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HanD_of_DarKNesS
25th Nov 2000, 10:49 AM
Has anyone ever had a bot shoot through some glass to kill them?

I have never seen this happen. It seems that bots don't realize that they can shoot through glass to kill someone, or they think glass is solid.

I stood in both windows in Cuban Dawn (facinmg the exit to the underground tunnels) to test my theory, and every bot walked by thinking I wasn't even there. Then I shot out the glass and picked them off at my leisure. Of course, once the glass is destroyed, their fully aware of your presence, and the fact they can shoot you. This may be something to look into.

------------------------------
"In the shadows of
death; I lurk. I am the
Darkness that
consumes you all."

bastard_o
25th Nov 2000, 01:17 PM
Sadly because you have to have the breaking glass as a mover, and a mover must be a solid rather than a sheet or plane the bots can't see/detect you on the only side...

May make up for the fact that they can see in the dark, human players can't...

Bastard'O

-Mayhem-
25th Nov 2000, 01:42 PM
oh, and they also know when you are faking your death. They don't fall for it for one instant.

http://unreal.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?s=10009422&a=ga&ul=948093892

Evil_Joe
25th Nov 2000, 03:14 PM
I've had bots shoot through glass, but 99% of the time I can just sit there and stair at them. Like Bastard'o said its basically a UT thing. The few times they have shot through glass I haven't be close enough to get a good look at what the exact circumstances where. But it was a bot inside firing at a bot outside. The only thing I can think of is that I leave a 1 unit space between each of my edges of my windows and the window "frame" so maybe the bot was just at the right angle to see through that little slit. Its not that noticeable but if you know to look for it you will see it [the 1 unit space].

bastard_o
25th Nov 2000, 05:06 PM
I have been thinking about this since the message started and I think I have come up with a solution, well my little test level works so I expect it should work in a real level.

I stated above that movers must be solid, that was rubbish, I knew at the time of writing that there must be a reason for the mover to be solid... So as to be able to be touched, you can't touch a plane/sheet because it has no depth.

So to be able to touch/shot the glass it must have been a solid thing, being solid the bots can't see thru it.

Anyway after thinking... I have come up with a better way of doing windows, well obviously for me anyway.

The glass I was able to make from a sheet (non-solid), made that a mover, stick it in place and set all the same properties as you would, but the mover can never be touched or shot because it is non-solid is just like a ghost, you pass straight thru it :)..

So to detect a player jumping thru the glass or shoting it I had to place an array of Any_Prox triggers, the reason for the array is so thar they are not triggered by a shot or player prox that just happens to break the triggers collision radius from the side, so I had to have a row lots of height but only a little width.

Add a the breaking glass effect and set up all the events and tags and...

The window works as it should BUT also the bots can see you thru the glass as well... Perfect...

Thanks for making me think about it again.. :)

Bastard'O

HanD_of_DarKNesS
25th Nov 2000, 06:00 PM
So Bastard'O, can I expect to see this effect in your next round of maps/upgraded maps?

------------------------------
"In the shadows of
death; I lurk. I am the
Darkness that
consumes you all."

Evil_Joe
25th Nov 2000, 06:11 PM
I didn't think you could make sheets into windows. Mind if I take a look at that test level. I wouldn't mind implenting those types of windows in Village. If you don't mind just email me the thing at jstoffa@helicon.net

bastard_o
25th Nov 2000, 06:28 PM
Yes I will do my glass this way in future, if we prove that this method works satisfactory...

I have the test level ready for Evil_Joe to make sure I am not talking thru my .... :)

Pop on over to the mapping section EJ I put a link plus some images over there...

Hummm not sure I will replace the glass in the two CubanDawn levels, there is one hell of a lot of glass in that there... :(

But I was never really happy with the bot pathing in CD so I may do the glass at the same time as those damn bots...

Bastard'O

deathren
25th Nov 2000, 08:40 PM
any one played rise of the triad? in that game, if you just WALK into glass, itll stay glass. if you run into it, it would break. mabye have glass on ceilings... miss the ledge, fall through the glass, be cut to ribbons...


"Something about the battle Excites people's emotions."

-Lady Une, Gundam Wing

http://unreal.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?s=10009422&a=ga&ul=169092982

HanD_of_DarKNesS
25th Nov 2000, 09:16 PM
Yeah, I like the idea of of glass that doesn't break when you walk into it, but can be shot out or be ran through. Would it be easily doable within UT (Bastard'O, I'm looking at you ;) )

Bastard'O:
While I'm at it, I DLed your test map to see how it works. I assume just the left window has your new idea implemented, as it is the only one the bots noticed me through (and subsequently shot me through). If that's the case, you seem to have hit the jackpot, and in record time! :D You Da Man!

------------------------------
"In the shadows of
death; I lurk. I am the
Darkness that
consumes you all."

Evil_Joe
26th Nov 2000, 07:48 AM
Thanks Bastard'O that is a smooth trick. I will be implementing that in all my levels that make use of glass windows.

RAzOR
26th Nov 2000, 12:06 PM
Yeah that would be really cool...
Imagine this: you are playing one of the house assault levels, you are inside, a grenade bounces around the corner, you run towards a window and throw yourself out/is thrown out by the blast as the grenade explodes behind you. Whoa.

RazoR :D

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http://wastelandhalflife.com/images/smileys/badass.gif

bastard_o
26th Nov 2000, 12:20 PM
To make bot aware (AI seethru) glass which can ALSO be broken depending on how hard to bump it I expect would be impossible.

The problem NOW having made the glass from something that you can't touch or detect that it had been bumped, the touch from a projectile or player is done by filling the volume of the hole which is the window by Proxmity triggers.

So I think we could either have bot/player see-thru glass that works properly or as we had it before... before it was the actual glass which detected being touched because it was solid but see-thru but only for human players.

I will have a quite word with Beppo to see if he can give me any pointers as to how to detect the strength of a collision.

Oh yes DarkNess, Which window within the glasstest level depended on which team you are currently set :)... If Red the right window, if blue the left...

Bastard'O

Hannibal
26th Nov 2000, 01:19 PM
...and yet again Bastard'O shows his sheer mapping brilliance. I only wish he coded the AI for Infiltration bots...

bastard_o
26th Nov 2000, 02:22 PM
Having the mover as a sheet we should save 5 polys per window... :)

Thats gotta help somewhere...

Maybe add some more polys as a cool looking frame !

Bastard'O

Evil_Joe
26th Nov 2000, 02:48 PM
Yeah tell me about it! That helps me out alot on sides of buildings that have 6 or 7 windows I mean that's 35 polies I'm saving which is ALOT if you think about it.

BTW just ask Neo if you want to sneak a peak of DM-INF-Village. I'd like you to look at that and offer up some suggestions if you could.

Map and the world maps with you.

bastard_o
26th Nov 2000, 02:52 PM
Thanks Hannibal for your kind o.t.t comments, but sadly I am not that clever, I guess I have a little experience with the editor now after two years of trial_an_error :).

Regarding the programming... yep I do do the programming thing, thats my real life job, but sadly all these Object Oriented class structured Java, C++ like event and state driver langauges can be tricky for an old timer to get their head around.

Beppo is the man, young, intelligent, straight on in to the OOP way of doing stuff.

My head sadly is still partly in the mid 80's with top_down coding techniques, I have been retraining myself since 1992, but they say it is difficult to teach old dogs new tricks...

I will stick to what I like doing, unless absolutely necessary, but even then I believe learning Uscript 100% would still take me a few months...

Bastard'O