Infiltration...or......strikeforce!?!?!?

[PTPjr.]

After enjoying infiltration i decided to go ahead and try Strike Force. 14 hour download!!!!! they didn't even have it broken into segments. Turns out not only is it full of bugs.......but it seems to me to be a bad attempt at blending tactOps with Inf. I just wanted to let other Inf fans know that its really not worth the $14.00 for the disk or the 14 hours for the download. Basically.......Infiltration rocks and StrikeForce rots. The download time would be better spent downloading new Infiltration maps!!
i'm not here to start a war...........just to save others from the SF trap.

[HeresJohnny]

the general concensus is that sf has less bugs than inf. no insult to inf of course, but you're quite wrong about sf having lots of bugs. perhaps you didn't install correctly?

JohnnyT <-- that's me --

[NotBillMurray]

I agree. SF is probably one of the most stable mods out there.

[Beagle_One]

Let's NOT go down this path again.

SF is SF, and INF is INF. You don't like SF, and I don't like SF. Fine. Who cares. Many people like SF, and let's leave it at that.
:)

[hawaiian c]

Originally posted by Beagle_One
Let's NOT go down this path again.

SF is SF, and INF is INF. You don't like SF, and I don't like SF. Fine. Who cares. Many people like SF, and let's leave it at that.
:)
:cool: : ok you take that pathand i go this way

BOOOM

:cool: :ummm i secon thought u take this path and i take that one
BOOOOM BOOOO BAH BOOOOM

:cool: :god dam it

:p : hehe he dos not know im on the other team hehe

[DarkBls]

SF and INF are different.

Some people prefer Sf over INF and vice versa.

They have both their own universe.

I could close this thread because I'm 90% sure we will have a flame war by some stupid people who have nothing else to do.

I don't close it. But At the first rude post => Close.

[Mason]

PTP, are you TRYING to get us(the Inf. forum) into a fight with the SF forums again?

From my experience, SF 1.6 is VERY stable...I have had no serious problems with it. I like the mod very mch and the D/L only took 20 minutes with my cable line.

PTP, to be fair, tell us exactly WHY you don't like SF...try to be objective and intelligent in your opinions. "Inf. rocks and SF rots" is not exactly an intelligent expression of your opinion.

[Buddy_Pickle]

Thank you Mason...you hit it right on the head.

[DarkBls]

It is because of such post, I like this community !http://shoe.free.fr/msmiley/grin.gif

[Mason]

Hey Pickle, was that you I saw briefly on a SF server the other day? ;)

[RogueLeader]

I propose a new forum rule. Any threads that pit Inf against SF should be locked. Then those who created them should be hunted down and shot.

[Mason]

Hey, that's censorship....certainly YOU would not actually be ADVOCATING censorship? Not the mighty "Rogue Leader"!:D

[Wikkan]

Our guided bomb boy will more than likely oppose censorship while censoring any retarded "SF SUX! INF ROX0rz!" threads.

[DarkBls]

I thin kwe can speak about SF and INF. This kind of thread is safe till some dumbass start to try to be rude to other

[Uppity]

Originally posted by RogueLeader
I propose a new forum rule. Any threads that pit Inf against SF should be locked. Then those who created them should be hunted down and shot.

Hunted down and shot in SF or in INF ? I'd say in INF cos it hurts more ;-)

[Beagle_One]

Surprisingly, a flame war hasn't begun yet.

I guess it's because only intelligent people have so far read this thread.:)

[Uppity]

On a serious note. I havn't really seen an objective attempt at comparing the main (IMO) 'realistic' combat games - INF, SF, UT, TO and CS.

It would be nice to see something like that done. I certainly havn't had chance to spend enough time on these to be able to do this properly. Hmm, maybe I will one day though....

[DeeperShade]

Originally posted by DarkBls
This kind of thread is safe till some dumbass start to try to be rude to other

You called? :D

[DarkBls]

Hehehttp://shoe.free.fr/msmiley/clin.gif

[Mason]

My quick, personal, review of the 'realism' mods out there..in several categories Character models, Guns, Gameplay, Online play, Sound. I have played TacOps, Inf., SF, and CS. I don't outright hate any of them.

Character models: I think CS has decent animations and models. Infiltration models look good(love the uniforms) and they seem to hold the weapons correctly. TacOps models seem too 'hunched over' and there is some inconsistency with the way they appear to handle their weapons. SF, my only problem here is that they appear to carry their guns in the old 'UT' fashion, one handed...even when they shoot. My bottom line here, I actually like the CS characters and animation, even though I LOVE Infiltration's uniforms.

