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View Full Version : Is there going to be an M-14 weapon?


proclone1
29th Jan 2000, 07:26 PM
Hello, I was wondering if the infiltration team had any plans to include an M-14. It's a great weapon with 20 round magazine, semi or full auto options, not to mention a crazily powerful round (7.62) (In vietnam it could cut down 8 inch diameter trees in a couple shots). Not only was it extremely accurate and powerful, but it was the Force Recon weapon of choice. (And don't go trying to say the m16 or a car15 was, because I talk frequently with a former force recon vet)

Snakeye
29th Jan 2000, 07:41 PM
Before anyone else tells you:
read the roadmap!
Any newbie should - I was a newbie and I did.
If you do this, you'll find out, that up tp INF 3.0 the weapon list is finished.
Maybe they'll include it later - I would also like to see one; the M14 is a hell of a weapon..

Snakeye

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YES, I read the Roadmap!!

Serial Killer
29th Jan 2000, 08:17 PM
Lol, Snakeye..

ShakKen
29th Jan 2000, 11:43 PM
I LOVE the M-14! It handles like a shotgun. IMO, it's tons better than the G3A3 or the L1A1.

Pity it's so long. Someone should make a bullbup FAL!

INF_Neo
30th Jan 2000, 05:27 AM
hm, I don't like it.

MrTicky
30th Jan 2000, 05:32 AM
Neo no like? But Neo should like! Me like! Good to like!

Hail M14! Me like! And Neo should like too!

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_-={MrTicky}=-_

Loyal to INFILTRATION!
As long as I live!

ShakKen
30th Jan 2000, 07:29 AM
Heheh, what can you expect from a German? A G3 for you eh, Neo! ^_^

Repairman_Jack
30th Jan 2000, 10:49 AM
M14=M1 Garand on speed=People want WWII weaponry!!!
I need my meds now folks...

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SEZ
Jon
--an armed society is a
polite society-

30th Jan 2000, 12:08 PM
I already voiced my opinion on the old iron, but the M-14 is still used today, and 7.62 none the less (can you tell Im tired of 5.56 weaps?) Delta Force members were using them in Somalia.

all weapons = descendent of chinese musket, doesnt mean I want them in INF /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I would go for a seperate pack of WWII weaps, though. But i wouldnt want the era mixed. Hell any real world weap is better than a shock rifle (yawn).

30th Jan 2000, 12:08 PM
I already voiced my opinion on the old iron, but the M-14 is still used today, and 7.62 none the less (can you tell Im tired of 5.56 weaps?) Delta Force members were using them in Somalia.

all weapons = descendent of chinese musket, doesnt mean I want them in INF /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I would go for a seperate pack of WWII weaps, though. But i wouldnt want the era mixed. Hell any real world weap is better than a shock rifle (yawn).

INF_Neo
30th Jan 2000, 07:07 PM
hehe, I don't like the G3 not either.
What about the G36 / G36K.
This is a weapon I will get to know in about 2 years.
Military service for 10 months aaargh!

Repairman_Jack
30th Jan 2000, 07:57 PM
..which neatly brings us back to Warren animating the musket reload cycle...

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SEZ
Jon
--an armed society is a
polite society-

31st Jan 2000, 11:53 AM
Maybe I unconsciously want a musket in INF? Or do I just enjoy giving RJ hassle? Probably the latter.

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Got real maps? Get the goods at:
http://people.mw.mediaone.net/rkcoffey/index.html

31st Jan 2000, 11:53 AM
Maybe I unconsciously want a musket in INF? Or do I just enjoy giving RJ hassle? Probably the latter.

------------------
Got real maps? Get the goods at:
http://people.mw.mediaone.net/rkcoffey/index.html

Snakeye
31st Jan 2000, 12:57 PM
Well, before thinking about muskets:
How about Wild West..
a 1851 Navy Colt(no Mason-Richards Conversion), would give a nive reload cycle, about one minute.(hehe)

By the way, why does anybody think that an M14 leads to an M1 Garand(I'd prefer the M2 Carbine..) and this leads to a civil war musket?
An M14 still is a potent weapon; maybe not for CQB, but the SEALs still use it, because of its high precision and its ability to work when wet.
There are many good 7.62 weapons; even short ones - the FN FAL para-version(or was it Congo-version?? - the one with the short barrel..).

