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View Full Version : If Unreal Warfare was pay-per-play, would you still p(l)ay it?


Tetris L
15th Oct 2001, 03:40 AM
Little is known about Unreal Warfare by now, except the title. It is rumoured to be focused on multiplayer gaming; a sequel to UT, but more complex and on a much larger scale (by mapsize and playernumber). Even though Infogrames have stated semi-official that they are not planning to go into the massive multiplayer online game market in the near time, some people expect UW to be MMO. And if it's MMO, then it's probably pay-per-play, i.e. require a monthy fee.

For your answer, assume that the monthly fee will be something between 5 to 10 $. Also assume that Infogrames will provide stable servers with a good connection and with admins present on the servers to take care of lamers and cheaters and to receive feed-back from the community. Last but not least, assume that the game will be virtually bug-free at initial release and Infogrames provide good tech support.

Disclaimer: These assumptions, as well as the assumption that UW might be MMO/PPP are pure speculation.

WiLD2
15th Oct 2001, 04:07 AM
From early reports of people I trust, the game will not be pay-per-play (monthly or otherwise) like any other MMOG is. From my source who has been known to be relatively close (and therefor I trust him for now) to the people behind the game (we know who they are) I trust him when he says that it's going to be a one-time fee (buying the game). That's because->
EPIC loves the fans and community.
It's way too early to tell now if it will be pay per play, just as it was too early to tell months ago when I got this information. I just hope it's a one shot pay-deal.

grimstar
15th Oct 2001, 04:14 AM
I really cant see Unreal Warfare being a MMO-Game/PPP. Dont forget our bet, -Tetris.

But if it is, Ill pay to play. ~Aslong as Infogrames do the severs right.

WiLD2
15th Oct 2001, 04:20 AM
All information and talk about the game has stated that it's Epic's way of getting into the MMOG market. Unreal 2 is their SinglePlayer/MultiPlayer side project whilst Unreal Warfare is their first Massive Multiplayer Online First Person Shooter ~Game.

I'm thinking it'll be like Neocron (http://www.neocron.com) but in the Unreal Universe.

Tetris L
15th Oct 2001, 04:28 AM
Grimmy,
I certainly don't forget our bet. (I also don't forget my bet with GrimlocK, hehehe ... :D) I know we interpreted Cliffy's statement about PlanetSide in the XGR interview differently. Time will show. The interesting things is: Now that it has been announced that PS probably won't be out until 2003, PS and UW will be direct competitors.

Machismo
15th Oct 2001, 06:36 AM
I voted for 2 :(

But if I have the dollars I'd pay for it :D.

But i'm still hoping its not ppp :p

Swedix
15th Oct 2001, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by -The-Tetris-L-
Also assume that Infogrames will provide stable servers with a good connection and with admins present on the servers to take care of lamers and cheaters and to receive feed-back from the community. Last but not least, assume that the game will be virtually bug-free at initial release and Infogrames provide good tech support.

Do you mean by that, that no one can host a server himself as in UT?
How many servers can Infogrames host? All over the world?

Or, do you mean, if you want to play on Infogrames servers with stable connection and alert admins, you have to pay else play where you want.

Tetris L
15th Oct 2001, 09:44 AM
Swedix:
Yes, I was talking about servers hosted by Infogrames. I was assuming that Infogrames/Epic would use the same structure as all MMO games launched by various companies by now: All servers that you can play the game on are under control of the game company. This is pretty much necessary if you talk about a persistent world with persistent characters that you develop. If you allow 3rd party servers in such a system, this would include the risk that those servers totally screw up the system. That's what makes MMO games so expensive and that's one of the reasons why such games require a monthly fee: The game company has to host a lot of servers with a lot of bandwidth, which cost money.

One might think of a system that allows 3rd party servers in an MMO game. I tried to come up with a system in this thread (http://ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115225) on INA back in July. What do you think?

