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View Full Version : No flak on U2?!


Tetris L
19th Aug 2001, 02:30 AM
You might say "You can't dump the flak, because it represents Unreal!", but it seems that Legend have decided otherwise:

From this (http://actionvault.ign.com/features/interviews/unreal2.shtml) interview:

FPS gamers should feel right at home with the rocket launcher, grenade launcher, pistol, combat assault rifle, sniper rifle, and shotgun.

From this (http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2802623,00.html) report:

The assault rifle had a unique alternate mode of fire: It fired three pieces of charged shrapnel that bounce off solid objects and shred "soft" targets like Skaarj and other humans.

So, there is a shotgun in U2 and the assault rifle altfire has bouncing shards. To me it sounds like there is no room for a Flak then. It seems Legend dumped it, like they dumped the Nali.

IntRed
19th Aug 2001, 03:44 AM
well its about time for some change of pace

Metakill
19th Aug 2001, 05:11 AM
Sounds to me like they just switched a few primary and alt-fires around and changed the names. Although the list above is not a complete wepons list from U][. The alien weapons are not mentioned, nor the flamethrower.

hal
19th Aug 2001, 08:23 AM
This is going to be really interesting, because obviously by this point, people have weapons that are their absolute favorites to use. I for one, would die if they didn't include the ShockRifle.

Part of what makes the Unreal games so great is the deep strategy of all of the weapons. They are pretty well balanced, so changing the lineup is going to be a great undertaking. Each weapon is counterbalanced by another... it's great chess-type matchup.

I'm not at all opposed to new weaponry, I just hope they can bring the depth and strategy that Epic have.

I've been reading alot about UnrealChampionship, and am really impressed with the way that Digital Extremes are incorporating combo attacks into their weaponry. That is exactly the kind of thing that I hope Legend looks into.

B
20th Aug 2001, 04:51 AM
What hal said! :)

IntRed
20th Aug 2001, 05:53 AM
well, i hope there will be all new weapons, and with combo's
otherwise the game could end up like tribes 2, witch is imo just an addon and not a new game ;)

hal
20th Aug 2001, 11:21 AM
I'm not asking for a stale weapons line-up by any means. But look at what Epic did with Unreal's weaponry. They kept most of them (except dispersion pistol), beefed them up (flak cannon, minigun and ripper), and added a few to fill the gaps (Redeemer, Plasma Rifle, impact hammer, and dual pistols).

I think that there are a core of weaponry that people expect with Unreal (just as they do with Quake). Things like the FlakCannon, ASMD, and RL with multi capabilities should find their way into U2 IMHO, because they help Unreal stand out in a sea of FPS games.

Those three weapons, along with alternate fire on them all are essential to the success of U2's multiplayer. Now Legend just needs to build around them.

Tetris L
20th Aug 2001, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by hal
I've been reading alot about UnrealChampionship, and am really impressed with the way that Digital Extremes are incorporating combo attacks into their weaponry. That is exactly the kind of thing that I hope Legend looks into.
I couldn't agree more on this!!


But look at what Epic did with Unreal's weaponry. ...
Unfortunatly Legend seems to be very different in this respect. They've put Skaarjs in the game, just to have something that makes U2 look like a U1 sequel, but except that they seem to have designed the game from scratch and dumped pretty much everything. They dumped the Nali, which means nothing is a taboo. :hmm:

I think that there are a core of weaponry that people expect with Unreal ... . Things like ... RL with multi capabilities ...
Hal, did you read the description of the U2 rocketlauncher that was posted the other day? A brief description is given in the article mentioned above (http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2802623,00.html): "The rocket launcher's alternate mode fires three rockets that rotate around each other."

Scott Dalton elaborated a bit on this: "The rocketlauncher uses the same ammo for both fire modes. This "rocket" is essentially a cluster of 4 mini-missile warheads in a stabilizing booster harness. In primary fire mode, the 4 mini-missiles funnel their fuel through the main booster harness and act as a single rocket with a single large explosion. In alternate fire mode, again this single "rocket" fires out, but the mini-missles detach from the harness and follow a weaving drunken path to their eventual detonation resulting in a cluster explosion sort of effect. For those that fear spam usage of this weapon, fear not. The mini-missiles are being well balanced for damage and speed so that while they have a different tactical advantage to the primary fire rocket, their overall power is not out of balance for their application"

Sounds good to me. :)

hal
20th Aug 2001, 10:50 PM
Yeah, I read that, and I noticed that he said nothing about grenade alt-fire. That's really a key to the Unreal-brand of RL.

I know that nothing seems taboo to them, I don't mind. I only hope that the balance is there. I really enjoyed the guided RL that they created for Unreal:RTNP, so I have no doubt they can come up with some new concepts.

I just hope that while they are busy building cool new things, that they take the time to balance them properly.

Metakill
21st Aug 2001, 04:55 AM
Personally, I don't mind if they change all the weapons, as long as they are all awesome! After all, I don't just want Unreal/UT with fancier graphics, I want a whole new experience. Just keep the alt-fire system cause it sets UT apart from the rest.

