 11:45 AM
Mych,

That thing looks awesome...would there be a way for the mapper to edit each one that goes in the map to make it look like the map instead of a circle? Kinda like the ones in the jails that we watch all the time. That would make the thing even better, but I dont know if it's possible.

~BC~

Mychaeel
5th Jan 2002, 12:04 PM
As I said before, the background texture can't be rotated on the display, thus making it impossible to use them simply as a backdrop for the player dots since their position also takes your current orientation into account. If another player is left of you, it'll be displayed left of the middle on the display, and so on---just like the AvP motion tracker does it.

On the other hand, I could add an alternate display mode that always displays part of a larger map (like one displayed on stationary screens), centered on your current position. I suppose I'd have to think of a way to designate the player's current viewing direction on that screen because it would always be displayed in a fixed orientation, but I guess that's doable somehow.

Mappers could then indeed provide a map-specific texture that would be used for that, and I'll certainly find a way to allow the refitting of existing maps (the Unreal Tournament stock maps, for instance) with such a texture without compromising network compatibility.

Thanks for all your feedback, by the way. :)

WillySurvive
5th Jan 2002, 01:30 PM
Mych, forgive me if you've already answered this and it has failed to sink into my brain.

But what I was clumsily trying to ask is what if the mapper already had a 256x256 surveillance Screen somewhere in their map? One that used only one Screen scripted texture with no fancy overlays or anything like that? I was wondering if that ScreenMap texture could be lifted onto ScreenPad and used as an alternate display? Maybe using the alternate fire key if ScreenPad was a 'weapon' pickup.

If that would be possible then it would be up to map maker to provide such a screen actor and all you would have to do is find a way to get it onto ScreenPad. I don't know if that's possible.

If the map maker didn't provide a suitable Surv somewhere in his/her map then ScreenPad would have no alternate display and would only show the proximity display.

This would put all the burden of creating the Surv display on the mapmaker. Mostly anyway.

If it was possible to do this then a player could supposedly switch between proximity and surv modes on the screen pad.

Plus, such an arrangement would make the ScreenPad more useful for different gametypes since, for example, a CTF Surv would have the flag's location and etc.

But it all depends on if a scripted texture can be lifted out of the map and used on screenpad.

I think...



You wouldn't have to worry about rotating the map on the screen pad or anything like that. It would be same as looking at a surveillance screen mounted on a wall somewhere except that it could be carried around.

Mychaeel
5th Jan 2002, 01:40 PM
It can, quite easily; it's a regular Screen actor that's working behind that ScreenPad. You can do anything fancy with it that's possible with a stationary Screen as well.

Well, that's an idea---ScreenSlide actors with a special tag will be added to the displayable slides on the ScreenPad. In addition I'd like to stick to the idea of mappers being able to simply provide a texture that's displayed as a scrollable backdrop for a fixed-orientation alternate display mode. It's just way easier for mappers, and it makes it possible to provide such textures for already-existing maps.

WillySurvive
5th Jan 2002, 01:45 PM
Mych, I sent you a backside texture that's tone down like the frontside texture was.

Mychaeel
5th Jan 2002, 01:57 PM
Here you go:

http://www.planetunreal.com/screen/misc/screenpad-skinned-5.jpg

I like the backside, the only thing I'm not sure about are the sides. What do you think? (I guess I won't get around remapping the sides anyway, so I'm open for suggestions...)

WillySurvive
5th Jan 2002, 02:12 PM
You're right. The sides are weird.

When I made the skins Id hoped you'd be able to pull the ribbed part of the texture 'around' the (veritcal) sides and the bottom so that green ribbed stuff would look like it wrapped around the sides and joined up with the same green ribbed stuff on the back.

And I figured you could just use a chunk of the background gray somewhere for the the other faces that didn't have the green ribbed stuff on them.

If that won't work then I can take the skins and reduce them a bit then paste them back into a 256x256 image. This will give me room to add some art for a side texture.

Hold on... let me try something and I'll get back to you.

Mych, are you doing the skinning in MS3D?

Mychaeel
5th Jan 2002, 02:24 PM
Yes. I downloaded and tried LithUnwrap (http://www.geocities.com/lithunwrap/) but found it utterly unintuitive to use, so I stuck to the MilkShape texture mapper.

I'll send you the model with its current texture mapping.

WillySurvive
5th Jan 2002, 02:39 PM
/me is searching for his AVI MilkShape tutorials...

Mychaeel
5th Jan 2002, 05:52 PM
A new design variant by WillySurvive:

http://www.planetunreal.com/screen/misc/screenpad-skinned-6.jpg

http://www.planetunreal.com/screen/misc/screenpad-skinned-7.jpg

Luggage
5th Jan 2002, 05:53 PM
Just a thought...

If the Screenpad was a simple pickup added to a map... Then you could specify a parameter for what backdrop texture to use, right? Or make it the first of "MultiSkins" or something, so mappers can easily specify it.

EDIT:
I think the skin looks nice, but the grey parts need a bit more structure, texture IMO. You know what I mean?

Mychaeel
5th Jan 2002, 05:58 PM
Yeah. I thought of just a texture with a given, special name, like "ScreenPadMap" that's imported into MyLevel.

Luggage
5th Jan 2002, 06:04 PM
...and maybe (good idea following!) the blueish & greenish parts should be random buttons :)

ReGen-JacKaL
5th Jan 2002, 07:17 PM
That is a very cool idea! One minor thing is that I think the screen-pad should be tilted slightly more downwards, i.e. at more of a 45 degree angle to the ground, rather than almost 90 degrees.
Other than that keep up the good work, I for one can't wait to see the finished product!