Master_Blaster[MASTER
15th Oct 2001, 10:50 AM
Yeah, thats basicaly the same as what we have in U1 and UT now.

I would like to play, but i don't have the money :mad:. Maybe by the time it comes out i will have a job.

Swedix
15th Oct 2001, 11:38 AM
Tetris, your idea seems good. If it's practicable, well that's another question but I guess it should be in some way.

I'm no supporter to pay-per-play. I like the idea of independent servers where admins can run what maps and/or mods they want.
Also, I like the ability to have private servers for clans and/or friends.

WiLD2
15th Oct 2001, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Swedix|BuF
Tetris, your idea seems good. If it's practicable, well that's another question but I guess it should be in some way.

I'm no supporter to pay-per-play. I like the idea of independent servers where admins can run what maps and/or mods they want.
Also, I like the ability to have private servers for clans and/or friends.
So you and your clan can hop on the translocator to the outer rim where you've reserved the outlands. You've invited another clan over, they live at the neighboring planet. The outlands is the area you've chosen to stage your clan match. You see everyone has shown up, decide to get on with it, then fight. One life to live, otherwise you are sent back to the area you've designated as your spawn zone.

You stand victorious over the fallen before you; you loot their bodies of items you can sell (sans weapons) and some cash as your own profit as you may afford to buy better weapons when you get back to civilization, or more ammo/armor. You'r clan is now *that much* more famous, maybe you are ready to fight in the tournament now?

Yellow5
16th Oct 2001, 12:00 AM
I'd pay if it were a persistent universe like Planetside claims to be.

I've had a fewlong conversations with Tim Sweeney in the past (during the Unreal era) about this sort of thing, and he's always been keen on a similar idea. The main turnoff at the time was the lack of widespread broadband access required to pull it off.

I'm willing to pay for moderated servers, persistent universe or game arena, and some sort of char development.

If it is set up like a first person "war" where there are sides, different tech for each side that can be lost or gained via raids/battles, etc. then I'd probably wet myself. ;) WWII Online tried, and failed with this but I think a company like Epic has enough money and manpower to pull it off.

hal
16th Oct 2001, 07:19 AM
I'd definitely pay for an EPIC product that was

1) Unreal based
2) MMO
3) Well run
4) Involves lots of killin' :)

Having said that, I'm not sure they could pull it off just yet. It'd be a whole lot different trying to offer stable servers for a HUGE first-person shooter, than it would be a RPG where you waddle along and fight the occasional rat. :D

Tetris L
16th Oct 2001, 09:18 AM
hal,
screw 1-3, ... 4 is the important part, isn't it? :D ;)

I really really wonder how PlanetSide will pull it off. Especially now that it will come out not much earlier than UW and be a direct competitor. Verant say that they will do 4-6 month of open beta testing (!), so by the time PS goes officially gold the game will hopefully be patched a few times and play very smooth and bug-free. That's the attitude we need. Too many other companies have rushed their MMO games and failed badly.

UnrealGrrl
16th Oct 2001, 11:56 AM
i think the thing that made unreal games attractive to me was the diverse range of servers and ppl playing on them, the varying styles admins used to make good servers their own by running different mods, skins, voices and of course custom maps!
thats what has kept UT alive for me (and alotta of other ppl) :)
if the game becomes a homogenized static universe, it wont be any fun for me (and alotta ppl) :)

so if thats the way it goes, no ya wouldnt find me paying for it...

if they insisted on trying the pay for play, what would be cool is if theres a pay for play universe AND the capability for individual admins to run thier own worlds... seperate from the $ one...
you are really cutting out the mod community if you dont have private servers and who does epic think will be the 1st ppl to buy uwarfare? thats right, the ppl who are still playing now, 2 years later on priavte (mostly custom) servers... and who are the ppl who will support and pimp it? yea same ppl again ;)
will they pay for it if you remove the community flavor from the game? i doubt it...

