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StormHammer
27th Feb 2000, 11:05 PM
I've seen some other postings on this forum about people's hopes for Unreal 2, so I thought I'd put together a wish list. Take a deep breath, this is a long one.

I enjoyed playing the original Unreal (and now I'm enjoying the heart-pumping frag-fests of Unreal Tournament SP), but I think even the original could have been much improved. (Don't worry, I AM wearing a flak jacket, and seated comfortably within a lead-lined, steel-walled underground bunker - so feel free to launch a direct attack against such a controversial statement /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif )

- the monster designs could be a lot better. I'm afraid I HATED the design of the brutes in Unreal 1. They just looked silly to me, so unless they're totally redesigned, keep them out of Unreal 2. I also have to say that some of my favourite 'monster' designs were in Doom (Cyberdemon, Imps, Cacodemons), Quake (Shambler, Fiend, Vore, Scrag), Quake 2 (Parasite, Gladiator, Technician, Gunner, Medic), and Half-Life (Huge Spider-Thing, Huge Blue Thing with built-in flamethrowers, Gigantic Nightmare sound-sensitive Thing in rocket silo). I didn't experience the same kind of awe looking at any of Unreal's nasties - and so I was disappointed. Please make the monsters in Unreal 2 better!
- the story could have been a lot better and had clearer objectives for each area - on some levels I just ended up walking around wondering what to do next, so I hope the story of Unreal 2 is deeper, broader, and has a lot more meaning to it. I enjoyed the storylines of Jedi Knight and Heretic 2 - there was a better purpose, and tighter objectives to accomplish.
- I thought the scripted events in Unreal were great - but there weren't enough of them. In fact, I thought the most menacing and tense atmosphere was aboard the Vortex Rikers. The bit with the Skaarj behind the closed door was simply superb. I hope there are many more of these in Unreal 2, because they can really give the game atmosphere, and mount up the tension.
- the levels were nice and big in Unreal, but I would have preferred more secret areas, and some much tighter designs. The only other SP game I've played with really BIG levels is Jedi Knight, and the level design there was superb. I also love the level designs for Unreal Tournament. I hope there's a way to combine the two for Unreal 2, because then it will be gaming heaven.
- I'd love to play the game with one or two bot companions - I really enjoy playing UT in Team Deathmatch mode, because it gives a real sense of having companions to help you out in a tight squeeze.
- I hope that Unreal 2 (and every other game in the future) has creatures with at least the advanced AI of the bots in UT, whether they be companions or enemies - AND that the intelligence increases/decreases dependent on your own skill level.
- I'd really like to see a vastly improved third person perspective in Unreal 2 - and not just a command-line code. Having played Jedi Knight (in first and third person) and Heretic 2 (third person only), I think the animations and range of movements of those characters (Kyle and Corvus) were very well done. I'm now looking forward to Rune, with it's skeletal animation system. The way the character moved in Behindview in Unreal just didn't look right - there was no 'side-stepping' animation, for example.
- the weapons in Unreal were mostly original, with some very nice effects. The ones in Unreal Tournament are far better. Will any of UT's weapons (or better) creep into Unreal 2? Please?

Well, I'll end it there for now, before I end up writing the damn thing myself.

Any thoughts? /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

------------------
'The enemy can't press a button if you disable his hand...Medic!' (Starship Troopers)

Cammy
28th Feb 2000, 08:46 AM
I thought the titan was a pretty terrifying nasty. And the Skaarj are pretty good too IMO, what with their high agility and ability to cartwheel out of harm's way. But I agree that the enemies can be given even more sophisticated AI -- not that I'm dissatisfied with the nasties in Unreal as they currently stand...

