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View Full Version : Poll: Friendly fire in U2


Tetris L
26th Sep 2001, 02:39 AM
Since the poll doesn't allow much text, let me elaborate the options a bit.

Friendly fire should be totally disabled, like in UT. (-> Skill-less stupid spam-o-rama IMHO :mad: )
FF on, but people who teamkill excessively should automatically be kicked and temporary banned from the server.
FF on, but there should be an intelligent vote feature ( la Tribes' or BDBMapVote) that allows you to vote lamers off the server.
FF on, but with 'mirrored' teamdamage, i.e. if you hurt a teammate, then you take a part or all of the damage (percentage to be decided by server admin).

What do you think?

Swedix
27th Sep 2001, 10:03 AM
Your 4:th option is interesting. But the teamdamage should be set low, about 35% - 40% and the 'mirrored' damage about 1,5x.
You should also get minus score every time you teamkill and a message in the middle of the screen saying 'xx teamkilled nn' .
And an ability to vote kick players should be built in in the game.

pine
27th Sep 2001, 12:45 PM
I like playing with team damage, but there should be an option to turn it off. It makes Team DM and Domination a lot better, but I'm not too crazy about team damage for CTF.....should be configurizable at least. I mostly agree with Swedix, except I don't think there should be mirrored damage.

Swedix
28th Sep 2001, 04:10 AM
A mirrored damage may not prevent lame teamkillers, but it would prevent massive spam la flak, ripper, go and so on.
But everything should have an option to set it on of off and the amount of mirrored damage.
But by default, teamdamage should be on. Make it standard for all multiplayer games.

Sister_Red
28th Sep 2001, 08:08 AM
I would like to see mirrored team damage on Unreal2.
Maybe then team-members will try to only hit the enemy and not just go spamming like Swedix says.

~Sister_Red~

pine
28th Sep 2001, 04:46 PM
Lame teamkillers probably wouldn't care that much if they got hurt or killed themselves. Just my interpretation of lamer psyche. I mean, they're basically causing their team to lose, in fact they lose a personal frag anyway for every team member killed, so why would they mind dying as a result of mirrored damage?

Not that I could say for sure, but I don't think mirrored damage would deter lamers. After all, their objective is just to piss you off and they'll still accomplish that.

[BUF]Diving_Mullah
28th Sep 2001, 06:23 PM
Mirror damage with 2x sounds good. Or maybe you get frozen for one minute.




Mullah

Zaccix
29th Sep 2001, 04:11 AM
Option 2, FF on with auto-kick, sounds like the best option. PCB is right about TKers not caring if they hurt themselves, so mirrored damage would only go so far.

Maybe after a certain amount of TK's (say, 2 by default), your guns could be disabled for something like 30 seconds. If it happens 3 times, you get kicked.

Tetris L
29th Sep 2001, 12:55 PM
Basically any of the options 2-4 is fine for me, as long as friendly fire is enabled. I'm soooo sick and tired of the spamming in UT. I don't want to see the same in U2.

Mirrored damage is my favorite though. I think the TKer should take 75% of the damage. Now add a 30 second respawn delay and people will really start to think before they fire.

Machismo
29th Sep 2001, 01:36 PM
FF on, but with 'mirrored' teamdamage, i.e. if you hurt a teammate, then you take a part or all of the damage (percentage to be decided by server admin).



:tup: i think this is the one i could live with the best. vote features work the other way too you know. llamas can get together and vote the best players off the server.

Zaccix
30th Sep 2001, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by Machismo


:tuP: i think this is the one i could live with the best. vote featires work the other way too you know. llamas can get together and vote the best players off the server.
Anyone who played T2 shortly after its release would've seen this multiple times. Everytime someone got pissed off because someone else hit them with a good shot, a vote to kick came up. It got very old, very fast.

Tetris L
30th Sep 2001, 02:49 AM
The advantage of a kickvote feature is that it does not only take care of teamkillers but also of other kind of things that spoil the fun for everybody: teamkilling, cheating & aimbotting, btching & bigmouthin', even blatant stupidity, ... ;)

If they put in a kickvote, then they should make it mandatory for the one who calls the vote to fill in a line giving a REASON.

Furthermore the vote interface should automatically give a few basic data about him, for everybody to make it easier to judge, as the most important the # of teamkills (and his hit ratio with hitscan weapons maybe ;)).

