where to go, if your country sucks?

I'm an American (in case there was any doubt ) and I don't think my country is rotten, but I don't think it's as good as it could be...It would be nice to have that as a 3rd option.

I'm an American, and I think my country is rotten, and I will not run like a coward and hide under some rock while I let everyone else suffer.

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canada's great, could be better. isn't that the state of all democratic countries?

This is going to be a LONG post so gear up:

Judjing that a country is rotten can be based on 3 things: Politics, Society and Employment.

Politics: 25% here. USA has very bad politics so I consider it rotten, mainly because it fires up wars everywhere and it has the power of an embargo. The first one can be explained by desire to have stable economy but the second one is unforgiveable, it disrupts a process of natural selection of countries which is not welcome in this world.

Society: This one's 65%, people watch Survivor, which is the stupidest show I've ever seen. But people are communicative and not so mean like in ex-USSR countries. The competition for the customer service and thus money makes us customers happy but monopolies make a price deadlock.

Employment: 100% on this one, USA has the most opportunites in the world. Also it is the heart of the Internet and most high-tech engineering offices are located there. Employment is the best part of US.

FYI, Norway is #1 country, Source: UNESCO;

Of course there are lots of other factors, but what matters most is finding the right position in your life. I mean getting a strong position in your job, ex. best C++ programmer in your department. Caring about your country's future can't do anything unless you have any sort of power(political, commercial, etc.)

I moved to Canada from Russia so that makes my review somewhat unbiased.

If you hate me for this post, just tell me.

Reactor, I disagree. I see America's Politics as about a 70%. There are flaws, but not to as great of an extent as you'd think. Democracy's great, and the only flaws I see with America's government right now is the fact they nanny everyone too much in some ways and couldn't care less in others. The society's a poor 40%. Everyone's either stoned, a real ditz, or a f*cking idiot. It shames me. Empolyment, I wouldn't know, so I guess I'll have to agree there.

I am looking into moving to Holland within the next few years.

I think it would be so sweet to sit down in a coffee shop and order a variety of bud and hash and sit there and smoke it while drinking a mocha grande.

Hmmmmm Australia.

Australia is good I think. Opportunity, diverse culture, relatively low unemployment level. I like living in australia.

Problem that I have with Australia is that the present government is pretty much living in the 50's. They really dont give a sh1t about the underprivelaged or disadvantaged. They dont care about education. I just hope that they dont get in to power again at the next election (later in the year hopefully). an example of our government and the backward nature of their policies is that they have/are trying to bring in Internet laws that ban specific sites for Australia. needless to say its not going to well for them. I am not a fan of censorship (if you cant tell).

Apart from this Australia is pretty cool (but could be better - if the Government gave me around 500,000 dollars a year for nothing )

Holland sucks, too expensive, suck ass weather and fat, stupid and lazy people are becoming more prevalent every year.
On top of this the educational system is becoming worse, strikes happen more and more often and public transportation cannot be relied. Furthermore I just can'tstant the politcis here, I HATE COMPROMISES and guess what nothing ever gets done here because everybody is always compromising afraid of ticking off the oposition or losing power.

I have to laugh when i see people defending the US political system. Its a two party system (you have a choice between the right or the extreme right), practically no ethnic or cultural minorities are represented, and if choose to vote for a third party (nader anyone?), your might as well tear your vote up cos there are about 10 million draindead hicks voting for bush for every one of you.

Not to mention the multi-million dollar campaigns which are funded by corporate america, the ratings-mad media frenzy that surrounds elections, the dumbed-down electoral mandates that the politicians take to the people. (I'll cut taxes! gasp!)

Democracy my arse.

MetalMickey, I love your thinking.. Your thinking is exactly the reason why nobody votes for any third parties. They go to vote, thinking, "Well, I agree with him, but I don't want to waste my vote..." YOU WILL NOT WASTE YOUR VOTE! TRUST ME!

... Grr...

Australia - fantastic place.

I spent 3 months working in Melbourne and loved every minute of it (Although having a huge expenses payment probably helped)

Great weather, Great people, Great Cities and Great countryside.
Its also a country which is 'on the up' as opposed to one which is in decline (like mine - the UK)

So if I was going to go anywhere, it would be there.

If Nader had won I woulda shot myself. . But anyway, even if Bush is stupid, I would vote righty tighty any day of the week. Well If I could vote. But next election I'll be 18. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

what do you see? what would the usa look like, if it was for you?
give good examples? or is it just socialism as your avatar karl marx indicates

Click to expand...

