why was depthcharge's post closed?

Personally i cant see anything constructive in that post, its ok that he likes 75 better thats his opinion, and hes intiteled to it.
But that does not give him any right to force that opinion opon us, and if he disides to whine about it....well thats still his right, but that doesent meen we have to like it, or endorse it, thats ouer right.
And hey, if he likes 75 better, he can play it, its not going to disapeer, no their wont be meny people playing it online, but nor is their alot of people playing doom online, and i still take a game or two of it from time to time

Its been said before, and it'll be said again, INF is not for everyone, some will like it, some wont, thats just how it is.


Changed name from Goat ****er.

Well, in my opinion, Depthcharge's thread was closed because all he really said was "Infiltration 2.8 sucks! Infiltration 2.75 was way better." The only specifics he went into were to state that "the models, skins, and sounds suck too." Besides, if it was left open, all it would've done is incite a flame war.

As to why Gryphon posted those images for comparison, it really is a matter of taste. I, personally, prefer the Infiltration models and skins. They look gritty and real as oppossed to Counter-Strike's, which look too shiny and cartoon-ish. Below is an example of the two which I think shows this the most (I know, technically they're not the same weapon, but they're close enough to make no difference)...

Counter-Strike MP5 Navy


Infiltration MP5/40A3


Actual MP5/40A3


Look closely at the Counter-Strike model and you'll see that it really isn't all that detailed. The model is actually fairly primitive. Regardless, like Gryphon said, you have to judge for youself.

-Keiichi


http://www.geocities.com/morisato_81/

[This message was edited by Keiichi on Dec 04, 2000 at 03:22.]

Here's some more...

Counter-Strike SIG SG 552 Commando


Infiltration SIG SG 551-SWAT


Actual SIG SG 551-SWAT


Counter-Strike AK-47


Infiltration AKMSU


Actual AK-47


Again, judge for youself.

-Keiichi


http://www.geocities.com/morisato_81/

CS models

yeah. and they dont have that swimming verticies bug.

But the anims are sooo much better in INF -
Take the shotgun reload for example - in CS he holds the whole gun from the end with one hand whilst sticking rounds in as if they are coming out of his chest wheras in INF he holds the gun in a much more balanced fashion and slots the shells in in a much more convincing way. He even puts the first shell in the top when the gun is completely empty.
If you ask me, Holding a whole shotgun (he even does it with the AWP) pointing out with one hand is not on.

Anyhow, at the end of the say, graphics aside, INF kicks the sh'it out of CS.

I think if any models in a game are going to be high poly, they should be the vweps. After all, there's only one on the screen at the time, and its the first thing you notice.

**** **** off

HeresJohnny: We were comparing against the real MP5. The CS models appear to be nicer to look at coz its got bright highlights for all the metallic parts and all the guns seem to have been polished with Kit Car Wax or something. They ARE good, no doubt, but INF is going for "Realistic". Real weapons do not have very shiny surfaces all over.

Plastic Fork: No need sarcasm, doesnt help.

People have the right to their opinions and preferences. DeapthChrage however offered no constructive critique, no suggestions to make it better - more realistic, nor offered reasons why he didnt like them short of "they sux". His post is what we call Trolling here on the net. Barging in here and screaming incoherently doesnt help you much.

Please remember that INF's goal is to create a Realistic experience for its fans. Not another CS, if you want CS for UT then go play TacOps. TacOps is kewl if you have to know.

Umm...

HeresJohnny:
The ridges, and horizontal slots that are on the real SG 551 are on the INF model. You may not be able to see them as they are dark, and I know that PC gamma is alot darker than the gamma settings on my Mac, but believe me, they're there.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> People may not like CS, but the CS models are done by very talented professionals some of the very best in the world, whereas inf models are done by UT locals.[/quote]

Pardon my ignorance, but aren't the models in CS done by the CS team, or do they contract the models out? If it's done by the CS team, who'd to say they're more professional than the INF team. And if they're done by professional contractors, that's odd, because most professional modellers works for photo-realism (ie: very high poly counts). Game models have to be kept to very low poly counts, and thus take more work to make look good.

Keiichi:
I reccommend that we all stay away from posting unfair model comparisons between mods. I much prefer the models in INF, but comparing an in-engine pic from CS of the AK to a 3D render of the INF AKMSU is grossly biased. We should compare apples to apples, and thus refrain from doing comparisons with anything other than in-engine images.

Keiichi, I don't mean to pick on you specifically, as you're not the first to do this, but it just gives ammo for others to use against us.


For you, the end is near.

Ummm, =DarKNesS=, the Counter-Strike AK-47 is not in-game. Each of those comparison images were taken from inside their respective renderers. Where did I ever say "Look, Infiltration's models are soooooo much better! Counter-Strike sucks!"? I simply said that I prefer Infiltration's models and skins because I think they look more realistic.