Guns: I don't like TO weapon models. The CS models look a little 'blocky' to me as well( although I LOVE their scopes). SF and Inf have the best models...SF has more 'detail' while the Inf models appear more three-dimensional. Bottom line: Tie between SF and Inf( I really can't decide).

Sound: Don't like TO, it sounds weird on my system..kind of muffled, and the hostages sound plain stupid. CS sounds too..unreal, something about it just doesn't sit right with me, not that I don't enjoy it, I do, I just think some other mods sound better. SF sounds, very cool, very 'action movie-esque', the gunshots, deathgrunts, voice commands...very well done. Infiltration, gunshots sound very 'real' to me...very close to what I have been told they sound like( and from what I've seen on the history and discovery channels). The chatter from the soldiers is good as well. Although Infiltration guns sound better( more real), I give the nod to SF because of the atmosphere and the high number of voice commands. The gun sounds do their job. SF wins, but not by much.

Gameplay: TO has DM, TDM, Hostage rescue....not bad. CS has rescue, VIP, bomb defusal...more gameplay options. SF had your standard DM/TDM, also has Hostage rescue and Escape. Infiltration only has DM/TDM right now(soon to change). Based on this, CS has the edge as far as gameplay options are concerned. But we allknow there is more to gameplay than just the options.

Gameplay in CS is too fast for my taste, with too much bunnyhopping and cheats for it to be too enjoyable to me, although I LOVE playing it offline with the new PODBot 3.0. TacOPs is OK, nothing about the gameplay stands out to me, if I want to play hostage rescue I'll play SF or CS(CS offlline), they do the job much better. SF gameplay is very balanced, sometimes at the expense of realism, which is fine because they are looking for a more 'action movie' feel. No one team has an advantage over the other, except maybe hostage rescue (on some maps the Terr seem to have the advantage). Infiltration gameplay is pretty good now that the 'nades have been toned down a bit. Things seem pretty balanced right now( my only complaint being the running speed, still too fast IMO). Bottom line: SF edges Inf due to more gamemodes, a more 'lifelike' pace and I love their weapon/equipment selection.

Online play: TO, nope...can't do it, don't really like it at all. CS, too fast and hectic, cheaters and buttheads abound. The battle here is between SF and Inf. Infiltration online play can be fantastic! I have had awesome sessions playing online...but TDM gets old after a while. SF offers TDM but the other two modes:Escape and Hostage rescue are an absolute blast! I rarely have many frustrating online experiences with SF. If the choice is TDM, then Infiltration rules, but given the extra two play mondes, SF again edges out Inf(at least until the EAS mode enters the picture).

One last category I would liketo add: Intangibles...this reflects upcoming changes in the works and the general 'direction' of the mod. TacOps, really, I don't see it going anywhere..updates on their site is sporadic at best, etc. CS, they have the new 'Condition Zero' in the works which should be cool. SF is always looking to tweak the game to the perfection of a commercial product, and are on their way. Infiltration is trying to do so many new things with the UT engine that I HAVE to give this category to them...leaning, prone position and crawling, ironsights aiming, etcetera...the development team is trying to do SOOO much with UT, and it never ceases to amaze me what they can do with it.

So, on a '10 point must' scale...(winner getting a 'ten') the score is as follows:
Character Models:CS 10, Inf 9, SF 8, TO 7
Weapons:Inf/SF(tie) 10, CS 8, TO 7
Sounds:SF 10, Inf 9, CS 8, TO 7
Gameplay: SF 10, Inf 9, CS 8, TO 7
Online:SF 10, Inf 9, CS 8, TO 7
Intangibles(counts twice): Inf 10, SF 9, CS 8, TO 7

Final tally: TO 49, CS 58, Inf and SF 66
I really didn't plan for it to work out like that, honest! I counted 'Intangibles' twice because we all have that game, that we keep coming back to , for some reason or another, and Infitration IS that game for me.

Well, there you have it, my 'objective' opinion(yeah, right)....let me know what you think, the phone lines are open: dial OPI-NION(you all can spell and count, right?)
:D

[DarkBls]

I give the nod to SF because of the atmosphere

What about the new environment sound we have in the 2.85.5 ?http://shoe.free.fr/msmiley/confused.gif

And we must keep in mind, that INF is more a military environement simulator than a game for now.

