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Chand
31st Mar 2000, 06:11 AM
Ok... I felt the need to split this from the older post so it can be discussed better. If you don't like it, please feel free to shoot me.

On Violence in games/movies/tv/books/etc...

It's SO easy to point and blame (specially in this 'sue happy' society of ours)...

People die from smoking related causes...let's sue the TobComps...it's much easier to do that than to educate about it.

Kids and children kill other kids and children at school... let's blame the media and the video games industry... it's much easier to do that than to educate our own kids.

The true signs of an ill society, IMO. This is not about blame...it's about responsibility. Parents not only have the right, they also have the responsibility to teach and raise their own kids in manners that ultimately lead to decent adult individuals.

When that fails, well... sorry to the parents out there but you FAILED in your responsibility. Don't blame the media...it's not the media's son, it's yours. Don't blame the gun companies...it's not the gun companies' daughter, it's yours.

Me, personally... I'm not a father but I will be someday (I'm already married). And if, by any chance, my son/daughter someday happens to go to his/her school, 45's blazing and causes a tragedy...I don't know... I would need a LOT OF BALLS to look up to the victim's parents and say 'it's the media's fault'.

It's the parent's responsibility to teach their children right from wrong...not the movies. And certainly not Tekken 2's.

However, since we're talking in the context of a free society, you also have the right to NOT teach and raise your children appropiately. You can watch tv instead of explaining what's right and wrong. You can go fishing/golfing/whatever instead of explaining why not to do drugs. Like I said, you have that right...and sadly, many parents choose to exercise that right.

But then, if you do, after something happens don't come finger-pointing happily, when all the fingers point to you and you alone.

On a more personal note, I've been playing games and watching all kinds of skit all my life. I'll be 25 in august and I've never been arrested nor I incurred in criminal activities nor I caused serious harm to other human being. And I'm sure this was because my parents taught me well on what's right and wrong...kept themselves well informed in the things I did and, what the hell, spanked me right whenever I was going out of line and deserved it.

Sadly, I know that a great number of children don't have and will not have the blessing that it's a caring and responsible parent.

In closing (this's been longer than I expected)... if this rant sounds like I'm biased in favor of the industry, it's not. Sorry if it seems that way. I'm just explaining my personal POVs on the situation. I've been playing 'violent' games and watching 'violent' movies since I can remember... but I just can't place myself on a pedestal and say 'nothing affects me, so this can't affect anybody'. It's not the case. If it didn't affect me it CAN affect somebody else...I know that if I play a Soldier of Fortune marathon I won't go in a kille frenzy... but I also know it can happen.

However, that's where the parents should step in... for example, if you know that your kid has a violent/irritable temper or he's a 'problem' child and you STILL don't know or care what he plays... well, who's wrong here... you or the game ?

And if you, as a parent, DON'T know that your kid is all that... well, how can you NOT know something as important as your own child's personality and behaviour and still call yourself a parent ? You are more than a progenitor, you're also a parent. It's time you start acting like one.

Thanks for reading my $0.02...I await your comments.

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This is your brain...
THIS IS YOUR BRAIN ON INF... (bold /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

[This message has been edited by Chand (edited 03-31-2000).]

Lance201
31st Mar 2000, 06:15 AM
One simple question:

How many children do YOU have??

LCPL TWENTY

Corin
31st Mar 2000, 08:56 PM
He already said he doesn't have any kids.

I wholeheartedly agree, Chand.
I don't even know if I can add amymore to that post.

Mr. T
31st Mar 2000, 09:49 PM
Well, I think Lance was just trying to say that everyone's an expert on how to raise kids, until they have kids of their own. Then you can pretty much flush your so-called expertise right down the toilet.

Not that I disagree with what Chand is trying to say. But each situation is different. Some of the best parents in the world still have kids grow up and do wrong. But I agree that I'd definately lean more towards blaming the parents than the media, or games. But it's really probably a lot of factors coming together, and you can't really pinpoint one cause. Hell, maybe some of it's biological for all we know. The human brain is too freakin complicated, and of all the things we've been able to accomplish in science, nobody has been able to figure out how the human brain really works.

