Bots should feel fear too :)

R-Force · Dec 2, 2000

I did play a few deathmatch with a load of bots and noticed something missig in the bots behavior. .. Fear. When i play inf, i usually take a very cautious approach and attempt to not get shot at. And at time, when i get suprised by a bot comming from nowhere (usually because he just respawned

),i get a bit jumpy and start shooting, usually missing a few shot before one connect. I don't think they ever get jumpy.

At another time, i turn a corner and see a bot not too far... The bot notice me and i jump back behind cover and i try to flank the bot (because i know i might be in a bad position to kill the bot safely) from another side. You can guess anybot would shoot first, no matter what weapon you point at it, and never care too much about it's own safety or for a better way to do the job. But i did see them dodge, wich is a cool move btw...

And the last, when i go to the aim mode, i don't always get a perfect shot. Sometime my shot are hurried and fail to connect, especially if i'm in the middle of a fight and try to run to safety. bots don't seem to loose "concentration" from being shot at...

In a word, bots could benifit from a bit of moral based reaction and loss of performance under pressure (not due to injuries or stamina), much like real player do. Not that it would be always the best for them, but it would add a bit more humanity to the bots :

Goat Fucker · Dec 2, 2000

Its been disgused before, and its definetly a cool sugestion, but how do u make it work in practice???

It all stands or falls with the capabilities of the Uengine.

All hail the PRF!

Zundfolge · Dec 2, 2000

I think it's do-able.

Just make the bots skill and accuracy levels plummet for a second or so when bullets hit or explosions happen real close to them.
That and make them desire to run away from those
bullets and explosions and take cover.

I think that would replicate what happens to humans.

I also think that the bots are way to calm when a buddy goes down. When one of my team gets hit and drops, it makes me want to take cover.

Remember the bots still think they are playing UT.

Goat Fucker · Dec 2, 2000

The take cover part is the hard one, bots dont see geometry like we do, they see ai paths.

So mayby a cover actor placed by the mapper could do it?!?!

All hail the PRF!

R-Force · Dec 2, 2000

How hard could it be...

Back in the time of Duke Nukem 3d, i did edit the AI code of the monsters... It was a really basic AI but i had managed to do a few cool things with it for me and my friends

...

But the way i see it in INF, i can only guess, but maybe it could be done by making the bot make some assesment... I don't know if there is any line of code in ut for a bot to find cover, but i think the bots could have some random reactions according to some parameters... If the bot can know what the players or other bot are using as weapons (when they can see of course), they could have scripted reactions... If they get attacked by someone with a knife, they could back off and shoot... If it's a grenade, charge the bastard gun blasing (same for the grenade launcher as the bombs fail to blow at short range)... Depend on what the UT code can do...

R-Force · Dec 2, 2000

I like the idea of a bot getting a temporary drop of performance when shot or explosions are near them (or on them

)... But i guess this could be coded for the players too : When shot are real close to the player, the player could see it's gun make a quick reactionnal move like a person who see death from too close and get jumpy... Better yet, see it on the model : the model could make small evasive moves (without actually moving) like we do when something harmfull get too close to us and we want to avoid it... But as for the bot, they DO know when shot are nearby so the extra code should not be hard to implement... I just wonder if they can make the difference between a grenade or a bullets though...

What inf would get : Suppressive fire effect ! :

R-Force · Dec 2, 2000

Speaking of reactionnal effects...

This could be nice if someone getting shot at and missed the first time would get the benifit and ill effect of it... Ex: he get shot in the leg, he drop to the floor (temporarily), or he get hit near the head, you see the guy crouch a bit or move it's head to the side, making it harder for the next bullets to connect on his head...

But i guess it may be too much, but would be a nice touch

.

HanD_of_DarKNesS · Dec 2, 2000

R-Force: Three posts in a row, you must be on a roll!

I think the reaction adjustments to the bots when shots or explosions come too near to them is a great idea. Bots are too gung-ho. They play like UT bots (though in 2.82, less so). They need to be more like real people. They don't value their lives, which is bad in a team based MOD, as every member of the team is a resource.

As for player reactions, I say leave it up to the actual player to decide if they value their life or not. I don't really like the game taking over stuff like that. I'm the character, and will often react as you describe, but if I don't I don't want to be forced to.

For you, the end is near.