ASMDFreak
21st Aug 2001, 01:06 PM
The shock will be in U2 ,to take it out would rip a huge chunk of Unreal's identity away .It would be akin to no railgun in quake 2/3 .Obviouslt if they are going to add new weapons to the list then they have to take a gamble on what to leave out or end up with a stupidly long list of weapons ,creating a game balance nightmare in multiplayer .IMHO Epic made some serious mistakes with some of UT's weapons .The ripper is a worthless spam tool and contributes nothing to the game other than annoyance .The flak cannon is absurdly overpowered and fires too rapidly ,if the flak was removed the game would lose nothing at all .Plasma gun is another that could easily disapear without any detriment to the game .The rocket luncher should be toned down in the amount of rockets that you can load up and moved more towards a weapon of high skill like the quake 3 RL ...ie they could increase the speed of the rocket shell ,the explosive force slightly and move towards a single rocket type of primary fire .Multi rocket spamming is a major blight on the game atm .So imho by all means toss the wretched flak cannon into hell along with the ripper ,multi-rockets ,and the translocator ! Ack hate that weapon ...just my opinion :)

Tetris L
21st Aug 2001, 03:18 PM
ASMDFreak,

its seems you want UT/U2 to be Quake just with a shockrifle?! ;)

Well ... actually I agree with much of what you wrote. The only thing that I totally disagree is your opinion on the pulse. It is nice; it is just a bit underpowered compared to the "big guns". If it was balanced a bit better to the others it would be a great weapon.

IntRed
21st Aug 2001, 04:11 PM
well, a lot of weapons getting thrown around here
but, imo it would be time to change the whole arsenal, seeing they already ported and modified unreal weapons to ut ones
i'm sure combo weapons will be in unreal ][, but i hope there all new weapons, since well, its not very original to just modify oldschool weapons, though its still fun, but i'm counting on epic's orginiality ;)

ravenus
22nd Aug 2001, 01:28 PM
wrt ASMDfreak's post, you r comments seem essentially geared towards multiplayer aspects. But recall here that U2 is mainly an SP game and therefore its weapons will be designed to beat cool monsters and people should whine less about frag balance here.

The RL's multiple rocket charge was one of the most useful aspects in U1 to get the mercenary and the titan bastard.

hal
22nd Aug 2001, 10:01 PM
Well, I just read in Computer Games World that Unreal2 will have the Flak cannon and ASMD. It's in the September issue of you're curious.

ASMDFreak
22nd Aug 2001, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by ravenus
wrt ASMDfreak's post, you r comments seem essentially geared towards multiplayer aspects. But recall here that U2 is mainly an SP game and therefore its weapons will be designed to beat cool monsters and people should whine less about frag balance here.

The RL's multiple rocket charge was one of the most useful aspects in U1 to get the mercenary and the titan bastard.

Yes a good point re.single player weapons ...I just think that after the massive online success of UT that Unreal2 should attempt to offer as much to online players as UT .Whilst its true that it is the sequel to Unreal and that UT's sequel will be Unreal Warfare it would be a major let down if the multiplayer was screwed up .Graphically the game will be stunning but I doubt that the single player experience will come up to the level of classics like half-life ,dues ex etc ...if it does then great we're all winners but I feel that multiplayer is an area that cannot be neglected at all .

ASMDFreak
22nd Aug 2001, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by hal
Well, I just read in Computer Games World that Unreal2 will have the Flak cannon and ASMD. It's in the September issue of you're curious.

The Flak is in ??

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

ravenus
23rd Aug 2001, 01:53 AM
wrt your reply ASMDfreak, what I feel is that any such deficiency in multiplayer can be almost immediately made up for by all the brilliant modders that are part of the Unreal community and therefore it is something that Legend can afford to not give a full priority as opposed to a multiplayer focussed game like UT/UW.
Or perhaps we should have some weapons unique to SP which may affect play-balance in MP :D

ASMDFreak
23rd Aug 2001, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by ravenus
wrt your reply ASMDfreak, what I feel is that any such deficiency in multiplayer can be almost immediately made up for by all the brilliant modders that are part of the Unreal community and therefore it is something that Legend can afford to not give a full priority as opposed to a multiplayer focussed game like UT/UW.
Or perhaps we should have some weapons unique to SP which may affect play-balance in MP :D

Point taken ,though any mods that enhance the game's multiplayer element will only appear on a small amount of servers .I think they should do all they can to get weapon balance right . as the deafault gametypes will be running on almost all the servers ..I like your idea for special weapons that only appear in single player ,a great idea :)

GringoLoco
23rd Aug 2001, 09:10 PM
FLAKL WILL RULE YOUR ASSES!

BZMew2|PuF
24th Aug 2001, 12:04 AM
I hope Legend is reading this...

Quake 3 used cliché'd weapons... and look what happened to it. PLEASE be more original... :).

ASMDFreak
24th Aug 2001, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by BZMew2|PuF
I hope Legend is reading this...

Quake 3 used cliché'd weapons... and look what happened to it. PLEASE be more original... :).

Quake 3 is still VERY popular .The weapons are tweaked variants of Q2 for the most part but the weapon balance is utterly superb ,giving the most in depth ,skilled deathmatch experience to date .Its the people that bought and tried quake 3 casually that spit up these arguments relating to unoriginal weapons etc ..the quakers (people like me) understand the inate game mechanics and realise this argument holds no weight .By all means create new and exciting weaponry /gameplay elements but don't neglect your loyal fanbase -->this is Id's philosophy ...

Snipeo
25th Aug 2001, 08:59 PM
Inovation (sp) is the essence of PC gaming as a whole. UT kept it alive with some of the most inovative weapons seen in a game, I'm sure they'll surprise us with some new and '1337' weapons in the future :cool:

ravenus
25th Aug 2001, 09:47 PM
Point to note Snipeo
UT owes most of its arsenal to Unreal. Only the Impact Hammer, Pulse Rifle, Redeemer and Translocator are all-new.

edhe
25th Aug 2001, 09:49 PM
Ok, so a lot of people use the flak to spam and spam away, but i love it. Primary is useless at any kind of range, but the secondary is one of the sweetest shots you can make, if you get it right. Something i'm always trying. I think it should really definitely be in, though with adjustments like a larger spread in the shrapnel on primary aswell as adding ballistics to it to stop it from reaching so far....but the secondary is beautiful, and the only adjustment should be your own name writtin on the front of the shell :D

that's my two pence.