Having too complete a storyline could actually ruin a game as I see it. There's little room left for you to expand on the story with your own imagination -- so that, for one thing, any new levels you might want to create will have to adhere strictly to the story or they just won't fit in. Of course, having zero story sucks too -- as in Quake -- so what you need is to strike a balance between the two extremes. I think Unreal SP has struck such a happy balance. There's enough story for the game not to be a mindless fragfest (unlike UT /~unreal/ubb/html/biggrin.gif), but at the same time a lot is also left to your imagination. What are the beliefs of the Nali? What are their hopes and fears, and what do they try to convey in their art? What about the Skaarj? Why are they such a hostile race? It is all left to your imagination, which is thus given ample room to exercise itself. Besides, it also allows for all sorts of possibilities for future developments of the game in all sorts of possible directions! You can't have that if the story is too complete -- you must then stick within the confines of the original storyline.

Third-person view? I've never been really happy with third-person view games. Perhaps what can be done in U2 is to allow you to toggle between 1st- and 3rd-person views. Then you can choose whichever type of view you like. /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

Walking around wondering what to do next? Hey, that's precisely the idea, isn't it? /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif To slow down your steps and feast your eyes on the beautiful levels you're in... Don't know about you, but I don't play a game or game level just to reach some (clearly defined?) objective. More important to me is to tour the level and enjoy the beautiful scenes, like when you tour the Taj Mahal in India or the ruins of ancient Rome. Frankly, some of the Unreal SP levels are so vast and lovely (such as the Temple of Chizra) I actually wouldn't mind being lost in them forever. /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

What I'd like to see in Unreal II are as follows. First, let there be a mix of hi-tech and sorcery. Let at least one of your weapons be magical in concept. Perhaps it may actually be given to you by one of the Nali gods, who has decided to appoint you as the savior of the Nali. I think that ought to be cool. Second, perhaps the levels can be seamlessly joined together as in Half-Life, but at the same time divided into a number of distinct episodes, so that each episode will seem like a single humongous level. Third, perhaps you can encounter some human survivors as the game goes along, who can help you or otherwise interact with you, much as the guards and scientists in HL. Fourth -- yup -- I'd like more scripts, too.


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Mmmm... Creamy legs...

Hellscrag
29th Feb 2000, 04:15 PM
To the original poster: yes, Brutes were tacky, but as to Shamblers and Fiends, no, that's not Unreal. Unreal attempted a more realistic and convincing environment as opposed to trawl through Gothic dimensions. Shamblers and Fiends sure, they work great for Quake, and I mean GREAT, but not for Unreal. Wouldn't a Shambler look a little out of place on the ISV-Kran? And Q2's critters are just dull and irritating. Especially the Gladiators and Parasites. I didn't find Unreal's creatures disappointing, I found them just right.

I agree more with Cammy's view. Everything Cammy said sounded just about right, except for the bit about magic... Unreal is basically you, the futuristic player, intruding in the Nali world (which has already been intruded in by the Skaarj, Mercenaries and of course the crashed Terran ships), and as such I feel that the player should be armed with weaponry appropriate to his/her heritage. Leave the megic to the Nali. As to "episodes", I'm not sure about that one, I liked the one flowing world concept in Unreal.

Basically, I would like to see more of classic Unreal but with enhancements; I don't want to change the complexion completely (as Quake II single player did to Quake with as far as I'm concerned severe negative consequences). Scripting yes - magic no. Shamblers no. Enhanced Skaarj; now there's an idea :-) .

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Hellscrag, Unreal single player nut :) . In deathmatch look for me as [SkW]Deathwish of UK clan SkaarjWarriors. Email me hellscrag@lineone.net.
Check my website http://surf.to/scragsite for Unreal Walkthroughs and other cool stuff or my clan site http://surf.to/skaarjwarriors for my UT designing projects

falcon611
3rd Mar 2000, 05:54 AM
Well I don't know 'bout you guys, but I love Titans. Especially in Co-Op over the net, as its a lot of fun, when they take ages to kill, (unless of course you have 8 players each with an eightball) don't move too fast, so Its not that bad with lag, and their always in a wide open area, so they're easy to dodge!