Last but not least any kickvote should be configured such that it is successful if either X% of people in his team or X% of people on the server overall vote him off. That's because depending on what he does he might annoy mostly the people on his team (e.g. by teamkilling) or the people on the opponent team (e.g. by cheating). To make sure that player don't get voted off the server just because they are good, set the number X high enough, higher than 50%, so that players from his own team have to vote against him to make the vote successful.

UnrealGrrl
1st Oct 2001, 03:12 PM
kickvotes dont usually work unless you havea very tight knit group of ppl playing all the time on the same server...

friendly fire is ok but not for CTF unless some serious mods were made to the CTF game which imnsho doesnt need any...
and since i play CTF just about xclusively, im really not high on td for the game at all... those who want it can always turn it on...

kick vote is on most custom servers that use map vote anyway so you can boot the undesirebales, but voting on servers doesnt always work so well...

NuKeR
2nd Oct 2001, 06:54 PM
I didn't choose any of your choice:

my answer is = the user choose

FF on or off

if on = option to make it miror, option to select %, like 30%-45%

if off... no option :cool:

Zaphrod
3rd Oct 2001, 10:25 PM
I like the 4th option but what would be excellent is if there could be an enemy sensor of some sort so that if there are enemies in range then other members of your team will take damage from you but if there are no enemies in range then you take 100% of the damage. Thsi would stop Team killers and also allow for "realist" damage in firefights.

CTM_XinderblocK
14th Oct 2001, 09:14 PM
I think it would be cool to see the bad apples.. the ones that shoot teammates...I would reflect on us then we would take care of that one or 2 bad seeds... the high school way.. gang up on his azz..

shadowclaw
15th Oct 2001, 03:09 AM
I think FF should be set to 'on@100%' by default with the option to turn it off (voting).

It makes the battles more realistic and it requires more personal and team skillz.

Also the option to kick a llama TK is a very good idea!

little red rooster
16th Oct 2001, 01:51 PM
I like all of the options but I think the admin should have total control. Admins rule!! This way everyone can find a server that he or she likes.

Major-Lee-High
27th Oct 2001, 02:38 PM
FF off (like UT)

Yes, FF is cool but there are alot of lamers...... FF is for locked servers and clan wars only IMHO! We saw what happened with T2!


FF on, but with TK-autokick

A good option, but theres always accidents with TK on, there would have to be a good ammount of tks and a time limit inbetween! If there is grenades or rocket launchers or whatever available, teammates will die.....


FF on, but with kickvote

Hell no, T2 had that, and its worse than having tkers! THere were fags who would vote to kick off the guy with the flag saying he was a team killer, and everyone would kick him! G@Y


FF on, but with mirrored teamdamage

Mirrored team dammage is the worst option, just because some idiot walks out into the line of fire doesnt mean that you should get injured or die! That is the stupidist way to solve tking! Very Very Very dum to use!


Basically TK should be off, except in locked servers or clan wars/servers! Tk is good, but in public servers it is very stupid!

Major-Lee-High
27th Oct 2001, 02:41 PM
OMG kick vote is winning!

You guys really must have NEVER seen this in a game!!!

It completely ruined Tribes 2!! Thoses fukking loosers would actually kick you off for being in the lead!

You think its a good idea now, until there are WAAAAAAY more loosers in a server than you guys that voted for that! Then you get kicked for kicking ass!

Leto II
28th Oct 2001, 08:22 AM
yeah, that 4th option is probably a solution for most fraggaz ou there.
maybe set a 'temkill health limit'. When somebody has ei hit for 500 teammate hitpoint, give some penalty or something, would be cool (with HUGE letters on all te players' screens :) )

Tetris L
28th Oct 2001, 08:42 AM
Major,

I am very pleased to see that 70% of all people want to see friendly fire ON in some form. FF on rewards those who switch on their brain before they fire, those who fire precisely and those teams that have good organisation. FF off only rewards those who spam blindly and fire careless. :mad:

As a Barrysworld CTF league admin I tried to convince the clans that matches should be played with FF on. We let the clan vote and the mahority voted it off. Most of them said they are not used to playing with FF because all public servers have it off. Having it off on public servers and on on closed, clan and league servers just won't happen.

