I hope it's not the opinion of the whole INF team...

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R-Force

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** this is from Shakken

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Out limits are meticulously planned and precisely implemented to preserce the feel of modern warefare and 'realism'. So keep your 'subtle insinuations' to yourself.

Seeing as that 90% of Infiltration isn't even out the door yet, you're being very hypocritical as to being the 'authority' on realistic mods.

[/quote]

I hope this is not the impression i leave to the whole INF team. I try my best to suggest things in a correct manners and don't post crap or try to boss everyone around. I just have a "devil advocate" approach, giving pro and con to everything. I find that kind of jugement of my posts to be unfair (discarding everything i ever posted as trash) ... I am an idealistic bastard, a guy with unconventionnal views, but nothing else

[This message was edited by R-Force on Dec 20, 2000 at 19:50.]
 

the real pacman

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This may not go for the whole INF team or maybe none of them at all...

Shut the **** up.

<center>
<font face=verdana size=1>
<img src=http://www.planetunreal.com/redeemer/images/sig.gif>
<a href=mailto:pacman@planetunreal.com>Pacman</a>|<a href=http://www.planetunreal.com/redeemer>The Redeemer</a>
You forgive and forget.
But you will never forget you forgave and forgot.
 

R-Force

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Why?

I don't know what is holding me to from answering a train load of trash to this kind of despotic answer... Well, if this kind of comment become the norm, i don't see why i would keep carring about inf... Then again i'll wait for true answers...
 

Lord_Bunker

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shakken can get abit rude some times. there's been times when i wanted to find out where he lived so i could trake him down and pellt him with dead skunk. then i realized i couldn't afford the air fair. that and they wouldn't let me bring the skunks on the plane.

Can you spot the sniper?
spotthesniper.jpg

Too Late!
 

R-Force

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Too bad i can't find it either ;). I just wonder why in every mod i got interested to i always stumble on someone who half read my post, make some really dump assumtions about what i try to say and then try to nuke everything i tryied to do...

Seem they are too numberous for me to avoid...
 

ShakKen

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Jan 11, 2000
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I speak for myself and only myself. I can't tolerate it when I slave hundreds of hours thinking up a feature, planning how it may be implemented, it's practical purposes, it's doability and then it's contribution to gamplay, before pitching it to Warren and the team for approval, and then having to put up with someone who for his own damned reason wants the complete opposite on a whim, posts it, takes a kindly put 'no' and still comes back trying to persuade a majority of people to demand what you want by surreptitiously making suggestions via your polls and constant repeat statements. And when that method of insurgency doesn't work, does that stop you? No, you go ahead and critize not the project, but the TEAM as 'not having a clear view on the subject'.

Indeed.

And if you're trying to pull something new by placing the team, or subsequently me in the spotlight in order to make us/me lose face, you have another thing coming.

That's one of my perspectives on you. Albeit the paranoid one, but it's long been my buisness to gauge people's actions. So watch your step R-Force.

shakinfil.jpg
 

Goat Fucker

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Ahh, pull youre self together, the team allways gets testy when a release is clouse to completion, their probably spending more and more houers working on it as they can see it taking shape, so their bound to be tired and iritable.

When i start smelling a release in the near distance, i allways send them a kind thought and make sure not to step on their toes.

Take a clouser look at Shakkens post, u can actualy see the sleep deprivation, heres betting he had just spend a heluvalota time working on Inf, read youre post and misunderstood it.

The text media as an elusive thing, it easy to missjudge a freindly intention if youre in a bad mood.

gfsigil.jpg
 

I_ABuGa

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heheh, the in your face malaysian-chinese attitude. Too bad there isnt a cantonese translation for the posts else it'll sound much better. Making an "educated" post in cantonese is really funny to read or hear.
 