[Mason]

I like the enviromental sounds in Inf, I just like the way that SF does their sounds...when I am playing I always feel like I am in a firefight in some Lethal Weapon movie or something. I know Inf. is more realistic in this respect. It's just a matter of personal preference. I like being surrounded by sound.

[A|pha5]

Originally posted by Beagle_One
I guess it's because only intelligent people have so far read this thread.:)

LOL. No I read it as well. But the guy who started it is too pathetic to comment on.

[DeeperShade]

hmm...

Locky locky :D

[Mason]

Alpha, behave yourself.....:hmm: :cool:

[Sgt.Dumb_Ass>>>]

my brain is exploding with things to say... but i'm a little tired... so i'll let this one slide by...

BTW... DarkBlows sorta sounds like KillDawg... so eager and anxious to close a thread....

well it's time for my nap...

DA

[DarkBls]

Originally posted by Sgt.Dumb_Ass>>>
my brain is exploding with things to say... but i'm a little tired... so i'll let this one slide by...

BTW... DarkBlows sorta sounds like KillDawg... so eager and anxious to close a thread....

well it's time for my nap...

DA

DarkBlows... *sigh*http://shoe.free.fr/msmiley/rolleyes.gif

I forgive you to don't understand why I said that. You seem to be pretty new here. We had some troule about this topi from the past weeks.

[Snake13]

I'm pretty sure he knows why, look at his sig

[hawaiian c]

oh boy i now think inf and sf should join force's why you ask you people cant make up your mine!!!

i know it sounds lame but what ever path we take we always come back to sf vs inf hell when we come back people change there commets or witch sides

qestion is is this the race to the top or is it the race to realsem?
that was my point at my last reply.

[Sgt.Dumb_Ass>>>]

:stupid:

if you have no idea who i am then... well you can ask around for the story on me... i'm sorta famous, or infamous, whichever.... i suggest you do ask around... i'm sorta curious to what legends have be fabricated... LOL some true and some not... at least it'll be entertaining for the lot of you...

DA
***I am the one, the only, DumbAss around... all others bow to my power... Those who fear me, don't cross me... Those who cross me... regret it!!!*** :D :D :D

[Sgt.Dumb_Ass>>>]

just to give you an example of the kind of power or influence i have... I forced the SF Team to release 1.60... :D :D :D

[PTPjr.]

Hm I only got notification today of a reply so my failure to reply isn't because I'm pathetic, by the way did I mention that i didn't nor do I plan to slander anyone, repay the respect. You want a detailed esonable list as to whats wrong with SF and right with INF? I'd be more than happy to.
CONS
SF:
#1) Either you pay 14 dollars or spend 14 hours downloading.
#2) In training mod the enemies are weaponless (may only be me and really isn't that big of a deal but you asked for detailed and then called me names without just cause so deal with it).
#3) Weapons do not come up to eye level so how are you supposed to properly use the weapons natural sights?
#4) Inventory station? With 16 people running around blasting down every corridoor as if it were a game of regular UT...........how are you supposed to have time to change weapons when you need to?
#5) What in the world were they thinking when they set up the in game speech menu(not to mention a lack of speechbinder)?
#6) Why can you see gunflash through solid walls?
#7) Why does one single shotgun in your posession affect movement speed so drastically?
#8) Why does prone have to be set to another button?
#9) Why don't you have the choice to walk or run?
#10) Why can't you run when holding the selected weapon in what I think is supposed to be SF's version of raising the weapon to eye level? Supposed to be a "reallity" based mod right? So in real life we can't run with weapons raised? hmm

Now flipside time........................PROS
#1) Character model choices!! love that.
#2) I agree with the other poster that some of the "environmental" sounds are nicer.
#3) The maps are really intricate (some are flawed in silly ways though).



Inf time.................CONS
#1) Maps need to be more intricate, not meaning bigger, just more things in them ie: furniture, wall hangings ect ect.
#2) No player model choices =(.

Inf.................Pros
#1) The stamina physics is brilliant!! Weapons bulk to stamina affect is very balanced, and reallistic.
#2) Control scheme was well thought out.
#3) Handling of weapons.......using weapons own natural sites is wonderfull.
#4) Speechbinder is intact, and in game "V" menu works well. The additions to it were simple and straight forward.




Finally.....................
SF: Seems premature and not very well thought out in terms of "reallity" (bad thing for a mod calling itself reallity based). The guys are really on to something though and I do truly hope that it becomes a great mod!! Could be lots of fun with some minor and a few major changes. Biggest downside is 14dollars or 14 hours for a mod that just seems to be in its infancy still.

