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Snakeye
28th Jan 2000, 09:57 PM
First of all: I read the roadmap.
I know there are no weapons added for 3.0.

I just am interested why there are that many HK SMGs? (except for the reason they're good of course) Don't get me wrong, I love the HK as much as the M16 - together with the PSG my current favourites - but wouldn't one or two have been enough?

My second question concerns the dual weapons. Does any military or police unit use dual weapons (pistols)? If it was so, I never heard about it - as far as I know most military units prefer one pistol, because of the better accuracy, but I might be wrong with this..

My final question concern the M4/M16. I heard (and saw) about a double drum clip for the M4, with about 90 rounds capacity? Any chance of getting such a monster into infiltration? (I know it probably won't - just one of the mad ideas I have - 90 rounds sustained fire from a M4, wouldn't that be at least funny?)
Thanks to anyone who reads that,
INFILTRATION RULES!!
Snakeye

deathren
28th Jan 2000, 10:16 PM
http://www.securityarms.com/pics/beta.jpg

Snakeye, the drum magazine you're talking is a Beta C Magazine (I think it has a 100 Rd magazine) I beleive it can be used on the M4 and M16.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> To be, or not to be? That is the question!
[/quote]

My loyalty is to I N F I L T R A T I O N (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/)

New here? Then go and read the Roadmap (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/roadmap.htm)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"Even trusted friends are capable of betrayal"[/quote]
-James Bond, Goldeneye 007




[This message has been edited by deathren (edited 01-28-2000).]

28th Jan 2000, 10:31 PM
Yes, the Beta C-Mag is a 100-round drum and is adaptable to almost any .223 weapon so long as someone will build a feed tower for it. I've seen feed towers advertised for both HK53's and AC556's, albeit at around $200 a piece.

And no, I seriously doubt any respectable fighter would use two pistols except in an emergency. However, it's got that John Woo coolness factor to it and it's fun, and although Infiltration is supposed to be realistic and all if someone wants to use two pistols, I say let them. However accuracy should be decreased when using this method, and the option should exist to use only one for accuracy (for example, hitting the same weapon number switches between one pistol and two).

Gryphon/JTF2

INF_Neo
29th Jan 2000, 11:23 AM
It's not only John Woo, it's also Matrix feeling (well, we'll have Mini Uzis instead of Scorpions)

Snakeye
29th Jan 2000, 12:11 PM
Well, another question concerning the weapons:
Wouldn't a AKSU-74 be reffered to as heavy smg rather than assault rifle?
Right, they have 5.45mm rounds but only a very short barrel; besides the AKs ar not famous for their accuracy.
Given the size, I'd rather compare an AKSU to a HK-53 or a Colt Commando(or that much shorter recoil operated M16 whichs name I can't remember) than to a full scale assault rifle like a M16 or even a M4 Carbine or any other .223 AR.
Not that it would mather that much, just the accuracy of an weapon and the muzzle velocity and therefore the lethality and maximum range decrease with a shorter barrel. I'm asking myself if this will be reflected in the game?
An M4 has a (slightly) reduced max range and lethality compared to the M16A2..

By the way: It might be a funny feeling fireing two handguns; I wouldn't even think about fireing a M9 (yes I have used this one on a range..) with only one hand (I'm not the strongest man on earth..), but fireing one, not to mention two, SMGs like the mini Uzi with any accuracy at a range other than three meters sounds rather impossible to me. Looks like someone watched Terminator too often..

PS: Will the M2 Browning be introduced with 3.0 or a little bit earlier? I just would like the thought of having one of these at my base..

Snakeye

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I read the Roadmap!!

INF_Neo
29th Jan 2000, 01:00 PM
Hm, for the AKSU74 I can only give you a more or less unexact answer.
We've found a 74 version with 6.72mm ammo. I can't remember the exact name.

