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View Full Version : Weapon Jamming?


Derek
4th Feb 2000, 06:58 PM
I have never seen this done in any mod or game.
What I'm thinking is that every weapon would have the basic 1% or .5% jamming probability to start of with, then, for example, sustained auto-fire would cause that percentage to go up for the duration of the burst, semi fire would have no added penalty, and burst could be somewhere in between.

Also, some weapons could be initially more prone to it to begin with, like the m249, while some could be less prone to it to begin with, like the bolt action sniper rifles.

Why have this included? Basically to add that random element that is always present in real combat. It would be a very nice addition to any fire-fight to have everyone gunning it out and suddenly have the some of people going nuts on full auto have their mp5s jam up and have to use their handguns instead.

Also, this would actually add incentive to use semi and burst fire, I wouldn't fill bodies with lead with full auto like I do now
if I knew that there was a greater possiblity of jamming.

To "un-jam", you could press the use key, and your weapon would go down for whatever time, and you could clear the obstruction. Again, there would be precentages in play here. Maybe you couldn't unjam and you have to play with another weapon untill you pick up a "Fresh" one. (Maybe the option could be added to be able to drop the jammed one, and have someone else pick up the useless weapon)


Now, for this to actually work, the chance of such a thing happening would have to be in the "no so far away from never" category. Excessive jamming would not be fun.

I don't see how the coding for this could be much of a problem, and as far as animations go, not a problem either, the gun would just stop shooting in the event of a jam, and during the "unjam", the gun could drop out of sight.


Well, there's my meaty post of the day...

INF_Neo
4th Feb 2000, 07:06 PM
I don't like the jam idea.
Imagine the situation: you're a member of let's say the SAS and you will raid the iranian embassy in 5 minutes.
Don't you think you'll keep your gun clean? Jamming only happens when the gun has been in the mud for some time.
MP5s never jam. They've got a closed bolt.

As always, correct me if I'm wrong with the mud-story

But guns from going-in-kill-going-out units never jam.

Derek
4th Feb 2000, 07:13 PM
Alright then, make the mp5 have a .05 probability to jam.

I think guns can jam when they haven't been through mud. Lets get some of those weapon experts to set us straight.

Also, as a last resort, you could turn off jamming completely as a server side option.

I want jamming, yes I do, yes I do.

la la la la

P.S. are the weapons going to be able to shoot underwater in 3.0? any penalty for wet weapons? (there's a reason for the condom+M-16 pair-up).

INF_Neo
4th Feb 2000, 07:18 PM
I think the bullets are too much slowed down underwater. That should make it impossible to shoot. That's why there are guns like the HK P11. That's an ugly thing. Imagine a 6-drum pistol in the 90s. Ugly and expensive. If you want to reload it, you have to send it to the factory.

But that's a good point. Underwater shooting. If I'm right, I'd disable that.

Evil_Joe
4th Feb 2000, 07:20 PM
Basically I have to agree with Neo on this one. We've had the same discussion over at the SF board. Jamming only really occurs with excessive use. And lets face it infiltration games (like any other game) don't go on for days (although alot of us play them for days straight *G*). Most of the time when a weapon jams its cause of carbon build up... it could also occur from a "double" feed which the m-16 is prone to... it all depends on how well you pack your mags. The old A-1's where supposedly a real bitch. And I remeber back in basic having two double feeds almost in a row out on the range during qualifictaion day. That was due to the old and overused magazines we had and the two or thee guys who where on ammo detail that day who really didn't care how well they where packed. Also a jam could theroitically occur even if the gun is properbly maintained however the percentage chance is so small you could probably play the game for the rest of your life and have it never happen... 5% seems a little to high for me.... if it was 5% then after every 20th shot you should (statistically speaking that is) come up with a jam... now how realistic is that? none too. Even if it was 1% then after every 99th shot you'd have a jam... that's only a couple of clips... that isn't very realistic either! Not with well maintained and good quality weapons.

well that was just my too cents. Rock on!