-Keiichi


http://www.geocities.com/morisato_81/

The CS models were created by Gooseman. (A HL local.) The Inf models are created by Warren. (A UT local) Both lead their respective teams teams.


Buddy_Pickle
RealMaps Co-Founder / Web Guy

Infiltration Webmaster / PR Man

www.planetunreal.com/realmaps/

You can't really post pictures like that Keiichi cause those are two different Sigs, two different AKs, and two different MP5s. If you want to compare post the Desert Eagle, cause that's the only weapon that both mods share (that is the only weapon that is finished).

Also, none of you seemed to mention one big difference in the guns. CS ejects shells to the left, where as INF ejects them to the right... which is the correct way. It's almost like a right-handed guy is using a left-handed weapon.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines

The Desert Eagle isn't the same either. Counter-Strike uses a Desert Eagle .50 Action Express. Infiltration uses a Desert Eagle .357 Magnum. The truth is, there are very few shared weapons between Counter-Strike and Infiltration (although, most Counter-Strike fans would have you believe that INF stole all their weapons from CS). The only weapon that comes to mind is the Benelli M3 Super 90, which I've posted below. The weapons I compared are aethstetically close enough that it makes very little, if any, difference.

Counter-Strike Benelli M3 Super 90


Infiltration Benelli M3 Super 90


Actual Benelli M3 Super 90


-Keiichi


http://www.geocities.com/morisato_81/

I never understood why people held CS models in so high regards, they never inpresed me, still dont.
Hell, even before i had realy good models to compare them to, i dident think much of them.

Their blocky and just plain rong IMNSHO.

But i'll give them this: Their better than the original HL models.


Changed name from Goat ****er.

CS != INF for ever

Grrr i hate this "war" between CS and INF.
They are 2 different games !

So forget to compare !

INF must follow only one way: The way of the perfection to reach the title of the most realist military simulation.

Playing CS could certainly give a lot of pleasure. But for me and a lot of people here my pleasure is obtain by the realism of the game. I see INF not like a game, but a SIMULATOR !

So 2 different game, 2 different pleasure to play. We cannot compare.

The only thing to say is INF should be better each time the version number grow ! (I know INF team is working hard to do that for our pleasure!)


{Just REALITY. Other things are unnecessary}

Sorry Keiichi, as I said I didn't mean to pick on you. I thought that the AKMSU looked to good to be in-game, but the render for the CS AK looked like it was right out of the game, that's why I made the comment.

Now I've never played CS (due to the fact that Sierra cancelled their Mac port of HL when it was 75% done: the idiots! ) But I have played HL on a PC, and wasn't that impressed with the graphics. The fact that CS and INF are based on completely different game engines is enough for me to disregard any comparisons between them; not to mention the completely different game premises (CS=C/CT while INF=Military). They appeal to different markets, and thus there is no reason why they can't co-exist

For gods sake, there are more comparisons to be made between UT and Q3 than there are between INF and CS (and though I've never played CS, I know enough about it as I sell it at the store where I work). So enough of this Sh*it!


For you, the end is near.

Hmmm...

Ok, Am I the only one that is wondering why the Inf AKMSU pic has a wood clip??? at least in that pic.

<img src="http://www.bulwark2000.com/images/danger10.jpg" width="225" height="125">

Mmmm... Wood

Actually the wood clip IS in the game as well. I'm not exactly sure what the deal with it is, but I like the look of it. It enhances the feel and look of an AK.


For you, the end is near.

The real AKMSU has a wooden (wood-colored plastic, actually) magazine. Here's a picture...



-Keiichi


http://www.geocities.com/morisato_81/

geez HeresJohnny, you just countered yourself:

<h>
People may not like CS, but the CS models are done by very talented professionals some of the very best in the world, whereas inf models are done by UT locals.
<h>
<h>
also gooseman didn't do all the models, a lot of them were in fact subcontracted out to the community, which is of course the largest
<h>

Gooseman has not noted any contributions from the community except for maps, sounds and textures. Gooseman (the renowned Minh Le) is the project leader, programmer, modeler and whutnot. He is one machine of a worker who probably spends a hell of a lot of time on CS. Not sure if he has a day job or a life at this time but sure as heck he chugs out new versions faster than any mod development team out there - by himself, just about.

While I dont give CS all that much kudos, I definitely respect and admire Minh Le. I'm quite an unbiased person in respect to comparing mods and I think that CS and INF should be thought of as seperate game-TYPES. The popularity of either mod depends on the gamers. I do sincerely believe that CS will not be dethroned any time soon - even by INF. CS is a heck of a lot faster and mindless (relatively speaking) and thus fun to a wider range of people.

Relatively fewer people will enjoy the features that makes INF.