M2 will parently be there in V3

Snakeye
29th Jan 2000, 05:34 PM
I'm sorry ti disagree with you about the AKSU calibre, but the only calibres used on AK 74s seem to be the russian 5.45x39 and the NATO 5.56x45;(I couldn't believe this first, and anybody who doesn't believe my words is free to visit www.ak-47.net) (http://www.ak-47.net))
The older AK 47 use the 7.62x39 and some newer models even have the 7.62x51 NATO.
For the AKSU the only available calibre, as far as I am informed, is the 5.45x39. And for the 6.72mm; I never even heard about such a calibre, and I spent much time in my life reading about guns..

Whatever, thanks for that much attention and kindness to a newbie,

Snakeye

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YES, I read the Roadmap!!

INF_Neo
29th Jan 2000, 06:05 PM
DOH!
I meant 7.62!
But that rifle exists.
Go ask our experts:
Gryphon, Repairman_Jack or ShakKen

Catalyst
29th Jan 2000, 06:29 PM
Hehe, isn't this like the third time we've been over this? There is an AKSU-74 manufacturer (forgot the name) that produces 7.62 AK-74s...maybe Warren can help me out on this...he did a lot of research on it.

Catalyst
29th Jan 2000, 06:33 PM
Regarding dual weapons, we feel that the restrictions we impose will add a credible air to the fun-factor:

a) Aim will be worsened
b) The player will have to purchase two of the weapon
c) Reload times will be extended

Probably with these restrictions you won't be seeing too much of the dual weapon action on the battlefield, at least by the veteran players.

29th Jan 2000, 07:19 PM
Ok guys, here's the deal with the AK. The correct name for this short-barrelled AK is Krinkov, and it's designation is officially AKS-74U (or AKSU-74, I've heard it both ways). The 74 generally means it's chambered for 5.45x39.5mm, while a 47 means 7.62x39mm. As far as I know there is no AKS-47U per se actually in use, aside from those built from stripped receivers and parts kits in the United States and elsewhere.

Bulgarian parts sets have been coming into the States, minus receiver, for building Krinkovs in 5.45 and 7.62. The only difference between the two when built up, appearance-wise, is the shape (more specifically, curvature) of the magazine. 5.45 mags are less curved while 7.62 mags are more circular, due to the shapes of the different cartridges. The Inf team has decided to take on the 7.62 version in order to throw some variety into the caliber mix, thus modelling the correct magazine would be wise. I have an article on the Bulgarian 7.62x39mm Krinkov, complete with pictures, that I'll try to get scanned within the next few days so the Inf team has something to go by.

Gryphon/JTF2

INF_Neo
29th Jan 2000, 07:24 PM
May I introduce you to one of our experts?

Snakeye
29th Jan 2000, 07:25 PM
Sorry my fault.
After searching around a little in the web I also found evidence of a 7.62 version of the AKSU. Although no photos, I found an add for a 7.62mm AKSU barrel - don't think they sell them for fun..
Still I would think that 5.45 would be the better choice, since it's lighter and the mags carry more rounds - at least I think they do, but not sure. But after all that's your decision; you're doing the job, and hell you do it superb.

Snakeye

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YES, I read the Roadmap!!

Warren
29th Jan 2000, 07:40 PM
Ok, just for FYI, this is THE ONLY relative picture I could find. And since I left my Class III liscence in my other pants, I'm limited to resources that end in DOT COM. Anyway Gryphon, I would be VERY appreciative of any and all pics and text you may have regarding the 7.62 Krinkov weapons! Feel free to email them if you get a chance.. thanks-

http://www.sentrystudios.com/images/krinkov.jpg

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Warren
Project Coordinator
i n f i l t r a t i o n
http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration

Questions? Check out our Roadmap (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/roadmap.htm).
Then check out our FAQ (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/faq.htm).

[This message has been edited by Warren (edited 01-29-2000).]

Snakeye
29th Jan 2000, 07:46 PM
Yes, you're an expert!
I came to the same conclusion about the Bulgarian AKSUs. Still I would say that an AKSU is rather a terrorist weapon, since few special units would use it - most prefer western weapons like the HKs, and after all I wouldn't expect a terrorist having a rather seldom weapon.
As for the calibre variety I don't think that there's that much difference between 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 - some people even say that the 5.45 is more lethal due to it's higher muzzle velocity..

