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View Full Version : Stop with the bots, please!! It's pissing me off!!


Putrefaction
1st Dec 1999, 01:20 AM
I am so sick of bots on public servers. I seriously CAN NOT find a small game to play. I HATE 8+ player free for all spam matches!!! ALL servers that give me good ping have bots on them! WHY?!?! They have "bots enter game with min of 6(or 8) players" ARGH! I look in the UT server browser at the lowest pinging games. I find a server with 2/8 players. I say "good, a nice small game", but I look at the server info and it says "bots enter game with min of 14 players"! WTF, and you say to me "find another server then", but I CANNOT!! ALL servers are like this! I look for an assault game and see a nice server with 3/12 players. Looks like a fun strategic game, but NOOOOO, I enter and find the game FULL OF GODLIKE BOTS THAT SHOCK COMBO ME RIGHT WHEN THEY SEE ME! IT PISSES ME OFF I CANNOT PLAY UT ANYMORE BECAUSE OF THIS. THERE IS NO WHERE FOR ME TO PLAY.

Wingznut PEZ
1st Dec 1999, 03:31 AM
I couldn't agree more! If I want to play bots, then I play with zero ping, in single player mode.

http://www.planetunreal.com/images/bullet2.gif
Wingznut [PEZ]
ICQ #29598363

DRT-LadyK*W
1st Dec 1999, 06:54 AM
I have to agree also. Bots is what use when your isp is down its not what u expect to find when your looking for a game online.

EASY_Target
1st Dec 1999, 07:09 AM
The only place for bots is at home ..not on the net..
Perhaps the only exception might be for certain "Team " based levels.

Since I don't know enough about UT and lack sufficient accumulated game time for UT..I can't really say for sure if bots should be in certain "team" based matches/maps or exactly how many should be allowed..time will tell.



[This message has been edited by EASY_Target (edited 12-01-1999).]

The Gravedigger
1st Dec 1999, 07:23 AM
I coudn't agree more. Here in the UK we pay per minute for online time, AND I'M DAMNED IF I'M GOING TO PAY PER MINUTE TO PLAY ****ING BOTS!

(this thread is MAKING HISTORY, 5 people all agreeing on a BB topic? Strange...)

(Particularly 'cos one of them is EasyT /~unreal/ubb/html/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by The Gravedigger (edited 12-01-1999).]

Morgan
1st Dec 1999, 08:15 AM
Make that six!!!

Voyd
1st Dec 1999, 09:22 AM
what youy guys need to realize is not that most of the admins that have bots on their servers do it out of ignorance. they simply do not know that the vast majority of Deathmatch players really would rather them be off. The fact that the default number in the game is 4, which is Epic's fault, doesnt help either. most of the admins just launch the server and dont tinker with anything.

what you should try to do in these cases is when u find a good server but it has bots, email the admin (most of them provide an email address) and politely (dont scream or swear) ask them to remove the bots since it is detrimental to the deathmatch game. yud be surpirsed that most of them will do it.

The Gravedigger
1st Dec 1999, 09:38 AM
I find it hard to believe it is just the ignorance of server admins.

Come on, server admins just *don't* tend to be the newbies on the scene. Sure, some of them may be, but surely a tiny minority, and I see tons of servers ruined by bots.

Akaimizu
1st Dec 1999, 11:09 AM
Actually. I'm not against bots. But I am against forcing people to ungodly bots. Maybe someone should mark their server as God-level bots Server. So those who really look for that can join. Slightly more descriptive names for Servers can help. I can use East Coast Assault - 4 min, Avg. bot. For those who want to play. Hmm. It does get a bit wordy. Forgot how long the Advertised server name can be on the list.

Technically, when I run a game, I set the minimum players to 2 or 3(max) for a DM game. And I do set the minimum to 4 for a CTF and Assault game. The reason. It's no fun to play a CTF or Assault game with anything less than 4 players. I prefer 6+, but less than 4, yuck. That goes for Domination games too.

I'm on the Mid-East coast, which for some reason, is where most of the other servers aren't. Trying to cater for the crowd that usually only sees high ping servers. However, as of UT, this is the first game I've seen where I can log on and ACTUALLY see servers that are 200 ping and less. Some low as 47. WOW! I've never seen any Q2 nor Q3ATest servers with that good connection to the land of Mary.

Needless to say, they are still the minority, it seems. Which may go for the players. I haven't seen people jumping on my server yet, so I'll see what happens.

Anyway, to cut this short. Since I'm no fan of incredible bots for online play, I was testing them at Adequate difficulty level (they know how to kill). For the Team games, they seem to be decent support(at least decent decoys), but whether the team wins or loses is all dependant on the skill of the human player(s).

I like to test this with real players, and test it with Skill matching on the bots.
With just a 4 player minimum, it might work. Or it might be worse than the Average idea, before. True, a 2 on 1 game should give advantage to the one with more human players, but I rather have it where a human has a chance at winning, if they have a bot for support to balance it out. I'm only speaking Team games here.