INF_Neo
4th Feb 2000, 07:23 PM
So no jamming!

Wolfn2it
4th Feb 2000, 07:29 PM
Hey just to let you guys know mud, dust, and heavy rain (water) can cause jamming. Ive used M16A2s in dry, dusty weather and it does tend to jam after a couple hours use-thats why there is such things as field cleaning to keep it working. jamming during the game is a bad concept, imagine winning a game cause the other guys guns all jammed?!! thats not a win thats pure luck. underwater shooting should only be allowed with weapons that were designed for it. Locked bolt has little to do with the jamming cause dust can get in the magezines and that will cause it to jam. why do you think they tap the mag before loading? it knocks the rounds into a row (that wont cause jamming/misfeed) and knocks dust out too (half ass anyway)

INF_Neo
4th Feb 2000, 07:32 PM
Oh, didn't know that!

But the fact remains: no jamming for INF

INF_Neo
4th Feb 2000, 07:39 PM
BTW: I like learning new things (as long as they interest me)

Evil_Joe
5th Feb 2000, 12:46 AM
Packing the mags like that helps a little but still if the mags are old and suck its no cure all. Alot of guys do it out of habit, its also sort of a supersitition. Our drill sergeants laughed their asses off when we use to do it. But yeah enough of the boring walks down memory lane... by the way I went to basic at Fort Sill Ok... Charlie 1/40th was my battery and I'm currently in the 300th Chemical Company just in case there are any prior services on this forum.

ShakKen
5th Feb 2000, 01:43 AM
Weapon jamming is not as fun as it sounds. it wastes time to code and never feels right. I've been experimenting with the idea since quake.

And NO it's not a nice addition. its a fad that would outlive itself.

Wolfn2it
5th Feb 2000, 01:47 AM
That is stuff i learned during exercises "combat skills training" but yes if the mag suck anyway theres no cure for you-youre in a jam. But i still dont think weapon jamming is cool it sucks "for real"

Corin
5th Feb 2000, 03:37 AM
Of course it sucks, but so does reloading! I don't think you guys should just say "No jamming" just like that. Think about it, I mean, it does really happen no matter how little. It's a good idea, you just have to weigh it against how much realism you want in this game.

For instance, you have reloading, yet you can use items like health packs(in 2.7) *while* you are shooting the crap out of someone. Also the fact that that you can't really patch someone up and make them healthier, it just makes them waste away alot slower.

You could add needles with PCP though, (joke guys, don't kill me). Anyways you already know that the game isn't perfectly realistic and it never will be, too hard and it would keep alot of people from playing it(on shot one kill).

Soooo, just think about it, I for one like the idea, just a little more realism to help it along. You could always make it an option like FF(min. .01% chance - max. 1% chance).

ShakKen
5th Feb 2000, 04:08 AM
you dont seem to appreciate how many types of jams there are. there are misfires, hangfires, misfeeds, mechanical failures, magazine failures, nosedives, overheats, stress failures, clogs, stoppages, breaks etc.

Each produces various results, some can be cleared and most can't. I ussually agree that realism should be amongst the top 3 priorities. But the trouble is simply not worth it.

Catalyst
5th Feb 2000, 04:51 AM
I'd have to say no on this one. As ShakKen has said, the extreme improbability does not warrant the time it would take to code it- granted it isn't too hard to code. The big factor is it is just plain annoying as hell /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif Plus we'd probably start getting all kinds of "bug" reports from it /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif

INF_Neo
5th Feb 2000, 05:23 AM
lol

ShakKen
5th Feb 2000, 12:22 PM
Did I mention duds? I 'fired' a round yesterday that had no primer.

Corin
6th Feb 2000, 12:05 AM
Yea but nobody said you had to do 'em all. I'm just saying you think about it, you could pick the most common and experiment or not.

I'm not the one making it, just trying to control your body and mind to invent my brainchild! Muahahahahahaha!

Hodag
6th Feb 2000, 12:22 AM
That isn't even mentioning, stovepipes, torn brass, buckles or any other extraction problem/

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Adam C.
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Happiness is a warm AMR...