Chand
1st Apr 2000, 02:39 AM
Well, no... I hardly consider myself an 'expert' in raising kids. But what I do know is how I'm going to raise mine and what I'm going to teach them...whenever that time comes.

I really, and that's only my personal opinion, don't think it takes an expert to at least implant in a kid's mind the simple notion that, i.e., killing other people is wrong. And also explain why it's wrong.

However, you don't raise a kids 2 hours a week, every week... it takes time and dedication. Educating a mind is a process that takes years (I'm of the ones who think that you never stop/should stop educating the mind)... but hey, if you can't devote time, dedication and your own experience to your children then why the hell you had them in the first place... that's just plain irresponsible.

Whenever the time comes for me to be a parent (hopefully later than sooner), I'm more than ready to, like I said, devote my time, experience and love to my kid. Even if that means neglecting any activities I might have...

And Lance, you don't have to be a weatherman to know where the wind is blowing from. Though I agree that each kid and each parent are different situations, there are some things you KNOW, even without having kids of your own.

You KNOW that if TV raises your children instead of you, that's wrong.
You KNOW that not being aware of what your children do or think is wrong.
You KNOW that if you're not there for your children, somebody else will. Sometimes with disastrous consequences. And that is also wrong.

I don't need to have a kid of my own to know all these. My own children will bring me their own characteristics and challenges, making that situation unique. But still, you know the rules. You know what to do. You know what you gotta teach and what you gotta enforce... not just leave your kids to whatever (media/games/etc...) and show no responsibility. That's also wrong.

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This is your brain...
THIS IS YOUR BRAIN ON INF... (bold /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

Mr. T
1st Apr 2000, 02:57 AM
Well said Chand. I hope you return to these words in the future, as they may provide you with the strength you need to get through the rough times that every parent goes through.

I like this discussion, we should conduct some more of them on other topics.

Waxx
3rd Apr 2000, 10:23 PM
Chand...I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR A PERSON TO SAY THAT FOR SO LONG! I COMPLETELY TOTALLY ABSOLUTELY 100% POSITIVELY AGREE WITH YOU! And I'm only 13 years old! I've played almost every FPS on the market, and have I gone and shot people? Have i done drugs? No! You are absolutely right that it is the parents responsibility and not Epic's if the kid goes and shoots someone. I think QAPete from Nalicity addressed this. He said something like "When my kids and I play UT together, they know it is just the QAPete character and not Daddy that they just killed." And it is the parent's responsibility to teach them just that-that it ISN'T a real person they are blowning away with a shock rifle, it's just a bunch of pixels made to look like one. Society is changing. The parents don't care anymore. I am lucky enough to have two loving parents that care for me and have taught me well. I can understand what is going on and what people think these days. And believe me, that ain't very pretty.

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Nazis suck.

Chand
4th Apr 2000, 07:40 AM
Thaks for your comments, Waxx...but I'm not the only one who owns these words and thoughts. I'd like to think that there are a lot of people all over that thinks that this train of thought is a possible solution to the problem.

And Mr.T is right when he said "I pity the foo who thinks there's only one cause !" (more or less /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)...

One brain could be a serial killer and the next one in the line a loving teacher... yet we still aren't able to pinpoint the cause of this. I hope that in the future we will.

As for your own example, Waxx, which I think is *very* similar to mine... you can't place yourself in a pedestal above the world.

The example "I've been doing X for a long time now and see ? Nothing happened !" can be very healthy and serves very well to prove that everything is not black or white, as an 'exception' to the rule.

But then, you mustn't allow yourself to fall into the false logic of the argument and think 'If X doesn't affect me, then it can't affect anybody'. It's clear that while everybody in this board can (if let) play INF for days and have a great, fun time... you also know that other individuals (perhaps worst educated, perhaps worst taught or perhaps just different at a genetic level...who knows) might play INF for half an hour and decide they want to cap everybody in the 'hood and their dogs.

If X doesn't affect you, great, it means that X won't affect EVERYBODY...

But it doesn't mean it CAN'T affect ANYBODY...

As with most things in life, it's just a matter of maintaining the right perspective on things.

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This is your brain...
THIS IS YOUR BRAIN ON INF... (bold /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)