Bad.Mojo

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You see, that's where you're wrong laddy. I have steadily been the one who's presented the flip side of the coin, the unconventional attitude, the in-your-face Devil's Advocacy. I could proceed to point out why every and all feature(s) in Infiltration will be doomed to fail miserably both based on scientific (hard numbers) and artistic (human trait) facts. I can then proceed to turn around and disprove everything I said. If somebody makes a list of the cons, I sit and make a list of the pros. Or vice versa. Whatever. When your "unconventional attitude" comes off as attempting to cram your cranium into your anus while simoultaneously fiddling with your crotch, you can understand why people perceive you as a jackoff with his head up his ass. I've been real buddy-buddy with the Inf team. Got Gryph's phone number on my hard drive here, Bastard'O's mailed me a few times back in the day saying he loved my post. Hell, Shak flew into a God-damn tizzy when my old site (now Pacman's) went down. And I think I've, at some point or another, told off just about everybody on the Inf team. So why does it work for me and not for a walking cess pile like yourself? Well, 1: I don't hold pathetic grudges. I understand that I can't agree with all the people all the time, and I'm not afraid to vocalize myself in a disagreement. My friends argue with me, that doesn't mean I hate their guts, it just means we disagreed. I certainly don't repeatedly reinforce the point by trying (and failing miserably) to make them look stupid 2: Funny. Funny is the key. You want to sound intelligent? Sound witty. Acting like a mewling kitten over your fragile, shattered ego trip is moronic. Crack wise and save face instead. Its a lot less ignoble and makes you seem much more likeable.

Frankly, when you make a mod, you can pick the features. I'm sure you'll love it when some snot-nosed prepubescent kid starts repeatedly telling you that an air pressure grappling hook launcher in your mod will make it hyper-super realistic (cause he saw it once in a movie that looked pretty real) while sitting around in his father's Vietnam fatigues, masturbating to the January 1988 Sears Underwear Catalogue.

bmj.gif
 

R-Force

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I wonder where the misunderstanding come from?

As far as i know, i never wanted to trash everything the INF team was working on. I did support some "less realistic" things, but i never wanted to turn the game into a fantasy game. I just don't agree with mixing "by the book" protocol as realism. I just want a slightly less rigid concept...

You should know if you read every post i made i don't want the "traditionnal" deathmatch to make it's way into the game, so i won't support anything that would turn the mod into a "run around and shoot everything that move". I may look like toward it at time but it's not what i want, as in the next post that is too much like it i will go against it. Some people in the forum understood what i was trying, other just dismissed me without understanding what i was doing. There is no black or white attitude, i'm in the grey area.

[This message was edited by R-Force on Dec 21, 2000 at 10:58.]
 

R-Force

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BTW Shakken, you just exagerated ONE post i made about the possibility of humans. I never intended you to put more than average human capability into the game. I was just trying to defend my "hip shooting" position as really possible and not that hard to do, so in game it should not be like impossible to get a good shot from hip if the player train hard enough to do it... If you read some other post i made, i don't even mention what i said in THAT post anywhere else. The thread in wich you came to trash me had nothing do do with breaking the current work of the INF team..
 

R-Force

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Also...

There are quite a few peoples in the forum that don't take into account all the posts i made IN FAVOR of Inf. It's not because i disagree on a few things that i am against Inf. Hey i even got into other board to defend INF or it's realism. That is why i think the summary of my work made by Shakken and supported by a few of his buds is VERY unfair.
 

R-Force

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Mojo.the.Bad : Yeah, you are right, i did argue about thing that i should have given up (or did give up since). Also to bring up Shakken's position like i did was more or less a mistake, i was tempted a few time to just erase it. But now it's too late. I just hope i will fix a few things with it, not make it worst. I must admit that the way i posted it was a bit whinny on the side, it's just it hurt me bad when i try hard not to offend peoples then i end with flaming thrash i don't deserve... Then again i could have waited a bit more and it may just have been forgotten or just fixed it on it's own.

It's just hard at time to post things on a Forum... Anyway it's the last time i do this kind of thread...
 

ShakKen

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What do you define as 'by the book realism'?

There is no such thing per se. Realism in games is already there. It's waiting to be used. You either use it, or neglect it.

After that, what has to be considered is HOW one uses it. And in our 'book', that's as far as it can be implemented without compromising gameplay. For that we are VERY selective.