INF: What can one say in summery about a mod that was well thought out and exicuted? A mod that claims "reallity based" and really gives you that.


Look I know each team wants to do something different than what everyonelse is doing. I think that rocks! But to do go out of ones way to make things worse or more difficult than they have to be just for sake of being able to claim you are different is.......well silly. Invintory stations in the battle feild are not reallistic (a little too Tact Opsish). Physics are of absolute importance when dealing with a "reallity based" mod. I hate to say it after 14 hours of downloading but SF just doesn't have these physics,yet. There isn't a mod out there that captures reallity based physics like INF. SF people you should give INF an honest go. Also INF people don't expect what you might expect from SF. My intention was not to start a war.............if anyone wants a war they can name the server, date, and time. My intention was to let other gamers (mostly but not exclusively INF players) know that SF is to premature to spend $14.00 or 14 hours downloading on. And one more time for those of you who just come in the forums to call people names out of loyalist prejudice...............................if you want a war let me know: Inf,SF,tact ops,ut...................whatever you like.

This post was about the reallity of reallity in reallity based mods and in the end INF captures reallity better than SF.............and thats just the reallity of it!!

[hawaiian c]

:cool: hay umm u know that guy in the fourms?
:) witch guy? theres like 50 of them.
:cool: u know that guy that made a fool of him self.
:) oh u mean darklbls?
:cool: no DA.
:) oh dumb ass!
:cool: hehe yah i gess he live up to his name
:) lol i gess so lol
:cool: lol


bad move of telling us to ask around DA the truth will never come to you unless its in a bad timing. so look out
u are a good guy DA
you da man hehe

[Wikkan]

Weapon models in SF as good as Inf!? I most certainly disagree. Look at the SF M4. The textures arent even aligned! But, the SF M9 looks superb! A little shiney, so not as realistic. (You don't go into combat with a shiney gun. Damn that Inf DE...) The weapon models in Inf (minus the M16's M203 nade launcher) are perfect, down to a T. The best, most accurate and beautiful looking renditions of real life guns in any game I've seen. Ever. :D Though the models in SF are very good, but not everything is Inf. Best animations I've seen come from both mods, and yeah, I was wrong about the reload time on the M4, sort of. The only time you would slide a mag out and in that fast is if a round was still chambered. Its proper procedure to eject the chambered round when reloading an assault rifle, to prevent stoppages. (Same goes for sub machine-guns.) But yeah, you can switch magazines pretty quick IRL. About atmosphere, SF was very actioney, but not enough to totally immerse me. I prefer Inf for the pure adrenal (OH F<b></b>UCK I'M GONNA DIE...) feeling. SF I play for the pure fun of it. I get the, "damnit! Died again! Better not do that next round..." feeling with SF. Not like... "it's game over, man! GAME OVER!" feeling I get with Inf. Better of the two? Well, there is no better. SF is the most realistic action game, but Inf is like "can't get the goddamn plane of the runway" type simulator. Kay maybe not that bad, but you gotta be a bloody good shot to get far in Inf. No I'm not British.

[Mason]

Hey, we each have our own opinion(even if yours is the wrong one, Wikkan ;) j/k) and each is valid. I can't judge SF by the same standards as Inf because they are aiming at two totally different things. Is John Woo's Face/Off a better action movie than Lethal Weapon? It's totally dependant on personal taste.

By the way, I believe that Sgt. Dumb Ass was the guy who, I believe, hacked into a SF development site and 'stole' 1.6. If this is true, he really is a dumb ass. This being the case, Alpha 5 is the least of our worries.:cool:

[Tommy Atkins]

Originally posted by PTPjr.

Inf time.................CONS
...
#2) No player model choices =(.
...


Waddaya mean, no choice of models? You get to pick your own HAT for God's sake :D or go for the blonde buzzcut that only a damn Yankee could love ;)

[Ballistophobia]

Regarding the original question, both.
http://ballistophobia.homestead.com/files/Al/Alsmile.gif

Originally posted by PTPjr.
SF:
#1) Either you pay 14 dollars or spend 14 hours downloading.


I didn't spend a dime and it took me less than 10 mins to download.
http://ballistophobia.homestead.com/files/Al/Algrin.gif

[PTPjr.]

someone posted that INF was more bug filled than SF............go check out SF's forum.......=) lol I didn't think it was just me having big prolems. The SF community is having trouble with 1.60.
More trouble it seems than the INF community with 2.85.5!