WiLD2
16th Oct 2001, 12:43 PM
EPIC would have alread pushed out three community projects for mod makers by the time Unreal Warfare is around. Unreal 1, UT and Unreal 2 would have all had great revenues and a community to back it all up.

If anything, a Massive Multiplayer Online Game strengthens the community because the game IS a community. You're looking at the wrong aspect of the game, you're not supposed to be able to make mods for the game, you're supposed to go by the flow of the stories they've created.

And especially if it's pay-per-play they wouldn't be worried about a few thousand more people (NYGrrl and others) not buying UW because the game would appeal to a whole new genre of fans. The ones that don't like it should be replaced 10-fold by people who crave an MMOG. Unreal 2 should only be over a year old by then, and if EPIC wanted to make more money, they could do what id has recently done and package the three previous games together. Unreal 1, Unreal Tournament GOTY and Unreal 2 all of the latest versions together in one bundle.

Tetris L
16th Oct 2001, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by WiLD2
... if EPIC wanted to make more money, they could do what id has recently done and package the three previous games together. Unreal 1, Unreal Tournament GOTY and Unreal 2 all of the latest versions together in one bundle.
They've already done it, kinda, a month ago or so. The pack is called "Totally Unreal". It only had "exclusive" wallpapers of U2. Plus it had RtNP.

Edited while Wild2 posted his reply.

WiLD2
16th Oct 2001, 01:04 PM
yeah, I saw that yesterday at Electronic Boutique, but it was only Unreal 1 with the mission pack and Unreal Tournament Game of the Year. If they wanted more money, they could package ALL together after Unreal 2 is a year old.

Tetris L
16th Oct 2001, 01:40 PM
You're right that an MMO game requires a totally different type of server architecture. AFAIK an MMO server is usually a whole group of servers linked together. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible to handle several thousand players. Certainly such a server architecture requires a very special type of engine. But what makes you so sure that Epic aren't working on such an extension of their engine behind closed doors? I don't know who you are and if you got any insider knowledge, but Epic may have more up their sleeves than they have shown by now.

Tetris L
16th Oct 2001, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by -The-Tetris-L-
I don't know who you are and if you got any insider knowledge, ...
http://www.google.com/search?q=Noel+Stephens

Oooops :)

Tetris L
16th Oct 2001, 01:55 PM
I didn't know who you are, but Google is my friend and Google told me.

I hope you havn't violated any non-disclosure agreements with what you've just told about UW, because ...

YOU WILL BE QUOTED. :D

You have 2 minutes to edit or delete your post. ;)

WiLD2
16th Oct 2001, 02:02 PM
/me straps on his ride.

Thanks for this insight, N03L. That's what I needed, another update from someone who's been in close contact with the technology and people responsible for it :D

Unreal Warfare is undoubtedly going to be game of the year the way things are sounding now. I'm starting to see how things are shaping out.

Unreal 1-> Single Player
Unreal Tournament-> MultiPlayer

Unreal 2-> Single Player
Unreal Warfare-> Multiplayer

Checks and balances, right? I'll be happy as long as UW is not a sequel (if it's possible) to UT, the same way U2 is not a sequel to U1.

little red rooster
16th Oct 2001, 02:29 PM
Man you guys are killin me. I can hardly wait for Unreal2 and thats still 6 or 8 months away. Now we get the scoop on UW, and its probably years away. I cant stand it anymore. I want it now!!:D

IntRed
16th Oct 2001, 03:39 PM
that depends, there are nda's that doesn't allow you to talk about the company and or company's ideas for a certain amount of time but thats just being difficult ;)

Tetris L
16th Oct 2001, 03:41 PM
So ... is the Dallas Office of ION Storm closed down meanwhile? Why is it that www.ionstorm.com is still up and you're still listed as an employee. I guess you're not allowed to say who you work for now?

As for the quote, read section 2 of this FAQ (http://www.unreality.org/cleaned/U2FAQ/U2FAQ.htm#_Toc525275525). If you're not happy with what I wrote, I'll edit it.