I enjoy contructive debates, I really do. But what I do not find entertaining is people suddenly grasping at threads telling me how the human body can achieve amazing things such as one's ability to drive at stupidly reckless speeds down narrow roads, or how one's friend can twirl a pencil around his finger just for the sole fact of adding meat onto his otherwise skeletal composition.

Going on a forced march 30 kilometers with full combat gear and a rifle in one's arms before having to fight the enemy is a far cry from pcking up a paintball gun, jacking in a can of C02 and splatting away from the hip. It's hard enought to hit anything with the iron sights when you're that tired, let alone cowboy shooting.

I've gone though your other posts as well, from running inertia to flashlight woes and so on.

Think of this, if you're running, and you want to stop, don't you plan where you want to stop and aim so that you stop there? whether you slow down via momentum or you slam your body against a wall. Now with what you suggest, the game fills in the momentum for you. And what happens is suddenly where you would normally make yourself stop in real life suddenly drifts by as you cannot make the presise move and step there. Next day the messageboards are deluged with posts of 'I overshot the box I was intending to use as cover an got shot/fell of a cliff/etc. YOU CAN'T CONTROL THE FUNCTIONS OF THE HUMAN BODY WITH SUCH PRIMITIVE DEVICES AS A KEYBOARD AND MOUSE. You can only make the controls streamlined for the task at hand and as responsive as can be allowed. Which is what we've done.

You can't tape a United States issue L tube flashlight to an assault rifle with as little trouble as you might like to believe. And in the field, it's standard practice to attach the red infrared filter, which cut's into it's usefulness up close.

Now, these are things I take into account albeit with due deliberation and consideration. Yet I do not encroach on your views unless I feel them counter-productive or offensive. Quite often I've had to reserve my statements on a subject as not to offend someone.

But to say '-the team does not have a clear view on the subject'. Well in my book that's declaring oneself an authority in the going ons of this project's development although you obviously know less than you'd like to believe.

One of the things that bites me is someone pretending to know something when he knows nothing. At times, this statement places me in the spotlight of hypocrisy, but often, I know enough to make a reasonable hypothosis on most subjects.

You are not as unnasuming as you pretend to be right now. That much is abundantly clear. You probably think that I'm an arrogant and egotistical bastard right about this moment. But I'm no more so than the next man.

And no less.

So no sir. I will forget that statement, nor will I not be distracted from it. To me, such critism is 'unfair' in itself. Akin to announcing to the world that an achitect designing his 20th bulding 'doesn't know what he's doing' as he sketches a new innotive design that you haven't seen before and know nothing about. It's slander.

Malicious intent or not, that's what It says to us.

We will implement the features of infiltration is a fashion best as possible with respect to the realism and content of the product, as well as the players of it. They are deserving of no less than our best effort.

shakinfil.jpg
 

R-Force

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I think i realise now what spawned all this...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
the team does not have a clear view on the subject
[/quote]

My own mistake, i did not mean it as "they don't know what they are doing". I just wanted to say "they don't tell us much what they really think"...

[This message was edited by R-Force on Dec 21, 2000 at 13:10.]

[This message was edited by R-Force on Dec 21, 2000 at 16:16.]
 

R-Force

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I don't think i will post much in the near future...

It's a very stupid mistake i made... I just wonder how many others i commited... I just feel like deleting everything right now... Nah, just stopping to post for a while may be enough...

It just took me too long...

Better stop typing... :(
 

Lord_Bunker

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don't feel too bad, i'm sure if you look though the forum you can find something stupid and a poor mistake that just about everybody has made.

Can you spot the sniper?
spotthesniper.jpg

Too Late!
 

R-Force

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Thanks Lord Bunker :). Yeah, i do feel bad about it. I barely believe i made such a stupid mistake without noticing it right away. I just destroyed everything i was saying (or said) just with a poorly worded sentence.

I just hate when that happen because the mistake will follow me for quite a while. And there is not much i can do about it...
 

I_ABuGa

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dont worry about it R-Force, it happens to everyone at least once. :) Just try to think your post over a bit before posting. If you dont make yourself clear then go slowly, dont let it tick you off. I think I've been flamed 3 times in the past, mostly coz I didnt get my message across or just posted something too damned stupid. :D