AI sucks

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TDS

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I'm very disappointed with UT.
First the game is barely playable (from a multiplayer point) at 800x600 with defualt setting on a PIII600 256MB and V3@177. But what frustrate me is AI. Bots on a masterful (or upper of course...) level never behave like umans. They never make a real error, they always shoot at you in the right direction and in the fastest and deadlier manner, they never esitate a second. A good example is when they have the impact hammer you can't try to escape they will always follow your movement and then hit you. Another one is when you are waiting behind a corner as soon as they appear they shoot at you and you don't have a chance to hit a key. When they are behind a corner and you fire in that direction they always remain hidden but as soon as your realese your mouse button they reappear and shoot at you in the middle of your eyes. Even when they are hit they never loose the precision to shoot at you. It's so clear that they are controlled by the computer that I think that AI implementation is ridicolous. If you add that we are limited by fps with our hardware and bots don't of course, it's just another point of frustration. So I use UT only in multiplayer but for me is like having Unreal with additional maps nothing else. I hope Epic will look again at AI implementation even if I haven't a lot of hope, my experience with Unreal patches are enought...
 

TDS

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ty_Fortune,
I can win up to Galleon on a deathM Masterful level, I don't want to win with a lower setting. What I can't understand is Why AI implementation is so poor? It seems that Epic don't understand that bots must behave like human not like computer controlled like now. That's why I think isn't a great game.
 
There is no way you are having this much trouble with masterful bots!! You are probably playing in Turbo or something. Put it in hardcore, and they are easy.

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Ask the carney folk to get it, they're great climbers!
 

ty_Fortune

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It's strange that you say that the AI is so bad. I've heard nothing but praise for the UT AI. Especially on the higher skill levels. It's been noted that the bots on the higher skill levels still miss shots and don't have perfect aim. Rather, they win by controlling the level which is more human like than any other bots out there.
Just look at the Q3A bots. On one level they completely suck, you'll win by 20 frags or so. On the very next dificulty level they have perfect aim and are almost impossible to beat.
I'd just like to know what other bot AI you are comparing UT's with? And the T-1000 doesn't count /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif
 

BEG][

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Sounds like you need to practice more I can easily beat inhuman bots. Incase you werent aware skill levels that are named things like Masterful, Inhuman and Godlike are supposed to be inherently difficult. If you think UT's AI is unhuman-like I hope you dont plan on getting Q3...

BTW UT should not be "barely playable" on that computer looks like you need to tweak you settings. UT runs fine on my celeron400, 128Megs, TNT2.
 

TDS

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You're right Donkya Bwoy.
It seems like I'm in turbo mode. I've started a practice session in Hardcore on the same map and bots are easier to kill now. But how can I turn my game back to hardcore and where I can see if I'm in turbo mode.
 

HuFlungzeDung

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TDS, it's not just the Bots! If you play a bit of online multiplayer, you may be surprised to see how good some people are at fragging you. To really enjoy yourself, there is no use in practising at a difficulty level where you mostly lose. Just move it down a bit, learn the maps and develop your strategies and watch what the bots do to control you. Soon enough, you'll be able to increase their difficulty. Don't forget about customizing the individual bot behaviours. There are plenty of little tweaks in there that you can add to a bot that is just a little too hard/stupid for you.
 

LordKhaine

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If you think UnrealT is bad for multiplayer, I hate to see what you think of every other FPS out there. The bots at adept skill act just like good human players. The AI is (in my opinion), the best ever in a FPS. As for poor performance I agree that UnrealT is very power hungry, but this game still rules!
 