If I could remake America from scratch:
1) We need a completely new constitution. The current standard of legal language needs to be abandoned. Because the people have been kept ignorant they cannot understand that the wording of the second amendment is such that individuals can own weapons. That lets the aristocracy disarm them. To prevent this from happening again, this constitution must be written in the vulgar language of the time. Any power not explicity granted to the government will be illegal for the government to do (same as it is supposed to be today). All bills passed must mention what constitutional clause makes that bill legal.
2) The death penelty will be reserved for the most severe crimes: violations of civil liberties, human rights, or war crimes. Public officials, law enforcement officers, or any other public servent that is convicted of one of those crimes should be allowed to be executed, and that execution should be allowed to be televised.
3) Martial law is completely illegal. Martial law is a temptation for the abusive power hungry politicians. Of all the times I can think of at the top of my head of times martial law was declared in the U.S., only 1 was justified. Most of the time it was used because the working class was refusing to submit to slavery.
4) We need a pure democracy, which is possible with current technology. Computers will be standardized and optimized for use with a secure internet voting system. The elected legislators would propose bills, but bills must recieve a majority vote from the legislature and the people to pass.
5) Constitutional issues will be resolved by a board of elected officials independent of the courts.
6) The only other elected official would be the president, who's only real power is in foreign relations. His domestic duties would only be managing the beuracracy.
7) We need a socialist economy. As a pure democracy all of the means of production of goods and services will be controlled by the people. The government will be devided into seperate departments for each catagory of good or service to be produced, each run similar to capitalist corperations. The leadership positions in each department will be elected positions. The beuracrats are elected only for menial management. All major decisions will be made by democratic vote of all people. Any beuracrat who disrupts the electoral process and does not allow a vote may, if convicted, be executed for commiting a capital crime.
8) The government will disentangle itself from religion. I am not refering to issues of seperation of church and state. The current government has taken it upon itself to take control of things like marriage. Marriage is a religious issue, not a binding legal contract. Government control of marriage allows discrimination against homosexuals who are not allowed to marry or the non-religious who have no religious requirement for a marriage ritual.
9) Currency will be completely electronic and the ammount of money in circulation will be proportional to the population, controlled by an absolute porportion (as in cannot be legally changed). Currency will be gradually phased out.
10) Elected officials are elected for terms of 1 year. Any elected official can be recalled at any time.
11) Taxes will be phased out with currency. The gradual goal is to make distribution of goods and services based on need.
12) The constitution cannot be amended. At any time a majority vote can be called to create a new constitution, but it must be completely recreated. That can act as a system of checks of balances in itself. If some Nazi wants to ban guns, they have to risk something in the current consitution they support also being taken out. Legislators will draft the constition but it is subject to majority vote by the people. States will have the right to succeed from the United States at times of constitution change and only at times of constitutional change if the majority of the state population does not approve.
13) The military will be subject to a maximum size. The size can be changed by majority vote. The Constitution will limit the size of the military to the maximum needed for a defensive war. If max limit is set too high it can be declared unconstitutional. The military will be banned from civilian law enforcement.

That's an abdridged overview of my major ideas of the perfect society
I'm sure I could think of issues I am forgetting now if I spent more time, but I'm too deprived of sleep to continue concentrating no this.

Reactor, I disagree. I see America's Politics as about a 70%. There are flaws, but not to as great of an extent as you'd think. Democracy's great, and the only flaws I see with America's government right now is the fact they nanny everyone too much in some ways and couldn't care less in others. The society's a poor 40%. Everyone's either stoned, a real ditz, or a f*cking idiot. It shames me. Empolyment, I wouldn't know, so I guess I'll have to agree there.

Click to expand...

You are right, but your judgement is based on where you live, and again we have different points of views.

My two cents (which post 7 cents to actually MAKE!!!)

Firstly, let me say this, I don't think any country is perfect. However, the US was founded on the principles that the people would rule, essentially, and that idea has been abandoned somewhere along the line. This is all that I feel needs to change. The people need to be heard again, heard, and acted upon!
I agree whole-heartedly with Rogue's post. He's put a lot of thought into his ideas, and I have to say that they practically overlap mine. The few differences are in the electronic currency ideas. I'm sorry, but I don't want all of my funding being electronic. I have had my checking account number stolen from the internet before, so I know first-hand how easy it is to have such things abused once they are made e-accessible. I don't really know of an alternative, though, since we are actually spending more to mint money than the money itself is worth. I DO suppose this is offset by the manufacture of large bills, but let's face it . . . $0.07 to manufacture something with a monetary value of $0.01? I understand there are similar discrepancies in the cost of manufacturing nearly ALL coinage. Then again, once more, it costs about $1.50 or so to make a $100 bill. I guess there's some research to be done there. Whatever the case is, though, I just don't want to have everything I have earned being kept in an electronic form, and have something like a mainframe crash basically cause me to lose it all . . . something like that could possibly cause another depression, because if EVERYONE had their accounts electronically stored, with no other hard-copy back-up, and no actual currency, then essentially speaking, we would have nothing, and I don't see the FDIC being able to cover EVERYONE'S money. Damn. That went on a tangent

Some people want to get rid of the penny because it cost so much more to make it than it is worth. But I say just wait until the economy deflates again
And it will deflate. Especially when under the control of 1 man, who is unelected, it will deflate. Deflation is great for lenders and slaughter for the working people. I bet we will see Greenspan keep cutting rates at a slow but steady rate (can't make it obvious) to prompt deflation. Because the spending sprees caused by the good economy of the 90's, most people are in debt. By deflating prices, that $1000 owed is now more money than it was before, resulting in a really healthy profit for lenders. And bankrupting the people.

So covertly, the government is stealing back it's money. But I would love to see the penny go, it's to god damn insignificant. I got 4 pennies change yesterday and I just threw them in the trash.