Sir_Brizz
6th Feb 2000, 12:36 AM
Even if anyone wasted their bloody time writing the code for jamming, and had all the stupid percentages worked out, it would suck. You don't want to get jammed! You would kill someone because their gun jammed. L-A-M-E! Plus, the jam rate on anything BESIDES an automatic gun would have to be like .0000000000001% and the jam rate on Automatics .00001% Then, knowing that nobody constantly fires their gun for more than a few seconds, you would have to reduce the percentage every time. Really, an Automatic would have a jam rate of about that of a burst fire gun. I'm telling you, it's really lame.

6th Feb 2000, 04:38 AM
it's just not worth the effort for something that would rarely occur, and when it did, would just piss the hell outa you.
Lost

6th Feb 2000, 04:38 AM
it's just not worth the effort for something that would rarely occur, and when it did, would just piss the hell outa you.
Lost

Corin
7th Feb 2000, 03:07 AM
Yes Brizz, it's extremely lame to add realistic effects, I'm sorry, I don't know what I was thinking. Maybe I should retire to playing Diablo, where everyhting is in a wonderful storybook land. Then I can suggest that Blizzard should make the Bow shoot faster and everyone will cheer. Hurray! Sean is a genius!

Catalyst
7th Feb 2000, 04:46 AM
Corin: we're not saying it isn't real, we're just saying it's a bit too much work for something that would probably end up annoying more people that would enjoy it for its realism. We'll just assume all weapons are properly cleaned and maintained /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif However, we may consider implementing it for weapons that are prone to jamming if the weapon is used in an improper way (say, full auto for extended periods of time)

Hodag
7th Feb 2000, 01:04 PM
If jamming got implemented I'd petition for a Model 19...

------------------
Adam C.
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Happiness is a warm AMR...

RegularX
7th Feb 2000, 01:58 PM
I vote no for jamming. Counterstrike had it one some of their weapons, mainly as a bug I think. It sounds great on paper, but once you start getting new players, the moaning will commence.

Added features like that need to be balanced somehow in gameplay. Throwing in random things that just annoy people are probably not a real good idea, even if it is realistic. Maybe if certain classes had better weapon handling/cleaning or something...

Warren
7th Feb 2000, 04:11 PM
There won't be attributes to classes that makes them better at something- only the variables in the loadout (weapon load, weight, bulk, etc) will effect your gameplay differently than someone else.

Continuing on the jam arguement, what about water? We could probably detect how far into water you are, so if you 'keep your gun above water' you have no problems, but if you dive down into the stuff, you do have problems... but then what about the rest of your inventory? should all your weapons you're carring be waterlogged? or just your current? Some parts of reality we just CAN'T do because it's not possible- which makes other parts that we CAN do less enjoyable. We can't make random weapons have random problems so the player is more worried about getting a lemon then staying alive..

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INF_Neo
7th Feb 2000, 04:19 PM
Ah, I think it'd be the best if we just make it impossible to shoot underwater. Jamming should not occur from being underwater.

A propos water:
right now the player can dive about 1 minute long.
That's quite long. Should be shortened

INF_Neo
7th Feb 2000, 04:36 PM
-> Jamming is too much trouble. It takes away the fun when playing. Newbies will think it's a bug, experts will hate it because winning will be dependant on luck, more or less

Corin
7th Feb 2000, 10:01 PM
Ok, you all have good points, and you are probably right, I, in fact think its a good idea, but only as a server controlled option.

I also like the idea about assuming that the guns are all cleaned and maintained properly, considering they are new and all. What about the guns dead people drop though? Just a thought.

LeTerroristi
13th Feb 2000, 06:07 AM
NO weapon jamming please /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
i think that this is going a bit of too far...

Toysrme
13th Feb 2000, 09:03 PM
no jamming dumb idea. besides that's jsut all the moe code they gotta write

underwater?
hmm i like the if you gun's above the water idea

serp had that and i loved killing bots that accidently fell in heh=)