WillySurvive
5th Jan 2002, 09:40 PM
Mych, which do you prefer, the lighter or darker skin?

Luggage, yeah, that blue-green trim stuff is probably going to have to go. Especially on the lighter skin.



I'm going to have to fix those side and bottom grips as well...

Mychaeel
6th Jan 2002, 05:52 AM
I'm personally more on the darker side as far as the ScreenPad is concerned, actually; the lighter version is, on the other hand, plainly better visible. Both look good---I suppose reducing the blue/green decorations to either blue or green on the lighter variant as you did on the darker version is indeed a good idea.

LordKhaine
11th Jan 2002, 05:12 AM
Few things I'd like to add.

a) I'd prefer it as a seperate weapon. That skin wouldnt work with the current weapon skins anyway (since they are mostly held in two hands) People wouldnt need to keep it out, they could just whip it out for a second to get an idea of where people are.

b) Cant you make enemys red, and friends green on the map? (might be better to use team colour, so it will still work in three or four way DOM/TDM)

c) One problem I see is that a lot of people use either a central view or a hidden view for the weapon. So im guessing the guys with hidden weapons are in deep p00p right? :( Could you script it so the scanner will *always* show on the screen even when hidden weapon is selected? I know you cant un-hide certain weapons just by tweaking UT ini's and stuff, but im sure you could script it to go with the mute.


Looking good :)

Mychaeel
11th Jan 2002, 06:42 AM
b) Cant you make enemys red, and friends green on the map? (might be better to use team colour, so it will still work in three or four way DOM/TDM) It alreay works that way. It's a bit hard to see, but if you have a look at the second screenshot in this thread, you'll notice that the dot at the lower-right corner indeed is green.

c) One problem I see is that a lot of people use either a central view or a hidden view for the weapon. So im guessing the guys with hidden weapons are in deep p00p right? Could you script it so the scanner will *always* show on the screen even when hidden weapon is selected?Good point. I suppose that should be possible.

Luggage
11th Jan 2002, 09:20 AM
I also think it should be a seperate weapon, not to show up seperately... But don't put it in the weapon slots: If you make a mutator of it, just have the player bind a key to it, like it's done i.e. with ChaosUT's grappling hook. If you press it once, the ScreenPad shows up - if pressed again, it switches back to the weapon you were carrying before. I think that'd be the most handy solution.

Zazicle
14th Jan 2002, 04:25 PM
I think it would be better as a HUD thing, so it appears all the time like the AvP Motion Tracker. You'd have to decrease the range and make it so only moving dots show up.

Lemoni
20th Jan 2002, 05:32 AM
Whare can i dload screen pad ? cus i am very interested

Mychaeel
20th Jan 2002, 02:47 PM
You can't download it at all yet because it's still in development. Sorry. :)

Underscore
20th Jan 2002, 04:19 PM
:eek2: Wow, that looks good.
Can you look at web pages using it too? Maybe incorporate a chat slide? ;) .

edit: How about player info? Server info? Ummm... /me needs more ideas :)

Mychaeel
20th Jan 2002, 04:31 PM
Screen 130 will indeed feature an IRC-enabled slide. :)

No problem using any kind of slides on the ScreenPad.

[CD]Icedude
27th Jan 2002, 06:25 AM
this sounds kinda stupid, but wouldnt having the radar thingy on the HUD work?

Mychaeel
27th Jan 2002, 06:36 AM
wouldnt having the radar thingy on the HUD work?Of course it would "work" (and it's without doubt the most staight-forward way to implement a radar---and hence many many people have already done it before). What we're trying to create here is something a bit less usual and maybe a bit more atmospheric. :)

[CD]Icedude
27th Jan 2002, 06:39 AM
... so theres a way to make the screen on the screenpad pop up on HUD when screenpad is activated? then even pople with weapons hidden can use it?

Mychaeel
27th Jan 2002, 06:49 AM
I suppose the ScreenPad would simply ignore this setting and be displayed anyway even if the user has chosen to play with hidden weapons.

LordKhaine
30th Jan 2002, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Mychaeel
I suppose the ScreenPad would simply ignore this setting and be displayed anyway even if the user has chosen to play with hidden weapons.

Always good to know :)

I still reckon its best to use it as a seperate weapon. That way you have a drawback to using it. You can always whip it out when you need it (didnt that sound dirty :o). Would be a great help to people on defence, they just better make sure they get the weapon out in time ;)

Underscore
30th Jan 2002, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Mychaeel
What we're trying to create here is something a bit less usual and maybe a bit more atmospheric. :)
:D . /me is bored with HUD radars anyway.

And /me wants to me able to use it with other screens too :) .

Underscore
30th Jan 2002, 04:43 PM
/me is trying to get my post count up as well :D

Denkbert
1st Mar 2002, 05:45 PM
You could try several different slides for the ScreenPad which can be switched by the secondary fire-mode ...
perhaps the radar, then an irc chat (has to be configured in the "mod" setup before) and a timer :D :D that can be activated by pressing the primary fire mode button

Underscore
2nd Mar 2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Denkbert
You could try several different slides for the ScreenPad which can be switched by the secondary fire-mode ...
perhaps the radar, then an irc chat (has to be configured in the "mod" setup before) and a timer :D :D that can be activated by pressing the primary fire mode button

A timer? Like a stopwatch? That would be great :) .

Would it be OK to put ScreenPad's configuration in the existing Screen mod menu? That would save some space :D .