But whatever they do, I hope they include Co-Op. A mode where killing things doesn't have a reverse effect, are plenty of enemies around, and can show off your skills.
I like coop /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

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## THIS IS OFFICIALLY THE END OF MY MESSAGE! ##

Hellscrag
3rd Mar 2000, 04:58 PM
yeah coop & titans rock /~unreal/ubb/html/biggrin.gif

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Hellscrag, Unreal single player nut :) . In deathmatch look for me as [SkW]Deathwish of UK clan SkaarjWarriors. Email me hellscrag@lineone.net.
Check my website http://surf.to/scragsite for Unreal Walkthroughs and other cool stuff or my clan site http://surf.to/skaarjwarriors for my UT designing projects

StormHammer
4th Mar 2000, 12:44 AM
@Hellscrag

I didn't say I WANTED the creatures from Quake or any other game in Unreal 2. I just thought some of the creature designs in Unreal 1 could have been a lot better, and there could have been a bit more variety.

I LIKED the Skaarj AND the Titan, and the Sliths were good too. I also liked the insects coming at ya from all directions.

However, I don't want to see all of these creatures just rehashed and included in Unreal 2. I'd like to see a lot more creatures - especially 'passive' or 'predatory' creatures which can still pose a danger to the player.

Cammy, I agree it should be switchable between first and third person views - I just think there should be better animation of the player's character in third person than we saw in Unreal. Jedi Knight worked quite well in this regard.

Anyway, from what I've been reading in .plan files and interviews (and having seen some of the U2Ed screenshots where they are working on level design) it appears Unreal 2 will take place across a number of different planets. If this is the case, this could become a very special game (like JK).

I'd love to see different weapons for different locations (a bit like Daikatana - there are specific weapons for each time zone, and although you can carry over previous weapons, you'll eventually run out of ammo!). It also increases the scope for more variety, both in creature design and in the environments we'll be traversing.

I wonder, will there be a planet with 2G, or perhaps one with a thin atmosphere, requiring the player to wear a protective suit?

Just a thought. /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

Lastly, do you think that an Unreal 2 forum should be set up on this site? I know it's early days yet, but it would give an opportunity for people to focus on these issues, and perhaps exert some influence over how the game eventually turns out.

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'The enemy can't press a button if you disable his hand...Medic!' (Starship Troopers)

Hellscrag
4th Mar 2000, 05:26 AM
Multiple planets? Noooo, that would NOT be Unreal. I much prefer exploring one flowing world! I hope they don't wreck it like id did Quake II.

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Hellscrag, Unreal single player nut :) . In deathmatch look for me as [SkW]Deathwish of UK clan SkaarjWarriors. Email me hellscrag@lineone.net.
Check my website http://surf.to/scragsite for Unreal Walkthroughs and other cool stuff or my clan site http://surf.to/skaarjwarriors for my UT designing projects

foulogre
4th Mar 2000, 08:18 AM
First let me say that if Unreal 2 is anything like UT then it will rock. I hope it has more single player mode (comparing to UT) in a UT kind of format. There should be many types of games incorporated into it (eg. assault, DM, CTF [of something similar], domination [definetly!]) I liked the weapons from Unreal and UT, especially alt firing mode. Monsters could be improved a little and more interaction with allies and surroundings increased.
But all in all, Unreal and UT are great games and i hope U2 follows with the same brilliance

Hellscrag
4th Mar 2000, 04:00 PM
No no no, U2 is gonna be based on Unreal and following the storyline from Return to Na Pali. Not UT!

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Hellscrag, Unreal single player nut :) . In deathmatch look for me as [SkW]Deathwish of UK clan SkaarjWarriors. Email me hellscrag@lineone.net.
Check my website http://surf.to/scragsite for Unreal Walkthroughs and other cool stuff or my clan site http://surf.to/skaarjwarriors for my UT designing projects

Kid Chaos
5th Mar 2000, 01:24 PM
I think something in the lines of Crono Trigger would be cool. At lest the time travel aspect anyway. Let's face it, NaPali is an old planet with a "Nali Load" of history so it only seems natural to explore that angle. The different eras of Napali would be like different planets(what with all the various off world influences that have made the planet what it is today..um..tomorrow..). Anyway Unreal 1 hints at time travel in some places so if done right, that aspect could be a lot of fun (like multiple out comes based on causality). I've always enjoyed games that allow you to effect the over all game play and out come based on your actions and decisions. (What is life if not a series of decisions and outcomes?) And we can't forget about the music. The music sets the mood and really engulfs you into the games world. That's probably why they composed background music for UT's deathmatch environments.(something the Unreal communities home made DM maps never had.)