UnrealGrrl
16th Oct 2001, 03:52 PM
well then...

cool! ;)

UnrealGrrl
16th Oct 2001, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by WiLD2

If anything, a Massive Multiplayer Online Game strengthens the community because the game IS a community. You're looking at the wrong aspect of the game, you're not supposed to be able to make mods for the game, you're supposed to go by the flow of the stories they've created.


thats the whole point of my post wild :)

i think the continuing popularity of the game(s) is because its NOT based on the flow of a story thats been created for you to follow... its NOT a static universe where theres no options (ie: you cant choose another server if you dont like the players, rules, options, gametype etc.)
the current unreal community is based on the atmosphere of various small communities created by different servers all over the world... each with their own ppl, set of rules, mods and personalites...
if that didnt exist, there wouldnt be much intrest, imnsho ;)

hal
16th Oct 2001, 11:10 PM
But I think that it would be possible (and very cool) to have some sort of a linked world with stock arenas and lands with seamless (or near seamless) gateways to other servers running custom maps, mods, (lands) etc.

We saw an interesting portal idea from a third party mapper for UT. Something to help maintain the immersion.

If you can interact with other players on a verbal and combative level without ever leaving the game, it would be a major step forward for FPS. Yeah, I know UT has the built in IRC client, but imagine being able to "see" the players you are chatting with... and in a cool Unreal environment.

Lotsa possibilities....

UnrealGrrl
18th Oct 2001, 10:10 AM
yea theres lotsa possibilites... i think the main thing im worried about is the potential of the game becomming 'corporate' and run only by some gaming 'authority'... sure it might be big n bad n real cool at 1st, but itd be real boring after awhile...
as long as the capability of individuals to operate their own worlds (servers) and run them with the mods, options, features and customization they see fit... then it should be just snazzy!

itd be way cool if servers could link together and combine (somehow) their worlds, woohoo! the future is here... :)

Lizard Of Oz
19th Oct 2001, 06:59 AM
Only if they could guarantee me perfect ping and no Llamas.

In other words: No fricken way!

gramps
25th Oct 2001, 05:35 PM
:stupid:

also, if they decide to make it PPP they should make the game itself free, or very very cheap. if they'd make you pay $40 for the game and on top of that ask for a monthly fee i imagine lots of ppl (including me) would feel ripped off from the start. :/

Barcode#09123111
10th Nov 2001, 03:26 PM
It would really be sad to see them make Unreal warfare a P-P-P. I think i would be shocked.. then mad.. then SAD... i really hope they dont do that... If they do that they lost themself a customer.

Tetris L
27th Nov 2001, 07:45 AM
CliffyB commented on MMO in this interview on GamingGroove (http://www.gaminggroove.com/interview.cfm?id=16)

MM games are great but you really have to be willing to take a few risks if you're going to do one of those games. You need to make sure you have a great server architecture in place and programmers that can stay on top of any issues that may come up. You need someone to run servers for you and you need to have a great beta period or you're going to be in for a world of hurt.
Something else to keep in mind - if you're going to make people pay 10 bucks a month for your game then you'd better make damned sure you're offering something above and beyond what all other (free online) games are offering. That's why it would be tricky to make a MM FPS. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that if you're going to take a game that people are used to playing for free and suddenly try to charge for it they're going to reply with a hearty "**** you" at the retail counter. You've got to make sure you're offering TONS of reasons for the gamers to play the game on YOUR pay-per-play servers. What that motivation might be is up to the team and designer.
It's hard to interpret from this if Epic are developing an MMO game or not. I'd say yes, but not short term. (And UW is short term.) In any case they are very clear about the extremely tough requirements and taking a very careful approach.

Syri
27th Nov 2001, 09:15 AM
I doubt i would pay, especially as i have a poor internet connection.
I don't agree with paying to use a game after you've paid to buy it, you pay one or the other, not both. They're much better sticking to the same principal of UT, where anyone can run a server, anyone can join a server, all you have to do is buy the game CD, then you don't pay any more

ork
27th Nov 2001, 11:02 AM
It seems odd to me that pay-per-play means a monthly fee. Does it always mean that?