[DeeperShade]

someone please kill this.. apart from DA's egotism (which is making me puke) its moving away from the 'nice opinion expression' area into the 'J00 = ANUSCAKE!' area...

[Mason]

PTP, you are new, so we can't expect you to know all the problems that were encountered when 2.85 came out. The online code had problems with leaning, people going loony with grenade launchers and the 'proning' situation. I haven't heard of any major 'glitches' with SF 1.6. There are a few minor problems that occur sporadically, but I haven't heard of anything major as of yet. I joined the SF forums right before 1.6 came out and check there several times daily and I have yet to hear about any 'major' bugs, just little 'idiosyncrocies' with a few weapons. The biggest problem I have heard with 1.6 is the dorks who are whining that they can't run at superhuman speeds anymore...that is not a bug, but a design decision to encourage teamplay by slowing everyone down.

Oh, and PTP....the Infiltration training map doesn't even have 'live' targets, although it is MUCH cooler than the SF one. The point of SF inventory system is so that you are NOT switching weapons like you're playing Quake. You pick a weapon and you stick with it, I, for one, like it. You DO have the choice to walk or run. Did you READ the manual or look at the key binding screen? As for running while aiming, if you want to aim accurately, you are NOT going to be running full speed. PTP, no offense, but you really need to do a little research before posting stuff like this. You rip SF for their 'bulk' system but praise Inf for theirs? That makes no sense. Honestly, I don't understand where your point of view is coming from...I don't mean that as an insult, I just can't 'see' your line of thought on these issues.

[Wikkan]

What the hell do you mean my opinion is wrong, Mason? :D

You can honestly say, that the SF weapon models are as good as Inf's? :D I think its time to say J00= ANUSCAKE.


(Just kidding ;) )

[Mason]

LMAO!

What I mean is that the 'skin'(?) on SF weapons, although unrealistically 'shiny' on some, appeals to me on some level. Maybe it just looks more 'detailed' to me. The Inf. weapons have a more 3-Dimensional feel, but don't necessarily look as detailed. I honestly like them both the same. Certain weapons look better in Inf than SF (MP5, PSG) and a few SF weapons I like the look of more than Inf(M4, shotgun) and some look basically the same (Robar).

Wikkan, may you be sexually assaulted by a rabid bunny with sharp, pointy fangs!:D

[DeRailer]

Fun, Peace, Joy and Laughter.
No I'm not kidding. :D

[Ballistophobia]

ROFL! There is no Robar in SF! :D

[Mason]

Oops, my bad...I totally blew that! LOL SF has the Barrett, Inf has the Robar...maybe I was thinking of CS.

This seems odd: SF gives the Terrorists a sniper rifle(m40) and make it do MORE damage(according to the manual) than the Barretts .50 cal. Why not just give the Terrorist a Robar or one of the other .50 sniper rifles instead of 'souping up' a 7.62 sniper rifle?

[DEFkon]

My personal opinons ( not actual quality ratings!! )

As far as the best looking models in a realism FPS, i'd have to give it to Rainbow Six "Rogue Spear". Of all the games in this catagory the models look "satisfactory" and the animations are excelent ( i guess thats what a motion capture studio will get you ). To me, animation is worth twice as much as the detail of the model in terms of creating a realsitc presentation. I could point out a number of military stuidies into camo to back up the scientific reasoning behind that but i'll assume you'll take my word for it. Basically the human eye is VERY good at detecting organic, and in particular human movement, from mechanical movement. So in my opinon i'll give a higher score to someone with the better animations.

Graphics & sounds?
that's a rather difficult one to rate, because it relies heavily on the engine of the game as well as authors talent. As far as sound goes.. INF has the most apealing sounds for the weapons, but because Counter-Strike uses the Half-life engine it also benefits from a superior sound engine. It's true that INF also has a decent sound "engine" but because it takes a hit on performance on my machine i don't enjoy it much.

Graphically speaking INF's weapon animations are miles above the competeion.. not 100% accurate ( if i'm not mistaken the SIG rifles's animation should be nearly identical in procedure to the AK's bolt pull back...) but still much better than anything in competition. I remember almost a year ago Gooseman made a post saying that his animation for the M4 reload was complete bs... and i'm astounded that now in version 1.1 NOBODY not even the comunity modelers, and animation people have fixed it.. jeeesh.. i guess golden shiny guns are far higher on the priority list.... :P

The only thing i dont like about the INF guns ironically are the textures. Many of the textures look very blurry (small textures perhaps) esp when shouldered. And while although the might be very reaslitic on some of the weapons they don't always give alot of definition to their models. the renderings in the Armory always look awsome, but somehow when they get in the game the don't look right. but again this is just a personal opinion..