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The Storm of Glory reveals the Ultimate Truth.

StormHammer
1st Apr 2000, 01:24 AM
Serious Bumpage...

Any more wishes for Unreal 2?

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'The enemy can't press a button if you disable his hand...Medic!' (Starship Troopers)

StormHammer
1st Apr 2000, 01:25 AM
Serious Bumpage...

Any more wishes for Unreal 2?

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'The enemy can't press a button if you disable his hand...Medic!' (Starship Troopers)

Cammy
1st Apr 2000, 04:19 AM
Wouldn't want the game to take place on too many planets; it would just get confusing. Rather let's have an in-depth exploration of just one world -- the Nali world. Or at most just two more worlds, the world of the Skaarj and our world.

Come on, Hellscrag -- just a wee bit of magic, no? Such as an Amulet of Regeneration, or a Staff of Divine Wrath? /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif(I still love the idea of being appointed by the Nali gods to be the Savior of the Nali...)

Come to think of it... hey! A visit to the Home Plane of the Nali Gods ought to be truly UNREAL!! /~unreal/ubb/html/biggrin.gif

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Tonight. Hot, hot, hot.

Hellscrag
1st Apr 2000, 06:09 AM
I don't know about the Amulet of Regeneration. I have to admit though the Staff of Divine Wrath sound interesting! /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

Homeworld of the Nali gods? Well, if it mean more environments like Chizra - Nali Water God then I'm all in favour /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

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Hellscrag, Unreal single player nut :) . In deathmatch look for me as [SkW]Deathwish of UK clan SkaarjWarriors. Email me hellscrag@lineone.net.
Check my website http://surf.to/scragsite for Unreal Walkthroughs and other cool stuff or my clan site http://surf.to/skaarjwarriors for my UT designing projects

Da Wrecka
1st Apr 2000, 09:04 AM
My wishes for Unreal 2 are nice and simple; BIGGER GUNZ!!! Preferably ones with a nice wide area-effect. If you could get the Redeemer into U2 that would be TOTALLY UNREAL!!!!!!!

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The moonlight carries the message of love - the love of killing!

StormHammer
3rd Apr 2000, 05:11 PM
It would also be totally suicidal...I never could get to grips with that gun...

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'The enemy can't press a button if you disable his hand...Medic!' (Starship Troopers)

Wolf Blackstar
4th Apr 2000, 02:21 PM
Good points. All of you.

I don't think the Redeemer should be in U2. If they chooses to include something like it, it should be one of those weapons there just aren't that many of.


Staff of Divine Wrath...... hmmmm.... interesting.....

Unreal 2 over multiple planets?...... http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~unreal/ubb/html/icons/icon13.gif Why? because you lose all ties to the original, with its beautiful lands of the planet NaPali. It becomes to Unreal what Quake2 is to Quake1.

I'd say the Skaarj are OK as they are now. Some more varieties of both Skaarj and Nali would be nice, though.

I'd like to see the Nali doing more than just running around and getting shot - I think Nali rebels fighting a guerrilla action against the Skaarj would be cool. Especially if their base of operations was in a secret temple, and the player takes a role in helping them win a massive epic battle against the Skaarj.


And of course, more great music! I'm listening to the music from Sunspire right now - I think the music was really good in making the player feel there, as it boosted the immersion factor.

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-Wolf Blackstar

"A chainsaw! find some meat!"




[This message has been edited by Wolf Blackstar (edited 04-04-2000).]