I would pay a real pay-per-play, as in 50 per hour online (for example), but I wouldn't pay a monthly fee of $10 (for example) because there are months where I might not manage more than 1 or 2 hours even if I wanted to.

Master_Blaster[MASTER
27th Nov 2001, 11:19 AM
I woun't pay to play when you can still play good games for free.

Fisherman's Friend
27th Nov 2001, 02:30 PM
Why is this thread not in the UW forum, where it belongs? :con:

little red rooster
29th Nov 2001, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Fisherman's Friend
Why is this thread not in the UW forum, where it belongs? :con:

because we can do whatever we want. Rules are for suckers :D

LordKhaine
14th Dec 2001, 06:51 AM
I wouldnt ppp for a fps. Me, pay seven quid a month to play a fps on BTInternet? hahahaha, I think not.....

GeForcePoWeR
7th Jan 2002, 02:38 PM
The thing that got me hooked to unreal games was UT, i saw the intro, and my jaw dropped, I played the tutorial and i am now in love with the ch8ick that is speakin and tellin me about jumpin ans strifin hmm i love her voice, i hope its not computer generated then i be in love with a computer *AGAIN*.
I really liked the music the maps the textures the gameplay the diff locations.. aww face was my favorite map at one point, but i have moved on to better and greater things :-).

Pillsbury Flow Boy
8th Jan 2002, 02:47 AM
I play Ultima Online at least once a week, I've got a character I've been building for a year, been paying for 2 now... I loved that game because if I had a problem I could call in somebody to help me with it, there was always a counselor around somewhere on the server I play on, and it was enjoyable for the most part, even on my crappy 56k connection... the only problem was the 10 bucks a month...

Now, if they make the game PferP I'd try it out for the first month... if I didn't like it, I'd throw it into my dust pile...

Now, if they made it so there was a giant community of people, the ones that play... the ones that are monitored, the servers are stabile, and the gameplay is fantastic, you'd bet I'd be there... but also, what if they also released the server source\software so you could start up a server, link it to the main server, so your clan would have a place to meet in comfort, play in comfort with people you know, and people you trusted... I would also play, if they made it so that you could set a certain... let's call it... 'level' of play, so that the 1337 players couldn't own the n00bs, so the n00bs would get a chance to rise up to the same... again here's that word... 'level' that the 1337 players are at... I would also play...

Then again, I'd play it if was an enjoyable game anyway... I didn't start playing Ultima Online because There was the possibility's of killing dragons, the possibility of owning a house ingame, amassing a huge amount of wealth... no, I played the game to have a bit of fun... to tell ya the truth I've killed only 4 or 5 dragons ingame... I've seen one balron(one of the two toughest baddies) and it killed me with two swift kicks to the groin... The reason I played the game was the fact that I could be something I couldn't in real life... if they did that with UW then I'd pick the game up for simple principal...

sorry, but if I don't enjoy a game I won't play it, if I do, I'd pay to play...

[EN]CYPHER
8th Jan 2002, 10:17 AM
eh, maybe you already had this but what is pay-per-play? mothly paying a specific sum to be able to play the game?

and BTW: whats MMO?

Tetris L
8th Jan 2002, 11:41 AM
Cypher:

MMO Game = Massive Multiplayer Online Game. "Massive" means: Several thousand players on the same server at the same time!

You could think of various business models for an MMO game, but essentially Verant, who kinda created the genre with the two most successful MMO games ever ("Ultima Online" and "Everquest") defined the business model and all other MMO games copied it:

Pay-per-play usually means that you pay a fixed sum per month to have access to the server. The server software is not public. All servers for the game are owned by the company that made the game. You also can't play offline; the game is online playing only.

[EN]CYPHER
8th Jan 2002, 12:27 PM
Thx Tetris! :)