I don't agree that the kickvote "ruined" Tribes. However I do agree that it is a serious flaw that it allowed people to call a kickvote without backing up their accusations. Like I said: When a kickvote is called against someone, the game should automatically display some stats about the player, for example teamkill ratio.

I'm looking forward to see how well the auto-kickvote will be implemented in RtCW.

ork
28th Oct 2001, 12:15 PM
I think votekick is necessary, but mostly for purposes other than team damage. As games gets more complex, like XMP, there will probably be more subtle ways of ruining the game for everyone like destroying own defenses, blocking the replicator or activating it to produce whatever is most useless (compare destroying own defenses and seal running in Wheel of Time). Regarding the Tribes 2 point, it can't be that much fun if the majority of players are lame enough to kick someone for leading, anyway, can it?

I'm also in favor of FF on, and at first liked the idea that you are automatically kicked until the next game after causing a certain number of team damage health points (how many set by admin). But don't underestimate the ingenuity of lamers. I can imagine them leaping in front of players who have loaded rocket launchers (for example) so that player unintentionally causes team damage and gets kicked.

gramps
28th Oct 2001, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by -The-Tetris-L-
I don't agree that the kickvote "ruined" Tribes. However I do agree that it is a serious flaw that it allowed people to call a kickvote without backing up their accusations. Like I said: When a kickvote is called against someone, the game should automatically display some stats about the player, for example teamkill ratio.

that's a pretty naieve view on online behaviour you display there. don't think for a minute people will give a damn about a teamkill ratio, if someone issues a kickvote, chances are most of the other players will press the Accept button without bothering to look or care. i agree with Major, put a kickvote in there and pubs will be hell. take a look at the amount of lamers you encounter in UT now. those ppl will also play U2.

i think teamdamage should be optional in the first place. you don't like it, and lots of ppl agree with you. but even more ppl do not agree with you. i'm thinking about pubs here, what happens in league matches is not relevant, since the admin can set it up just like both parties desire.

also, i don't think the mirror damage thing is a good plan. if you can't spam at all anymore that will take a lot of fun out of the game. think of people who need to learn how to play the game, or ppl who just have playing tactics that involve spam. there IS such a thing as effective spam, you know. are you going to deny those ppl the right to have fun playing the game?

instead, why not make it so that teammates do receive damage from you, but much less than enemies. that will make players watch their spam better but it will not be something one constantly has to think about.

lceman
28th Oct 2001, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by gramps
also, i don't think the mirror damage thing is a good plan. if you can't spam at all anymore that will take a lot of fun out of the game. think of people who need to learn how to play the game, or ppl who just have playing tactics that involve spam. there IS such a thing as effective spam, you know. are you going to deny those ppl the right to have fun playing the game?
You may be right.. There is a place for spam in DM (possibly).. but I don't think it is appropriate in a teamplay game.

Oh, I'm new to the BUF btw.. HI :D

Tetris L
28th Oct 2001, 02:51 PM
W00t, nice to see you over here, Iceman. :)

I guess you read my lil' invitation to Dork. Certainly that invitation goes to all the sane peeps on INA. :)

ork
28th Oct 2001, 03:02 PM
Just thought I'd point out that Wheel of Time has had "vote kick" and even "vote kickban" for a long time. There have been very few cases of legit players getting banned by a group of lamers in all that time and I have witnessed many occasions where it has been useful. I will admit the much smaller community is part of the reason for that.

The main problem was that the lamers all chose names like etc. so it was impossible to type in. Most players would have liked a "vote kickplayernumber" or similar where you could just type in the player number, but due to the lack of community size (therefore also support from the producers) this never happened.

lceman
28th Oct 2001, 03:13 PM
Tetris: Thanks :D. Nice to know I'm not one of the retards that keep you away from the INA boards. :)

Dork: W3rd, but the WoT community is hardly representative of gaming communities in general. I'd imagine most of the U2 players will be from the UT, Tribes2 etc. communities, which are.. let's say less than great. :)

Still, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the majority of U2 players will be more mature.