Average bots I believe allow people to have a chance against two people. I.E. A decent player with an Average bot should beat a 2-player human team in which 1 player is decent and the 2nd player has no skill to save their hide.

One of the designers put out nice info about what level bots do what. Quite informative. It does allow some nice configuration ideas. Seems strangely accurate to the typical stuff real players do at different skill levels.

Anyway, enough speech. Just my two cents. My server name is Red Lines, if you are interested in testing this stuff out. Possibly give you some ideas about a good balanced set of bot settings. For testing sake, this site wont update World Stats, I just want to get a good criticism as this is an issue that greatly needs addressing.

-- Akaimizu

Akaimizu
1st Dec 1999, 11:19 AM
Sorry, I forgot to mention the starting running time. I should have it up by 7:30 PM EST. Most likely a half-hour before. Feel free to come earlier, if you see it there. I plan to run it straight through the night. Sorry if this isn't the fastest connection, as I can't use cable on this particular line. Should handle a few players fine, as it is the 4 player game I really plan to test. I like to switch between CTF and Assault. But I'll start it as an Assault server. Reason. Not enough Assault servers. I mean, I love the missions and all, but hate not finding any servers with Assault maps with a ping under 400+.

-- Akaimizu

Slider
1st Dec 1999, 12:44 PM
Well Akaimizu, I have to agree with the other folks that I'd rather not see ANY bots on a server! As has been said, I can certainly get bots on my offline game if that's what I'm looking for, so finding them on a server gives me nothing, except aggravation. I can only get a 26400 connection at best at my location, so I'm usually dealing with a high ping to begin with. This also means I cannot play a game with more than 6 or 8 players and still be somewhat competitive. Just the other night, I got two friends to follow me to a server that looked like it would be a good bet for us (they're on simple modem connections as well). The server showed around a 200 ping for all of us, no other players at the time. We go in to start, and find out that 4 bots immediately join in, all set at a high level. So now we're back to dealing with slow gameplay for all of us, not to mention that we're stuck fighting with nearly invincible bots, instead of the friendly deathmatch among ourselves we were hoping for. Needless to say, we only stayed a few minutes before moving on...

Akaimizu
1st Dec 1999, 01:24 PM
Well, in that case, you wouldn't see bots on my server anyway. If you have 2 people on a DM, you should be the only two people on. UT gets rid of bots, if you have the minimum requirements.

I was just saying, I believe a server should apply just enough bots to make a game playable. DM only needs a min set a 2. That way, if you are alone, you have SOMETHING to shoot at. But you only get a bot if you are alone.

If you play any team-based game. You really need at least 2 to a team. That's why I mentioned 4. Seems to me, if you leave out any bot ability for these games, you'll have a choice of two kinds of servers. 1. Servers with not enough players. 2. Servers with a ton of players on it.

I agree that godbots are only good for training, but not a viable use for Multiplay, unless the server is a private server and those people requested it. I think at most (1 for otherwise empty DM servers, and topping at 3 for otherwise empty Team servers) should be a good middle ground. Average difficulty level, of course.

Doesn't anybody agree that the worst of all evils is being stuck with servers in which you are by yourself with no one to play? I'd rather fight while I wait. Not sit by myself for 30+ minutes, waiting for someone to join. That is, if they join. I don't think 1 average level bot for DM, is asking too much. If someone joins, the bot goes.

-- Akaimizu

Akaimizu
1st Dec 1999, 01:55 PM
I'm sorry. I forgot to mention, I do plan to run the server on Hardcore setting. Yes true time. Because I think all the other servers within my close ping radious is running at ludicrous speed. Sorry, if you want turbo. My personal tastes are strategic. My observation of Turbo is that in CTF/ASSAULT games, players tend to run like mad (in dumb straight lines) by themselves with the hopes that their speed will get them from point A to B before people get a fix on them. It also hurts the defensive/sniper game.

I may run a sniper server, as more sniper worthy maps come out. Stuff like Lava Giant/dual worlds. (Which, looking around the internet, are uniformly loved by gaming Snipers.)

Simpleton
2nd Dec 1999, 01:49 AM
Bots are good - in both team games and DM. There's nothing I hate more than finding a good server with, say, 4 players and two people leave. Then you're left playing DM or CTF one on one. What's the fun in that? True, the "kick-your-*** -and-feed-you-your-balls" bots are a waste of time on a game server, but Average or experienced Bots are a decent way of passing the time until more players join in. They're good for target practice at least. Now, I'm not suggesting that server admins add Bots to a minimum of 16 (like some CTF servers), but upto a min of 4 players in CTF or 3 players in DM keeps it interesting. I haven't been playing long enough to try out Assult and don't care much for Domination, so this aplies to DM and CTF, mainly.

I couldn't let the whole thread bash the Bots - they need someone the stick up for them. /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

Slider - it's not that hard to look at the server setup BEFORE connecting to see how many Bots and what skill level.



[This message has been edited by Simpleton (edited 12-01-1999).]