R-Force · Dec 3, 2000

Yeah, you are right, only bots really need this... But if we could throw of ballance another player without actually kill him?... Something like making the other player missfire or fall over a ledge by shooting close to them or by pushing them (like ramming them). At least ramming them to make them fall would be a nice addition (quite realistic

).

I_ABuGa · Dec 3, 2000

good idea

but bots AI is the second hardest thing after netcode, just so you know. I too know some Uscript and it is do-able, but I'm not yet experienced enuf to make it happen. As it is, if you want it, help the team by doing it. Maybe you'd get on the team too.

Kain · Dec 3, 2000

we will never be able to make bots that think like humans - fear is an impossibility, and that cover thing while a good idea may just mess around with the bot difficulty even more. The more 'features' you add, the more chances there are that you'll break something.

DredDamo · Dec 3, 2000

Kain, you sound like a wuss. That's what this is all about, experimentation, and making the mod the best that it can possibly be. It's easy to say "It can't be done"...
The idea of suppressing fire is an excellent one - a drop in accuracy and a desire to simply "run away" would be enough (not too far though, say 2 seconds or something). And in 2.82 I frequently notice bots hiding behind something and poking their gun out to blow my head off - so the concept of cover seems to be implemented. Just a matter of time, I guess. And yeah, R-Force, why don't you give the code a shot yourself

Damodred

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<A HREF="http://www.damodred.net" TARGET="_blank">www.damodred.net</A>

R-Force · Dec 3, 2000

I did

. The Ai setting in the bot configuration can do wonder...

Cataath · Dec 3, 2000

It seems that all that is needed is to make the bots just have an initial defensive reaction when they come under fire. If you remember in Unreal, the Skaarj did a great job of leaping behind boxes every time you took a shot at them.

While gunfire is quicker and movement slower than Unreal, perhaps some kind of random script can come into play where when you shoot at the bots they either drop prone, start running, or if their skill is high, kneel down and return fire.

And I agree that the bots accuracy is a bit too high, and turning the settings down in the menu gives you the absurdity of having a bot 20ft away who can't hit you with a shotgun. It would be great if the bots accuracy could increase exponentially where the first couple of shots are long, and excessive shots get tighter. But I have a feeling that high be harder to do that it sounds.

Kain · Dec 3, 2000

I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool if the INF team tried, but as has been said AI is the hardest thing to code and remember how much you all whinged when grenade code was introduced in 2.81?

All I want from my bots is a good fight, and believe me they provide a bloody realistic fight now. I've had them halt behind a corner as I shoot the wall, then two charge out, my teammate gets shot in the neck, one of them gets blown into the wall by my robar, then I get gunned down. Just like SPR. They play awesomely.

DeathAid · Dec 3, 2000

Bot Fear

Ok the way I see this, it isn't that hard to add bot fear to INF. While I know this is over simplistic, it could be refined into something usable. Add a variable to the bot's AI and call it moral and another that stands for the moral the the bot instills in others. Then assign values to gun fire, explosions, and death. Out going fire and death raises moral, while in coming fire and death decreasing moral and there by increases "fear".

This commement is now to the Team, I know the above is overly simplistic, I code for my major, but it still seams like it might be do able for 3.0.

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R-Force · Dec 3, 2000

I guess there is a lot already in the UT's code... We just have to dig it out

. Unreal had real impressive AI, and lots of it is included in UT, if not all... They are just unused...

JonnyBoy · Dec 3, 2000

well i personally think the bots should have no fear, like me

did you guys ever watch dirty hairy? you know the part where the guys are robbing a store or soemthing and hairy shoves down a hot dog and casually walks out with a 44 in hand? then he just blasts all of the guys. thats what i do with the desert eagle.

I_ABuGa · Dec 4, 2000

DeathAid hit the nail. That been whut I've been thinking about too. You play much Warhammer, DeathAid?

Anywho, it gets a lot more complicated going into UT's AI. Its doable I admit, but very difficult to get right. As Kain noted, look whut happened to 281.

rantecki · Dec 4, 2000

This stuff is already under development

Have you guys seen the PlannerBot yet? It completely replaces the UT Bot AI with a planning-engine and incorporates mood (bravery and fear).

Completely replacing the Bot AI is a big job (it took us 6 months), but we're creating a new set of base classes which can be easily extended to provide new behaviours.

It's still in primitive stages and it doesn't work with Infiltration (yet). A test version has been released.

You can check it out on the PlannerBot Website

Bots should feel fear too :)

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