Tetris L
28th Oct 2001, 03:29 PM
I never said its retards keeping me away. My ignore list for INA is about 10 names long. That takes care of most of the nonsense. :)

I have given up any hope for mature behaviour, fairplay, good sportmanship, ... on game servers (forums too, btw ;)). Llamas, trolls and bigmouth kiddies are everywhere. It's sad but true: You've gotta force people to be nice, for the sake of everybody's fun. The RtCW multiplayer test was just one more example: FF was on per default and the kickvote was disabled. Teamkiller's heaven. Every 3rd game I played was ruined by some asshle who found it funny to go teamkillin'. Not accidently. Fully on purpose. For the full game Nerve promised to add an auto-TK-kickvote feature. Can't wait to see how well it works. :)

lceman
28th Oct 2001, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Tetris L
The RtCW multiplayer test was just one more example: FF was on per default and the kickvote was disabled. Teamkiller's heaven. Every 3rd game I played was ruined by some asshle who found it funny to go teamkillin'
To be fair, I've found that people play pretty well in RtCW for the most part. Of course, people shoot the hell out of their team mates before the game starts, but that's just silly fun. The game is just too cool to be a team killer.

UnrealGrrl
29th Oct 2001, 12:44 PM
hiya iceman, welcome to the all new BuF :)

lceman
29th Oct 2001, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by NYGrrrl
hiya iceman, welcome to the all new BuF :)
Thanks honey ;)

ork
29th Oct 2001, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by lceman
Dork: W3rd, but the WoT community is hardly representative of gaming communities in general. I'd imagine most of the U2 players will be from the UT, Tribes2 etc. communities, which are.. let's say less than great. :)I had to think about this for a long time http://mypage.bluewin.ch/igg/dorks-trash/nerd.gif. Then I came to the question: why is the WoT community hardly representative of gaming communities in general?

If it's because of some characteristic of the game, surely that's what we should be isolating to see if Unreal II can have that characteristic.
Is it something to do with the learning curve to play the game even decently?
Is it that spamming with most "weapons" against even an average player (including on your own team) is more likely to get you dead?
I don't believe it's just that the community is small. The lamers would like nothing more than the prospect of finishing off a small community.

Er... I'm not the brains around here. This is more instinct than analysis. I hope someone can make some sense of it.

lceman
29th Oct 2001, 04:21 PM
I hate to say it, but it's probably because the game isn't SciFi/Counterstrike. Lamers can't be bothered with the spells and plain looking women, as well as the reasons you mentioned.

However, Unreal 2 will be a much more high profile game, and so I think the lamers will flock to it. If they can persuade their Dad's to buy them the hardware that is :)

grimstar
30th Oct 2001, 01:59 AM
WoT didnt have guns, thats why the "lamers" didnt buy it. Which is a shame, as WoT is one of the best PC games iv ever played.

When was the last big selling action/adventure game, that didnt have guns ?

Tetris L
30th Oct 2001, 02:47 AM
Pong?
PacMan?
Strip Poker?

grimstar
30th Oct 2001, 03:07 AM
Tetris L, lceman, ork, NYGrrrl. Now all this place needs is a Wowbagger. :)http://forums.beyondunreal.com/images/icons/icon14.gif




And a quick click button for the thumbs up, im always going back to my post and fixing the :up: ;)

Orochi
30th Oct 2001, 03:18 AM
oh god no, dont tell me all the dip****s from the unreal2 forums are commin here

Tetris L
30th Oct 2001, 04:08 AM
Orochi:
Oi, that was uncalled for. I know those from INA who have shown up here as nice guys and they are most welcome. Those that you probably refer to when you say "dip****s" hopefully stay out. I don't think they would like it here anyway, for various reasons, so I don't think they will come over.

GrimStar:
Wowbagger is a clanmate of mine, and I've certainly told him about BU, but I guess it's too slow-paced for him here, so he sticks with GTF. I'll keep trying to lure him in. :D

Orochi
30th Oct 2001, 05:09 AM
i apologize, but alot of the people on that board are just plain out of it, i just hope these guys arent like that



hope these guys are cool like you L

ork
30th Oct 2001, 06:29 AM
Hi Orochi,
I understand your concern about anything coming over from the INA Unreal II forum. I'm amazed and dissapointed at how low it has managed to sink. I wouldn't describe myself as cool, but I don't think I'm a dipsh*t either.

btw, does Groberts or any other Legend post here?

btw2, too bad about SNK :( (http://classicgaming.com/).

lceman
30th Oct 2001, 06:55 AM
The INA really fell apart when Groberts stopped posting alot when the major spam came, and alot of personal attacks were directed at Grant. :(

In the early days, Grant wasn't really like a moderator, more like another forumer, as well as being an Unreal 2 developer. That was when the forum was at it's best, but then we got floods of new members.