Hellscrag
4th Apr 2000, 02:35 PM
There, I agree with ya /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

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Hellscrag, Unreal single player nut :) . In deathmatch look for me as [SkW]Deathwish of UK clan SkaarjWarriors. Email me hellscrag@lineone.net.
Check my website http://surf.to/scragsite for Unreal Walkthroughs and other cool stuff or my clan site http://surf.to/skaarjwarriors for my UT designing projects

boxerperson
10th Apr 2000, 01:27 PM
there is this totally kick *** weapon idea ive been dying to see in a game...I REALLY want to see it! we need a laser gun...no not the kind that shoots out a little laser blast and hurts people....the CUTTING kind...like a surgical laser....mabey they could have you find a nali medical center, and take a modified laser scalpal....and juice it up....then we could go and hold down the fire button, and it could just be held down...no ammo, but only be able to use it for so long...before it overheats....but man...imaging them implimenting somthing like the headshot thing for every body part! holding the laser and pass it through a skarj's legs, and they get sliced off...now that would rock! mabey have it only do damage if you sever a body part? this is just mind spewage, but you have to admit it would be cool!!

Ansible
10th Apr 2000, 06:02 PM
I agree with the 3rd person like in jedi knight, that 3rd person view was awesome, I got to where I had pinpoint acuracy across canyon oasis with a conc rifle using 3rd person.

Lithium
11th Apr 2000, 02:04 AM
Not that I'll pretend to know anything about Unreal 1, but here is my suggestion for U2.

Make an Assault-like level. For example, you get to a certain point in the game, and you have to successfully raid a base. But then, one enemy manages to escape and calls for back up, where then you have to defend the same base you just took. Sound good?

Lith

Hellscrag
11th Apr 2000, 02:01 PM
3rd person? Hmm, well maybe it should be an option but there are many people like myself that don't like 3rd person...

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Hellscrag, Unreal single player nut :) . In deathmatch look for me as [SkW]Deathwish of UK clan SkaarjWarriors. Email me hellscrag@lineone.net.
Check my website http://surf.to/scragsite for Unreal Walkthroughs and other cool stuff or my clan site http://surf.to/skaarjwarriors for my UT designing projects

Valiad
11th Apr 2000, 05:00 PM
Like me

Ansible
11th Apr 2000, 06:01 PM
I think in JK it switched betwen the views by hitting f1, and I agree, somethimes you need to use 1st person.

Vortex
13th Apr 2000, 08:35 AM
U got the thing about the monsters StormHammer. The Brutes shouldn't have turned up that early on in the game as it was too imbalanced. They had rocket launchers while u had stupid pistol thing and an even crappier enrgy weapon. OK, so we all know the weapons were crap in Unreal. Those tentacle things were just a pain in the @ss but easy to kill. I did like the Skaarj though. They better bring them back for U2 in some shape or form. Didn't like the Titans much. Perhaps it was their ability to pick up rocks from a smooth metal ground. BTW those HL monsters u mentioned were Gonarch, Gargantua and Tentacle respectively. If they had monsters the size of the the HL tentacle it would have rocked so much. I liked it at the start where the whole prison ship was falling apart as u tried to escape. The bit in Rrajigar mine was great where after turning off some forcefield, the corridor u were in suddenly had all it's lights black out and then these red emergency lightd came on and a Skaarj leapt out of nowhere at you! I shat myslef the first time. The Slith were freaky. They should put more levels in U2 like The Sunspire but cut out the indoor bit cos the outdoor areas had a real sense of scale I think. The fight at the end of the game was unimpressive cos the queen alien wasn't big enough. IT should have been something like I'm leaving now!

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a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair."

StormHammer
13th Apr 2000, 08:17 PM
Thanks, Vortex, and to everyone else who's kept this thread alive. Some really good ideas coming through, here, so I hope Legend has some eagle-eyed bods reading all this.

Can't wait for the official Unreal 2 website to go up this summer. Should be good.

Keep your eyes peeled...

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'The enemy can't press a button if you disable his hand...Medic!' (Starship Troopers)