..but as I mentioned before:
YOU make this mod.

Another question I have concerns the Robar.
I read today, that the 5 round mag was detacheable. Is that true? And if yes, wouldn't it be better for the game to be able to replace the mag, instead of loading every single bullet?
Sorry that I pose that many questions, but I really am interested in INF and firearms..

Snakeye

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YES, I read the Roadmap!!

Warren
29th Jan 2000, 07:55 PM
You hit the nail on the head with the Robar. When we replace the old weapon models with the new ones, the box mag will be detachable, and if you want to load that +1 round in the chamber, it'll be manual.

We do have a terrorist class in our plans for Inf 3, plus the desire for a different calibur of weapon is why we went with the 7.62 AK variant.

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Warren
Project Coordinator
i n f i l t r a t i o n
http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration

Questions? Check out our Roadmap (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/roadmap.htm).
Then check out our FAQ (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/faq.htm).

Snakeye
29th Jan 2000, 08:19 PM
I think I finally got that with the AKSU. Still maybe you could add a AKM/AK-47 AFTER INF 3.0. The long version is much more widespread.
By the way:
Will you add many more weapons after 3.0?
I saw some messages asking for WWII weapons. Wouldn't think it was a too bad idea, since it would add some fascinating possibilities; of course only if they're not used together with modern weapons.
Another interesting era would be the '60s and '70s - especially the Vietnam War. What about some early M16s, Stoners, XM-177 etc..
Also some more LMGs like the M249 would be interesting.

Think I talk too much; you'll have enough to do to make INF 3.0 - guess it's better to start making suggestions later..

Where do you get those photos?????

Snakeye

29th Jan 2000, 10:32 PM
Snakeye brings up an interesting point. If you guys do a standard AK later on that will be two 7.62x39mm AK's, so you may want to consider doing the 5.45mm Krinkov if a full-size AK is in the works for later on.

And Warren, I'm not sure why that photo says the AKS-74U is 5.45mm and the "AKS-74S" is 7.62mm; there's no such thing as an AKS-74S. AKS-47U maybe, I think someone just screwed up when they made the pic.

Whatever model you guys end up doing though, please make it all colorful like the one in the below pic. I don't know why, but the bright orange mag and red/brown handguard and grip combinations look rel cool to me. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gryphon/JTF2

Repairman_Jack
29th Jan 2000, 10:43 PM
Nothing says random violence quite like an orange plastic magazine, hunh?

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SEZ
Jon
--an armed society is a
polite society-

ShakKen
30th Jan 2000, 12:40 AM
Well, i'm glad that got resolved before I got here^_^

The AKSU-74 has been often used by the Spetznaz(sp?). There's also a suppressed version which ii'm trying to get info on.

I'm already working on an AKMS assault rifle ^_^

INF_Neo
30th Jan 2000, 06:31 AM
hmmm, chocolate....

Spetznatz, I've been searching pictures of them since months. If you find any, please tell me where

Snakeye
30th Jan 2000, 02:37 PM
You work on an AKMS?
That's the AKM version with a folding stock, isn't it?
Would be great to have one of these in INF - they're legendary and much more colourful than the western ARs - except the SIG550 series, which have a nice green..
By the way, would it be possible to add a SIG550 Sniper in later(i.e. post 3.0) versions? A 5.56 sniper rifle would be a real difference to the PSG and the Robar.

Is it that difficult to make a model for a weapon? Maybe you could make a programm or so downloadable - that would give some of us the possibility to make our own weapons and send them to you..
Of course only if it IS NOT that difficult..
Maybe we'd get a set of WWII weapons this way - I own two Enfields a No5 'Jungle Carbine' and a No1Mk3 - with a proper programm I'd surely be able to make a model for them..
Enough maybes for the moment..

Snakeye

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YES, I read the Roadmap!!