Now, most of the regulars are people like Messiah and Lorantantis, who are, quite frankly, morons. :)

Wowbagger[$FCE2]
30th Oct 2001, 06:56 AM
Hi all :)

@Tetris, ive been lurking here ever since you told me about BUF but ive never had anything interesting to say :)
(Err please dont backlog my posts at GTF ;))

Back to topic: TK is very hard to stop and im surely not the one solving it.

Ive played SF matches were the first thing our team did was to kill our TK. Team Vote Kicking should work i think.

I refuse to belive that all of my teammates would vote me out just because im at the top of the scoreboard.

Machismo
30th Oct 2001, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by ork
btw, does Groberts or any other Legend post here?


nope :D

way back some1 did :eek2: how long ago that was who knows :p

grimstar
30th Oct 2001, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by lceman
The INA really fell apart when Groberts stopped posting alot when the major spam came, and alot of personal attacks were directed at Grant. :(The "Pre-Alpha" didnt do any good. Thats when i started getting board with the forum. http://ina-community.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Tetris L
30th Oct 2001, 09:05 AM
Damn, this thread is fuX0r3d. :(

I don't want to point fingers at INA. Grant has a very hard time over there. For every moron he kicks out two new ones seem to pop in. And the harder he fights the trolls, the harder they try to fight back. It's a vicious circle. In the end it will be a full-time job to moderate the forum, which he doesn't have the time for. If he is too restrictive, people will start calling Legend nazis. Many people find rules boring and consider them as a restriction of their freedom. He has to be a bit careful not to piss off too many people, because it's the official forum. Infogrames want their forum to be a lively and popular place and many people actually enjoy forums with lots of flamewars and spamming. We all know it can be amusing at times. CliffyB himself, one of the moderators on INA, has been known for frequenting the SomethingAwful forums. That pretty much says it all. ;)

However, it's only the dev team posts that make me come back to GTF, indeed. A few Legend/Epic guys were registered on PuF, but none of them posted more than a handful of posts. Except Akuma, that is.


Okay, can we get this thread back on topic now? :D

Master_Blaster[MASTER
31st Oct 2001, 05:37 AM
Okay, can we get this thread back on topic now?

ok

I chose FF on but with TK auto kick. It could kick you if you TKed 3 times in 1 minute. Or something like that. I don't like mirrored damage because mistakes do happen. I don't like the voting because people vote you out when you haven't done anything wrong. Just because they don't like you. Also when people have done something wrong peopole don't always want to vote them out so you can't get enough poeple voting to kick them out. I like FF because it gives a more realistic experiance but it does cause problems :(

Major-Lee-High
14th Nov 2001, 04:30 AM
:D

I do personnally like TK on, but my earlier post was made with the large majority of people who dont give a damm in mind! Or the ones that love TK on so the can TK!

TK should be off by default! Lots of server admins never change anything, they just boot it up then forget about it untill they get a new game to run a server for!

It should be off, with a vote option to turn it on! Tribes has that, but most servers have tk on by default, and noone ever votes when a turn tk off vote comes on, they just hit yes to every kick player vote that comes along! (or they were doing that when i last played... long time ago)! I dont think people will kick for being in the lead with U2 either!

There should be voice and chat spam penaltys like in strike force and a few other games, plus tk penaltys! In order for a player to be kicked by vote there must bee a somethings hes has done... being afk for 10 mins killing 5 teammates etc!

RtCW i saw had a new method to me, with the cards or whatever, i forget the names! But if you are teamkilled you have the option to ignore it accidents happen, or file it as him doing it on purpose or whatever! If a player gets like 3 or 5 or something server determined i believe they are kicked!

I like TK on, and i love the idea of all kinds of server voting! But there are many many many people who like them for the bad reasons!

n2~WrrR
14th Nov 2001, 04:46 AM
One of the reasons i stopped playin and uninstalled RTCW MP Test is that my own team was killing me.. WTF were a team. That was it, and those friggin snipers.. I think FF should be turned off. there will always be pricks. Non of this I trust you B.S. Forget that.. As long as there is stupid motard ppl that have no respect for there own team members.. Then i say FF stays off...no special key to unlock it. Just make sure that it stays off.