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Lord Dill
7th Nov 2001, 02:59 PM
you've probably noticed my long posts due to bots giving me a hard time with my level. To tell you the truth its been a real metal strain and i feel like reaching into my computer and choking the life out of the little buggers. If they were alive ;) id kill them all!

I thought of a solution that would solve EVERYONES problems with alt path and node costs. Even if you don't have problems this would cut down on alt path testing. However, someone would have to mess with scripting (which i know nothing about)
Instead of using alt paths to tell your bot what path to pick, we need another trick. A path node that MAKES the bot go to IT

Example, the bots spawns. He wants to get to the flag base the shortest way possible picking up a close weapon or a powerup along the way. So the main goal for the bot is to get to the flag base.

Now, the thing i want to create would act LIKE a flag base (being its the top priority of the bot) He spawns and wants to get to the (lets call it an attack nod) by the shortest path. Once he acquires this attack node, he then goes for the flag.

the attack node would be

- the bots primary goal untill reached, then primary becomes the flag
- almost like a control point, once reached he moves on to the more important goal (the flag)
- made so all attacking bots would randomly select an attack node to reach.
-made so they only acquire ONE attack nod when attacking. It could almost be like a switch, when the bot reachs the attack nod. the flag whichs to a higher priority. However it would need to be reset everytime the bot dies. And, the priority of covering the flag carrier is always the highest ;)
- able to have a selection weight to give some control on which ways they pick more offen
- alot less headache then alt paths and nod cost
- alot faster to set up and less frustration (if it worked correctly)

This point might be related to the assault randomizer? but ive never used that because i only make CTF and DM levels.

Bot_40
7th Nov 2001, 03:42 PM
Hmmmm, I had thought of something similar. It's a slightly different concept, but it's quite similar.

I know no coding so I wouldn't be able to do this, but it would make pathing up levels extremely easy.

Alternate Path ][

Works in the same way as a regular alternate path, but the value in the selection weight of the path is absolte and the bots ignore the distance of that route. eg. if you place 3 down on different routes and they all have a selection weight of 1, then the bots will use all the 3 routes equally even if one is longer than the other. It uses the ratio of the selection weights to determinte a route
so, if one path had a selection weight of 2, and one had a weight of 5, then there would be a 2/7 chance that the bot would go for the first route, and a 5/7 chance that it would use the other.

Pretty easy to do, but you could improve it still:

I had trouble pathing up a CTF level I made which had several routes that split then joined with each other in a really twisted layout. I came up with the following idea.

The you place alternate paths on every junction on all the routes. You then give all the alternate paths belonging to on junction the same TAG.

Then, when a path splits again, repeat this proccess.

You then link the different 'levels' of alternate paths using the EVENT of the previous alternate path.

The bots would then chose a route from te first set of Alt. paths. using the selection weight technique as above, then look at the event of the Alt. path it chose and go to the next set of alt. paths with that tag and chose one of those using the sel. weights.

Hard to explain, so see the diagram below:
The boxes represent an alternate path][ actor, the lines represent a route pathed with regular path nodes.

Lord Dill
7th Nov 2001, 04:13 PM
EXACTLY :D well almost. Pretty much the same idea with the "path is absolte and the bots ignore the distance of that route"

I think the only thing different in our ideas is that you still want the alt path aspect. I just want them to got to a POINT. But if the path or node was absolte the results would be the same :)

the trick would be to get the bots to ALWAYS randomly select an attack node or Alt][ path to aquire. Thats the problem with normal alt paths... they don't see the alt paths in a complex network and DON't select an alt path.

Alt][=Attack Node :D

Ill try that tag and event idea of yours bot40... thanx

Bot_40
7th Nov 2001, 04:31 PM
Now we just need someone to code it.
Warning: I'm going to keep bumping this thread until I find a coder to code the Attack node :)

Evil_Cope
7th Nov 2001, 04:40 PM
or you could post in the darkmagic board, full of coders waiting for magus's release of the new core files...

sheesh. come on botman, use your head.

Bot_40
7th Nov 2001, 04:44 PM
I was just going to actually :)

Lord Dill
7th Nov 2001, 04:50 PM
could you drop a link here if anything happens in the dark magic forum... i don't visit that one. whats the url?

Bot_40
7th Nov 2001, 05:03 PM
http://fusion.beyondunreal.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=138
And don't worry, I'll post if anything happens.

Lord Dill
7th Nov 2001, 05:12 PM
I already have all of my attack nodes/alt ][ nodes ready to be placed in my level for five different attack routes/points. The points will make them take different routes. just waiting for someone to create the damn thing :)

maybe in the process of making attack nodes, flag return nodes would be an idea too... although alt paths on returns seem to work alot better.

hmm just a thought, but that might cause problems if the flag carrying bot falls to a lower level before getting to the point. that would be bad, because the bot might back track. but im sure you could place the flag return nodes in safe places. It would be cool for the bots to take many different flag return routes.

I just keep rambling and rambling...

Lord Dill
8th Nov 2001, 08:01 PM
/Lord Dill bumps this thead in hope that a scripter might see it.

Lord Dill
12th Nov 2001, 01:12 AM
another bump, come on people....

Luggage
13th Nov 2001, 03:38 PM
I don't know UScript, but I know Java, which seems to be pretty much the same thing... so maybe I'll try, if I find the time. Shouldn't be too hard, though I figure you can't use the Tag/Event system, cause for every bot each Node needs to have a different state or something, can't figure my worren thoughts into words... mumble... well, we'll see. And btw, AltPaths work pretty well for me! *g*

Cheers, Lugg

Bot_40
14th Nov 2001, 03:28 AM
Alt paths aren't too bad for symmetrical maps, but for assymetrical, they suck a$$ big time :mad: