the location of my sniper

[Lord_Bunker]

he's not behind the stump. stumps are a bad place to hide. [runway music] john, the sniper in the picture is sporting a full ghillie suit and a remington 700 if i remeber right. he's got the muzzle peaking out from under a gun cover. aimed towards the camera. He's also using proper ghillie technigue and used atleast 50% natural material[/runwaymusic]

here's the larger pic
http://pages.hotbot.com/und/sniper99/images/spotthesniper.jpg

look more towards the center of the screen, tween the 2 little thin trees in the for ground. there's a clear leafy place in the middle of that group of small trees. John's dug himself a small trench to lay in so that he dosn't creat a bulge and removed the extra dirt from the area, probably to a creek. then used his gillie and nautal vegitation to fill in the gaps and edges of the hole.

Can you spot the sniper?
http://members.aol.com/bunkvania/myhomepage/spotthesniper.jpg
Too Late!

[Lord_Bunker]

here's john in one of his ghillies

http://pages.hotbot.com/und/sniper99/images/ghillie.jpg

Can you spot the sniper?
http://members.aol.com/bunkvania/myhomepage/spotthesniper.jpg
Too Late!

[ShakKen]

great pic=)

http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/sig_images/shakinfil.jpg

[Lord_Bunker]

i had a hard time finding one where they were actually trying to hide. seems most people only want to post pics where you can actually see the guy. John certainly seems to know what he's doing. I've been working on my own ghillie suit. i've been mostly limited latly buy not being able to find a sutible netting material. i figure i'll have to wait till spring when the local wallyworld restocks their hammocks.

Can you spot the sniper?
http://members.aol.com/bunkvania/myhomepage/spotthesniper.jpg
Too Late!

[Styx_Surfer]

Why would you want a Ghillie-suit? For hunting? ;)

Handsome Boy Modeling School Graduate
http://echo1.homestead.com/files/styxanim2.gif
My homepage (http://www.styxgraphics.com)

[Lord_Bunker]

i've never seen a ghillie used by a hunter. i guess though it would give you a portable blind. ghillies are also used by paintball players on occasion as well as some wildlife photogs and snipers.

Can you spot the sniper?
http://members.aol.com/bunkvania/myhomepage/spotthesniper.jpg
Too Late!

[the real pacman]

I knew that, heh, nobody believed me.

<center>
<font face=verdana size=1>
<img src=http://www.planetunreal.com/redeemer/images/sig.gif>
<a href=mailto:pacman@planetunreal.com>Pacman</a>|<a href=http://www.planetunreal.com/redeemer>The Redeemer</a>
I write messeges on money, its my own form of social protest.
A letter printed on paper that no one will destroy.

[[Iceman]]

I've heard of people using ghille Suits to hunt deer, one guy got the deer to come within 5 Meters :eek: :eek: :eek: .

Couger58.

[One Shot ,One Kill ,No Mercy]

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/ssnround.gif

[Gryphon]

In many areas (certainly up here in Manitoba), it would be very illegal to hunt with a ghillie suit on. Anyone care to guess why?

http://members.home.net/unrealtournament/forumsig.jpg

[Zundfolge]

Ok,I painted what I think is the barrel of his rifle red.

izat it?
http://home.kscable.com/biles/spottedthesniper.jpg

BTW, how do you pronounce ghillie? Is it like smiley, or smile, or is it like billy or what?

http://home.kscable.com/biles/ZundSig4.gif

[ThunderChunky]

I laugh at those who wear ghillie suits while playing paintball. I've seen it more than once, but one instance stand out more than it should. I have a story to tell about that...

One guy was HARDCORE military (yet he still had to serve in the armed forces :rolleyes: ), and had made himself a ghille suit. It was a damn good ghillie suit, too. He planned on using it while playing paintball, and he seemed to inspire fear into those who didn't know better. He in fact laughed at my attire (dark, close fitting clothes), claiming that he would sneak up on me and shoot me.

Little did he realize that paintball fields are on the most part barren, and ghillie suits are more often than not useless. I tried to tell him that, but he refused to listen. Luckily he was on the other team.

Anyway, the game starts, I go up the tape like I usually do, shoot a few people when all of a sudden I hear the most foul languaged screaming coming from a position not to far from where I was. I cautiously approached, and found Mr. Uebersniper caught in some bushes. He was fighting with all of his might to get his now horribly mangled ghillie suit out of some brambles he thought would blend nicely with his suit. After watching him for a while, I just shot him. He called himself out, but proceeded to get shot by other players later on in the game as he could not get out, additionally pissing the ref off. Finally, he just curled up in the fetal position and waited for the game to end, where upon he pretty much destroyed his ghillie suit getting out of the brambles.

Moral of the story? Paintball isn't war, and you shouldn't try to play it like it is. Frankly, I see absolutely no need for a ghille suit in the game of paintball.

-------------------------------------------
Stupid People Offend Me.

"The most costly of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind" -H.L. Mencken

http://www.geocities.com/thunderchunky42/thunderchunky2.gif

[ShakKen]

funny, gillies tend to be deadly useful in airsoft.

http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/sig_images/shakinfil.jpg

[Angel Of Death]

Paintball's not that fun to me. The guns are too hard to work with since they don't have incredible range. Unless you have a bushmaster or something.

I would much rather have real guns with paint ammo. I know it's real, but you gotta be in the Marines or something like that.

It'd be fun to shoot someone with a 12.7mm paint ball goin at 2200 fps. ;)

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines

[Zundfolge]

Here's the stylish sniper in his Uptown ghillie suit (along with matching ghillie bus)

http://www.kodak.com/US/images/en/corp/features/artCars/photoGrassBus.jpg
Believe it or not, this guy's name is Gene Pool :p

http://home.kscable.com/biles/ZundSig4.gif

[Mojo.the.Red]

1) to the best of my knowledge (and I have spoken with many people, and heard them pronounce it the same way), it ryhmes with "mill-ee". the h after the g makes the g hard, so its not a "jilly" suit.

2) You can't hunt with a ghillie suit on in Manitoba because hunting regulations mandate that the hunter must be visible to all other hunters at all times. Same with ontario. I think its a federal thing, though I may be wrong. Aboriginal sustenance hunters are exempt from this rule if its part of their native tradition to blend into the background when hunting. (Much as Aboriginals are exempt from many laws)

3) As far as I know, its pointless wearing a ghillie suit to hunt because a) a deer will smell your pheromones and the gun oil, and b) horizon or horizontal vision (which all producers have, including deer -- that is, one eye on either side of the head -- as opposed to binocular vision of predators) are based on movement and not depth (horizon vision is unable to distinguish depth or speed) and since most producers are for the most part colour blind (as are most predators since this enhances night vision to an nth degree, important for survival) the deer would base its perceptions of a human intruder -- an unknown factor in a wilderness environment -- on smell and sound and movement, and not colour or camouflage. Thus whoever told you this ghillie suit story is full of horse sh'it.

http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif

[R-Force]

I guess your sniper is the guy in front of the big log ;)

I played a few times Paintball in a small forest near my home with a few friends... My pals tryied to ambush me, wearing military camos and hiding behind foliage... The two were hiding near the area we wanted to regroup before the game to make the teams and set the rules. Despite their good hiding spot i had no problem to spot them from a safe distance (i guess their technique was not good enough). They could hardly believe i had spotted them so easily.

The funny thing is later in the game i was "the hunted" and was using bushes as cover... I heard one of my pals comming so i stopped moving... I realised that my spot was one of the worst to hide, i was in a small clearing in plain daylight, wearing dark clothes and my trusty flack jacket. There was just a few bushes and trees around me and i was quite exposed... My puny gun could not hope to hit him from the distance he was, but i was in range for him... But the guy just passed 10 meters in front of me, not noticing me at all... Maybe the fact i was not moving was enough for him to not see me...

I learned that not every peoples have the same degree of observation, and from one another, they don't notice things the same way... Some need things to move to attract their attention, others can spot things when they are out of place, some other find thing because others are searching for them and other randomly spot things without any reasons... And a few are hopeless, they can't even spot a thing if you don't tell them it's there..

[Lord_Bunker]

around here it's mostly speedball which extremely limits it's useful ness. their pretty handy for scenario games though. the only downside is that if you get hit your out weather or not it breaks. the refs don't wanna check it.

I've seen hunters where chemical suits under them to hide their smell from the deer. don't know how well that works though.

i prefer to ghillie small stuff. ghillie is pronounced like chillie the soup. but with a g. i have a ghillie hopper. it's small and dosn't get cought. it also covers most of my gun and face when i shoot. it also keeps paint out of my bolt and sight making it extremely usefull. in paintball one of the most distintive things you see is a hopper

Can you spot the sniper?
http://members.aol.com/bunkvania/myhomepage/spotthesniper.jpg
Too Late!

[Gryphon]

Mojo is correct (and I'm kinda disappointed no one else tried guessing! :( ). You MUST wear blaze orange while hunting so as to be visible to other hunters. This makes perfect sense to me for not only the reason Mojo pointed out above (color blind animals won't notice your blaze orange), but because too many idiots go into the woods and simply shoot at anything that moves. All too often you hear the stories about hunters killing their buddies because they thought they were deer. It's one of the few "for your safety" laws that I agree with.

http://members.home.net/unrealtournament/forumsig.jpg

[Lord_Bunker]

to many people use hunting as an excuss to get liquered up.

Can you spot the sniper?
http://members.aol.com/bunkvania/myhomepage/spotthesniper.jpg
Too Late!

[Mojo.the.Red]

Yeah, the hunting law, I agree with completely. I also happen to agree with civilians not being allowed to have flash and sound suppressors. I believe in defending your home, but suppressing your gun cause you didn't wanna wake the missus when your house was getting burglarized is a stretch. People figure guns = noisy = somebody will call the cops, so its a nice incentive -- plus they have no real use for them. Those two "gunnish" laws (though they have no actually relation to firearms themselves) I happen to agree wholly with.

http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif

[[Iceman]]

In New Zealand You CAN buy Silencers (haha i said SILANCERS :D :D :p ) Leagly or you could before i dont know if you still can (This was in '94).

Couger58.

[One Shot ,One Kill ,No Mercy]

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/ssnround.gif

[Lord_Bunker]

however most people are stupid and don't wair ear protection. my roomate dosn't even beleive that shooting a rifle is harmful to your hearing. i've seen wimpy little suppressors that fit a 12gauge and make the blast more tolerable a little louder than a .22 at best. mostly their a waste of money.

also, the batf considers most paintball silencer's illegal. if it can be used on a gun weather it will work or not they don't want it. since most are made out of pvc and the co2 from a paintball gun venting will tear them apart i'd hate to see what will happen on a real rifle.
the only legal commersial paintball silencer i've seen was the BOA concealer but i've never found anywhere that sells them.

Can you spot the sniper?
http://members.aol.com/bunkvania/myhomepage/spotthesniper.jpg
Too Late!

[Gryphon]

So Mojo, you think that people using sound suppressors while hunting is a bad idea? Do you know what tinnitis is? Have you ever fired a gun of a significant caliber indoors and felt what happens to your ears? No, suppressors are a GOOD idea on ALL firearms. They save your hearing. Unfortunately the media and Hollywood have given them a negative stereotype by associating them with criminals and gangsters. You're fairly naive if you buy into it.

As for not having flash suppressors, WTF is up with that? Oh, it must be like those evil bayonet lugs that people can't have either (helps cut down on the drive-by bayonettings). :rolleyes:

http://members.home.net/unrealtournament/forumsig.jpg

[Mojo.the.Red]

That's what ear protection is for, Gryphon. Yeah, I know tinnitis and I know its causes and I know a constant ringing in your ears is extremely painful, but outdoors the sound has less to induce sympathetic vibrations in, so it dissipates faster, and indoors you really should be wearing ear protection -- its not like ear protection is that bulky anymore, either, simple ear plugs are quite effective nowadays. That's not to say that effectively reducing the decibels and flash of a gun are a bad thing, just beyond a certain point it is just... well... pointless.

Let's grant a little benefit of a doubt here -- guns are a great way to kill somebody. No hollywood stereotyping there. Its simple, you don't have to touch the person, all that. What stops it, more often than not, is with that simplicity comes an evidence trail. Brass. Ballistics. Paraffin proofing. And yes, flash and sound. Protecting your ears is one thing, granted. But do you know how easy it would be do give yourself enough time to clean up if you hid all traces of a gun from anybody outside the room? Enough time that it becomes a viable incentive to alot of people. You have to take the human factor into account when dealing with firearms, and unfortunately what the human factor comes down to is that most people are fairly stupid. They WILL use that as an incentive.

http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif

[Gryphon]

I see. So murders are being gotten away with in the United States, Finland, Switzerland, and all those other righteous countries where sound suppressors are legal for civilian use? Funny, I haven't heard anything in the media about that...

What ever happened to the "free for all society" you embrace so dearly, dependent on the condition that only when your actions interfere with someone else then you are punished? Communism and all, you know? You're slipping Mojo.

http://members.home.net/unrealtournament/forumsig.jpg

[Zundfolge]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ...I also happen to agree with civilians not being allowed to have flash and sound suppressors...plus they have no real use for them. [/quote]

See, I have a little problem with this logic. Just because you don't need something is no reason to make them illegal. You don't needa car with more then 50hp, you don't need a stereo more powerful then 25W, you don't need fast food, you don't need high carbon steel kitchen knives. All of those things can cause injury or death if misused, or used by criminals (ok, fast food is a stretch, but it's not healthy) but outlawing them is just stupid, and will do nothing to stop people from dying in car wrecks, or annoying people with their music or getting heart disease or stabbing each other..

Silencers/supressors are not illegal here in the US (not by federal law, in some places like Kansas they are) but even where they are legal, they are rarely if ever used in crime. And when they are, they're not the ones owned legally by Class III license holders (you have to have the same license for a silencer as a machine gun, only the silencer is classified as an "other" weapon and the transfer fee is only $5). For Fukcs sake, law abiding citizens are just that; law abiding (even if they own very powerful weapons) :rolleyes:

I don't know what the Canadian constitution says about gun rights (or if there is even one) but in the US we have a right to own firearms. And yeah, I'm one of those that would like to repeal the NFA (that's the law from 1934 that made machine guns illegal). I figure if you want an F16, and can afford one then fine, if you want an Abrams Tank and can afford one then fine, if you want a full auto MP5 then fine go buy one.
And don't give me that crap about chemical and nuclear weapons, they are not the same thing as small arms, artillery, or mechanized weaponry.

The second amendment is not about hunting rights or defending your home from criminals, it's there to be the final guarantor of all the other rights.

I'll quote Oleg Volk (if you get a chance, you should check out his page, one of the best put together gun-rights pages out there <A HREF="http://www.a-human-right.com/" TARGET="_blank">http://www.a-human-right.com/</A> )

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Some say that a modern standing army can easily wipe out any armed citizen. True enough. What is not mentioned is that the amount of resources and manpower needed to handle an actively resisting person are considerable. With few of the approximately six million Jews that perished in the WW2 fighting back, the clean-up was relatively simple. Contrast that with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan -- a country of only six million people total, often armed with nothing better than 1870s blackpowder Henry-Martinis. The Soviets could win local engagements but at a considerable cost, and any arms that they lost were fielded by the Afghanis in the next fight. [/quote]

http://home.kscable.com/biles/ZundSig4.gif

[Mojo.the.Red]

Canadian Charter of Rights says nothing about guns -- NOTHING. So pfft.

I won't compromise on this. The only viable use of a sound and flash suppressor is for stealth. I don't buy that hogwash about "ear protection" since ear plugs or ear covers are an equally useful solution. Stealth is only useful in sneaking up on another person (how many deer do you have to kill to feed yourself for that night) and thus it means you're encroaching on another person's right to privacy, and more likely than not, life without bodily harm from another without consent and life without death from another. No compromise. I won't budge, I won't argue.

http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif

[Gryphon]

OMFG! Mojo's given up! I never thought I'd see the day. :eek:

http://members.home.net/unrealtournament/forumsig.jpg

[I_ABuGa]

I know everyone wants to accessorize but you dont need a suppressor in addition to your gun for protection.

...

whut the heck are we arguing about??? I agree that civi's dont need suppressors but making suppressors illegal is kinda silly in some ways. I can think of a few legitimate (albeit weak) reasons why we should make em illegal tho. I know everyone wants to accessorize but you dont need a suppressor in addition to your gun for protection.

The average civi is not expected to use his firearm much? Besides practice where he uses head gear, why would he need a suppressor?

[R-Force]

When they did make the chart, it was to allow all citizen to have egual rights and freedom. Owning weapons was part of it... No other countries have this. All other contries made laws to prevent the working force to have enough power to overthrow their governement if they wanted or needed to... Kings and Emperor did in the past, now it's the wealthy and powerful...

Theses days corrupt governements (run by whoever have the "gold") want to remove all rights to the populace to complain about their fates or organise resistance of any kind. Disarming them is one, misinforming them is second (we are overloaded with junk informations and incomplete facts), making loopholes laws (laws that has escape routes for who know them well)is third...

This may seem conspiracy theories, but you don't have to look too far to confirm this..

[Mojo.the.Red]

Uh, I didn't give up. If you notice, I said I wouldn't COMPROMISE OR BUDGE. Ever.

You know I'm the last to buy into media hype or violate people's rights, so obviously if I see something wrong with this, there's gotta be something kinky about it.

http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif

[Zundfolge]

I believe that if a government doesn't restrict its peoples right to own military weapons that have absolutely no sporting or hunting value then that is a government that will not (or will be unable to) take away the peoples other rights.

The 2nd amendment of the US constitution is there so that people will be allowed to arm themselves so that if someday people in government start overstepping their bounds and taking our rights we can kill them and restore our freedoms (or die trying, I for one would rather die on my feet then live on my knees).

Let me quote one of the guys who wrote the constitution.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"
--Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy p. 20, S. Padover ed., 1939[/quote]

Now, Mojo, I understand that you are a Canadian and not an American, so you can support whatever you want to in your country. However I believe the idea behind what Mr. Jefferson is saying can be applied anywhere.

http://home.kscable.com/biles/ZundSig4.gif

[MiscMan]

The constitution is strikingly vague about the right to bear arms. It is now being interpreted as the "people" in general can own weapons. (btw, you can own an abrams, you just can't have a working cannon or gun on it). Though some would say that an uprising cannot happen, those are probably the same people who don't know that IT DOES HAPPEN. All the time. People who think that guns are only for sport are quite naive, why the hell would the constitution give the right to hunt written into it? Even at that time no one really needed to hunt, nor did they have proper hunting rifles(or my history is poorer than i believe it to be).

----

-MiscMan

Titanium Wars (http://www.planetunreal.com/titaniumwars/mainindex.html)

[Zundfolge]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The constitution is strikingly vague about the right to bear arms. [/quote]

I'm not following you here, I think it's rather specific.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Article II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. [/quote]

http://home.kscable.com/biles/ZundSig4.gif

[Angel Of Death]

I don't see the point in making only a fully-automatic machine gun illegal. I see machine guns online for sale but they're only in semi-automatic. This can still do damage. They had a Browning M2HB for sale online in semi-automatic fire only. What's to keep some psychopath from buying this gun, throwing a scope on it, and picking off people from his roof? I know licenses are required, but what if this man was a holder of this license? If they're going to make guns illegal, make any form of that gun illegal. A semi-automatic .50 caliber weapon is still dangerous as hell.

As for suppressors, I think that anyone should be able to own em. Mojo, if someone was burglurizing your home, why would you want earplugs? That would just give him the advantage. If you don't want to hurt your ears a silencer is neccessary for indoors. Earplugs would limit your hearing rather than help keep it.

http://www.navyseals.com/eaglebottom.jpg
Best of the Best

[Gryphon]

You see people, arguing with Mojo is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Mojo is too stubborn and set in his ways to understand that if you fire a 12 gauge shotgun at an intruder in your home, you'll more than likely blow out your eardrums and suffer permanent hearing loss. Or even a handgun for that matter like a 9mm. I've fired primed empty casings indoors (no bullet, no powder) and it was enough to make my ears ring. I shudder to think what it would be like to discharge a full-power .357 load in a narrow hallway.

Mojo is of the camp that only SOME things should be legal. Like cocaine and other (what are now) illegal drugs. Yet he figures that something that is designed to protect one of your most valuable senses should be illegal, simply because someone might use it improperly. He's obviously oblivious to the fact that suppressors are available over the counter in Finland, yet criminals don't go around assassinating people with them. Not to mention the obvious fact that the black market can provide those devices to people (read: criminals) who really want them. In fact, I know of TWO firearms for sale right now on the black market that are available with suppressors, an AR-7 takedown rifle with muzzle can for $350, and a Ruger 10/22 with integrally suppressed barrel for $450. And before you ask, NO I will NOT buy them for you or hook you up.

But then again I guess I'm just preaching to the choir here, as all you intelligent people can realize these simple facts and Mojo.The.Hypocrite is content to be ignorant of them. Fair enough.

http://members.home.net/unrealtournament/forumsig.jpg

[Mojo.the.Red]

I wouldn't take good old Gryphon's word on too much anymore though. Lately he's been literally displacing touches of dementia and schizophrenia. He believes that actual UN soldiers will come to his apartment and walk off with his rifles, and possibly pellet guns as well. This is because of the UN's gun control mandate, and if member countries don't agree, they'll be out. Gryphon claims that Canada will lose its seat on the security council if we don't comply.

Good thing Canada isn't on the security council anymore or else we'd really be in trouble.

Yet he manages to use his gold-star clout to try and convince people I'm the ignorant one.

Gryphon, how many points have you ceded in the past? None? Wow. You won't cede the point that because a gun requires a mechanical cycle in automatic to fire a new round, you could technically break down its ROF into Hertz. You won't cede the inviability of the RCMP seizing pellet guns (even after I used an example of paint ball guns as another equally inviable example). You seem to believe that cops and "UN jackbooted soldiers" will come to our houses and, without due cause, illegally seize our weapons, despite the fact that the Charter of Rights clearly states, in article 8, that "Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizure" Unreasonable, in case you didn't know, means unwarranted. Hence we have the "warrants". The "proof" that you offered me that our CoR would be shredded and re-written was a simple single-paragraph post that you wrote on a forum citing no sources whatsoever and wholly constituting of hearsay. The only thing you know is guns. You don't know legislature, you don't know diplomacy, you don't know political functions, you don't know legality. Period.

Yet you have the gall to call me the hypocrite and ignorant? Pig, pull the beam from thine own eye before you tell me to pull the splinter from mine.

And no, jack ass, I'm not saying if somebody breaks into your house you get the ear plugs first. A single gun shot will not result in you breaking your ear drums. Instant perforation of the ear drum only occurs at 160dB or more -- since ONLY the sonic boom of the gun is omnidirectional, and since a boom level is only measurable based on the mass of the projectile, and not any amount of propellant use, that's irrelevant. What IS relevant is that the actual sound of the bullet is directed forward, and AWAY from the shooter (unless the shooter is stupid enough to fire next to their ear) and thus it will not hit 160 dB's next to your ear. Ear damage results in C&R's at < 1*101^1 W/m2 in succession enough to create beat vibrations on your ear drums, causing, in effect, your ear drum to tear itself apart. I've fired many a shotgun and rifle on many a hunting trip, and the worst that happened is a slight numbness in my ear for the next day -- my hearing returned to normal within four hours every time. One shot, directed away from you, is NOT enough to damage your hearing or your eardrums permanently in respect to small arms. Artillery yes, but a small arm no. Period. Look up the physics if you want to verify it.

http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif

[Mojo.the.Red]

For an idea just how intense a sound it takes to perforate (and hence damage) your eardrum, take a normal conversation. Now multiply that sound instensity by 10000000000. You just made your ear bleed a little bit.

http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif

[Zundfolge]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> You seem to believe that cops and "UN jackbooted soldiers" will come to our houses and, without due cause, illegally seize our weapons, despite the fact that the Charter of Rights clearly states, in article 8, that "Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizure" [/quote]

A corrupt UN will ignore article 8, gun seizures are designed to weaken the individual and empower the government.

I believe that the ultimate goal of the UN is a single world government, and the only way they will achieve this goal is reduction of rights and freedoms to the citizenry.

One of the many abuses that I believe are coming if we don't reduce the power of the UN is "UN jackbooted soldiers" kicking our doors in and taking our rights by force.

You love to ridicule people you think are mindlessly buying propaganda, well Mojo I respectfully submit that you are swallowing UN propaganda in big chunks.

http://home.kscable.com/biles/ZundSig4.gif

[Mojo.the.Red]

Uh, a corrupt UN can't ignore article 8 because article 8 isn't their article, its the Canadian Charter of Rights article 8. It doesn't matter how dirty or corrupt the UN is (and believe me, it is one helluva corrupt organization -- like everything it starts off pure and gets strangled by its own ideals) but removing the rights of citizens of the United States and Canada, the two biggest players in Western freedom today (as much as I hate the states, its citizens at least believe in freedom -- and will recognize when its being removed) will never, EVER fly without blood spilling in the streets. EVER.

I don't SWALLOW UN propaganda because I've never SEEN UN propaganda. EVER. Though I do know its mandate, I do know the country's mandate, and I do understand diplomacy. If a f'ucking bureaucracy like the UN ever, EVER threatens this country, you can be bloody sure all 30M of us will know, and all 30M of us will be right f'ucking pissed. Even if not all of us believe in the right to own firearms, we will be pissed at a multinational crime syndicate like the UN stepping in and telling us what our laws can and cannot be. F'uck that, it will never, EVER happen. EVER.

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[Zundfolge]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Uh, a corrupt UN can't ignore article 8 because article 8 isn't their article, its the Canadian Charter of Rights article 8. [/quote]

That's kind of my point, once the UN has control of Canada and the US (which I believe is part of their goal) then you're puny laws will mean nothing to them and they will walk all over you.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I don't SWALLOW UN propaganda because I've never SEEN UN propaganda. EVER. ...If a f'ucking bureaucracy like the UN ever, EVER threatens this country, you can be bloody sure all 30M of us will know, and all 30M of us will be right f'ucking pissed. [/quote]

Frankly, I think the recent expansion of gun control in Canada is a direct result of pressure the UN has placed on your government. They are doing the same thing here but we have a constitution that expressly forbids gun control and many grass roots organizations fighting them (unfortunately I think we'll lose, especially if Algore gets the office).

Dude, get pissed!

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[Mojo.the.Red]

Uh-huh, but as a permanent member of the security council, the United States can veto anything that comes their way -- so it'll never fly. The pressure from the UN can only come from the permanent members of the security council, of which the United States is a member, of which they will never shred their constitution for the United Nations. You'll see a disbanding of the UN before you see that.

I suggest you guys actually get a sense of political and diplomatic mandates before saying "Well, you see, I believe..." 'cause you just end up looking stupid.

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[Zundfolge]

What makes you think there aren't members of the US government that would just love to toss our constitution out the window.

Al Gore is one of them, they are starting with the 2nd amendment, and the 4th amendment (that's the search and seizure one, being violated constantly by the so called "Drug War" and by property seizures by the Environmental Protection Agency).

I believe that many forms of "hate crimes" legistlation are starting an attack on the 1st amendment (because they start to regulate so-called "hate speech" which can be defined as pretty much anything that black or jewish liberals disagree with).

I no longer trust my government to do the right thing (this is why I think that in my lifetime we will see some sort of violent uprising in America) I'm surprised that you, Mojo, trust your government to do the right thing either.

I hope and pray everyday that you are right (but I don't believe you are) :(

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[Mojo.the.Red]

I trust my government to do the popular thing. (Its not always the right thing). In this country, as much as gun control MAY be popular, shredding our Charter of Rights is very, very unpopular.

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[jaunty]

i wish we had some sort of bill of rights.

as far as i know, we dont, Iceman, prove me wrong.

as for the whole UN thing, i'm with u zundy, i believe too, that the UN strives for a single world government, and thats a bad thing, a bad bad thing.

I would like to see, in my lifetime, an incredibly massive revolt in the US, i wanna see the red army, the australian SAS and the canadian army, all march on Washington DC, grab wotever the **** president you finally "elect" by the ball, and string him up to that washington monument. then burn it to the ground.

mojo was right a while back, with his free for all society, where anyone is free to do what they want, on the previso that they don't interfere with anyone elses well being. but of course, like all societies, it has rules, which need enforcing, and eventually the enforcers will be turned upon, just like theu're beginning to be now. so we're pretty much screwed with any government at all, because people dont like being told waht to do, by anyone.

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[Mojo.the.Red]

Well, Zundfolge is right in believing the UN strives for world government -- even I agreed the UN is a corrupt, dirty place. He's wrong, though, to believe it will succeed. Either there'll be a coup before it happens, or there'll be a coup because of it. But it won't happen.

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[[Iceman]]

Sorry Jaunty, As far as i know no bill of rights :( :( .
Oh an also Jaunty How do you feel about John Howard?I FU*KING HATE THE LITTLE BARST.ARD HE LOOKS LIKE A FU*KING Lepricorn.

Iceman.

[One Shot ,One Kill ,No Mercy]

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