TDS

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I don't care if UT AI is the best around, and I won't buy Q3 if it's worst, I can continue playing and have much more fun with the few demo maps on the net. If it can't recreate an internet experience I'm not satisfied. Who can tell me that UT is like an internet fragging game? Yes, UT masterful bots miss shots but only because they try to anticipate your movement, try to remain immobile and you'll see that they don't shoot at you always directly, they miss you often. And try to be close a bot with an impact hammer and tell me how U escape. Bots never run out of ammo because they always fire in a logical way and never panic. They never miss an object or a player if it's in line of sight. Since Quake I've been on the net to frag someone and I've found a lot of better players than me but never I feel frustrated instead I was able to learn and always get a chance to kill the best opponent. Why bots never stop to camper in DM? How can they make a combo attack in such perfect way? Why they never look around? How they can understand in such a perfect and fast way where are you shooting from? If AI is the best around I think that it's not good enought to substitute an internet game. I can appreciate the efforts of the programmers but we are far away from human-like AI. The fun to play against a human is much much more fun.
 

hal

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I'm a little bit at a loss here. You don't like them because they are playing better than you are? Take the advice given and turn down the difficulty. Having played with many different bots in Q2 I can say without a doubt that these are by far the most realistic I have ever played against. The fact is that they are JUST bots. If you want human AI you have to play HUMAN BEINGS.

The bots are very beatable at Masterful levels... and they don't play perfectly. If you want camping bots, just change their behavior settings and weapon preferences. I think you'll be happy then.

It occurs to me that the behavior you are seeing is similar to what you would see in a good player that KNOWS the level. Listen to the sounds that are around you, know where your opponents are likely to come from and where you last saw them and you too will exhibit similar skills.

These bots weren't meant to replace real players...just to prepare you for them.

Just trying to shed some light on the situation...I hope I haven't been too obnoxious.

[This message has been edited by hal (edited 12-07-1999).]
 

TDS

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THX hal for the advice.
I dunno how to modify bots behavior can U tell me where I can get useful info about that?
 

HuFlungzeDung

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When you start a game in UT, there should be a Bots tab in the setup window. You will see a "configure" box that you can click on and then each bot opens in a window where there are sliders to adjust the properties. The only problem I have found is getting the exact bots that you configure, into the game! There is something screwy about what order the game calls up the Bots. Any one else clue me in?
 

TheQat

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HuFlung, it's easy to get the bots you configure into the game. . .just uncheck "Random Order" and make sure that you have configured the same number of bots (and in order, i.e. Bot 1-Bot 7) as you have in "Number of Bots."

There are sliders in configure for Camping and aim, TDS, so you shouldn't have many problems anymore. They also allow you to turn on/off jumpy behavior, adjust aggressivenes, and a few other things I can't remember.

--Qat
 

HuFlungzeDung

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I've tried that, TheQat, but it doesn't work that way. The first 8 bots do not enter the game (in CTF, anyway), but they still come in in some kind of randomized order. Please try it yourself, write down the names of the bots that join into your game, and then go to the configure bot window, and see what numbers the bots were that entered the game. I tried half a dozen permutations, but they do not come in in sequential order.
 

TheQat

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That's really odd, HuFlung, because I get all my specially skinned bots every time. . .even in CTF. I've never had the same problem, I guess. Suppose I can't help after all, at least until I get back to my house and can use my good computer tomorrow /~unreal/ubb/html/frown.gif

--Qat
 

LordKhaine

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The reason you are getting random bots is because you have checked the random bot order button in the bot menu. Uncross the button and it bots should be spawned in the right order.
 

EASY_Target

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TDS..

If you are talking about bots in "practice" mode..you can modify them to your heart's content.Ther shouldn't be a problem, enjoy the game..it rocks off-line.

If you are talking about on-line, I tend to agree with you, considering lag and packet loss and the reason bots are on the servers, to act as fillers or replacement for humans till server fills up especially on Team based games.... there are genuine problems in the way admins configure them.
 

BirddoG

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hey TDS
im not tryin to be mean or anythin but..
try to do some research and playing around with settings befor you say something is bad
from this post you found alot of things that make the bots more human-like and easier to beat
are the bots really that bad now that you know how to use em?

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Cebu

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You can configure the bots to your hearts content by going into the practice sessions box, clicking on bots and configuring each bot the way you like. They can camp, not camp, camp sometimes. They can be good, bad, average. It's up to you to set them the way you like them.

As far as bots on masterful level being good. If you have played online you will see that numerous gamers are very, very adept in controlling the map and in fragging. It comes from practice. I consider myself above average and I get my head handed to me all the time. Practice makes perfect. keep trying.

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