Gameplay...
hmm each plays differntly which seems pretty odd since they're all shooting for realism. As far as "realism" goes... again i have to give it to Rainbow six. They had a very basic "run, walk, crouch, crouch run, side step, and peek" that while although didn't have a complicated bulk system it was still very effective at making players move realistically (the ultimate goal), because it effected aim so drastically. Unfortunatly it didn't have a prone feature, although "Ghost Recon" (Redstorms Rainbow six meets US Army sim) will include it.

Overall.

INF- Alot of work in details make it an excelent choice. Although the mod seems to be in a state of denial or self-discovery. It's curently aiming for a "military/army/special forecs" feel but it's stuck on an engine that's good at Urban/cqb styled maps. The team has shown alot of dedication to the Unreal engines so hopefully with the release of the next unreal engine INF will be given the proper enviroments to evolve into what it's trying to become.

Pros- Very realistic weapons. lots of options.
Cons - Stupid bots, noticeable performance hit, twitch gaming due to unevoleved movement methodology.

---------
CS- Fun. Not overly realistic but still very enjoyable. It's a CQB game on an engine that does those types of enviroments very well. Whats funny is that the unoffical bots (pod, android ect) put INF's (which uses the UT engine that boasts of great AI bots) to shame.

Pros- Nice balance of gameplay and realism.
cons- trades realism off for gameplay.

---------

Tactical Ops- Obviously "inspired" by Counter - Strike the game leans even more toward arcade gaming than realism. Its one of the somewhat sucsessfull Counter-Strike Clones that's now striving to be different.

Pros- umm - no head shots?.. er
Cons- never mind

--------

SF - The weapons and thier damage are weaker than what i'd assume they'd be in reality. The movement speeds and types are well balanced, and the bots do fairly well. Above all SF does a good job of creating a realistic looking world with it's high quality maps.

Pros- Good maps & movement style
Cons - weapons aren't very detailed or realistic in terms of damage.

[Kuroshio Apocal]

Originally posted by Tommy Atkins
...or go for the blonde buzzcut that only a damn Yankee could love ;)

To be honest, I have only seen Germans using that as their headgear.

[PTPjr.]

Whoah I'm not judging anyonelses opinions. Its not anyones opinion but my own that was originally posted and then redefined/clarified later on. My point was ............. to me INF feals more like "real life". SF.........to me.........feels more like UT with reallistic weapons and a CS TactOps inventory station. I was dissapointed after 14 hours of downloading. My original and reformed posts were aimed not at inciting a riot but rather letting fellow gamers know that this mod might not be worth the 14 dollars or 14 hours trap. I will also agree that perhaps my download was ...................... not all there , My ability to correctly install is not a question. But who the hell wants to re download a 14 hour monster from a totally different place just to see if the mod gets any better? lol I'm not that guy. I like all of the reallity based mods.........yes to some degre even SF, but 14 hours just to find out theres a ton of problems.........hm. However I do belive that my mod is fine.....in terms of its what they put out there for us to have. I believe the problems I've found are truly problems.............wish they werent. One last thing......I also discovered that quite a few of the problems INF was having was because of the downloads from 'a certain' ftp were damaged or altered. I tested that one because it wasn't 14 hours and it turned out to be true. Maybe I'll ask for the SF cd for Bday or something =).

[CAVERNA2K]

I like inf because I konw inf. I don´t like CS for personal reasons - explained for 3 times - and games alike. I was plaing Delta Force, and man... It´s like Q3, CS... Just shooooooooooooooooottt... Where is the fun in it??? INF ans SOF(Raven) have been the best shooters in the moment.

ABOUT bugs: bugs... well, a program can have many bugs, but work better than a bug free. Bugs are a natural consequence of programming in C/C++. If you make a very simple program, you´ll be sure it is bug free. But a big program, with lots of interactions, like Windows, and mainly, programs made with a low level language, like C++, that are intended for high level applications, are simply too hard to figure out how many bugs(serious and cheap) there are in a game, like INF or in Windows. Thats the way Macs are so expensive: all SCSI and their programs(OS´s) are simply, much; but really much more depurated than a Windows and so.


Just FYI.