But after all I'd rather say we wait 'till 3.0; maybe all your weapon dreams come true with the weapons featured there..
(as mentioned before, my two favourites are there: the M4 and the SIG551..)

Wait until 3.0, before you call for Infiltration: Civil War.

Snakeye

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YES, I read the Roadmap!!

deathren
31st Jan 2000, 02:20 PM
Repairman_jack, You have to take Medication too? (Im not the only one out there!)

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> To be, or not to be? That is the question!
[/quote]

My loyalty is to I N F I L T R A T I O N (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/)

New here? Then go and read the Roadmap (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/roadmap.htm)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"Even trusted friends are capable of betrayal"[/quote]
-James Bond, Goldeneye 007

deathren
31st Jan 2000, 02:20 PM
Repairman_jack, You have to take Medication too? (Im not the only one out there!)

------------------
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> To be, or not to be? That is the question!
[/quote]

My loyalty is to I N F I L T R A T I O N (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/)

New here? Then go and read the Roadmap (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/roadmap.htm)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"Even trusted friends are capable of betrayal"[/quote]
-James Bond, Goldeneye 007

Kibbles-N-Bits
31st Jan 2000, 03:22 PM
I'm not on meds no more! The doctors said that since I ran out yesterday and havent killed anybody yet, they wont send in those guys that smell funny and wear white clothes!

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"You don't win a war by dying for your country. You win a war by making the other sonovabitch die for his!" - General Patton
---------

Repairman_Jack
31st Jan 2000, 03:43 PM
Yeah, JW Black, by mouth, as needed.
May not be taken with ice.
This product promotes drowsiness, do not operate a vehicle or heavy machinery.

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SEZ
Jon
--...now where did this extra spring come from?-

Feztaa
31st Jan 2000, 03:48 PM
something I think is funny, on a box of child's tylenol (or whatever it was, for children) it says you shouldn't operate heavy machinery after taking them... I don't think you have to worry too much about stopping a child from operating heavy machinery... /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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-Feztaa!
(I read the road map!)

profit
31st Jan 2000, 08:42 PM
//

Deathren: 1 line post, 20 line signature, stop the madness

[This message was edited by profit on Nov 23, 2000 at 05:02.]

Corin
1st Feb 2000, 01:55 AM
Sooo fetzaa, you been knockin' back a few of those grape-flavored cildren's tylenol's at parties?

proclone1
1st Feb 2000, 02:46 AM
Can we please keep this topic on the great weapon known as the M-14 please? haha not civil war muskets (they were actually for the most part rifled barrels, making them rifles) the M-14 is great for laying down a large amount of fire, be it from automatic or semi automatic fire, it packs quite a punch.

ShakKen
1st Feb 2000, 03:36 AM
Are you nuts? The on full auto, the M14 goes ballistic. Muzzle climb with that gun is pretty much uncontrollable. Believe me, I know. And even if you could keep the muzzle down, I give it 4 mags before the barrel overheats.

I'mean DUH! That was one of the main reasons the US army wanted the M16 instead.

In fact, all the 7.62 NATO rifles I've fired(FAL, M14 and G3) are nearly impossible to keep on target in full auto. the 7.62x39 Russian has less kick but it's not quite as powerful.

7.62 comes into it's own in semi auto though. It's a very predictable round.

The average accuraccy for a full auto AKM at a man sized target 50 meters away is 5 rounds out of 30. For a G3, that's 2 shots out of 20. This was determined by the SAS.

proclone1
1st Feb 2000, 03:43 AM
Well said. My Force Recon buddy said he and his 4 other teammates would have their weapons on full auto while scouting around, and if they were discovered they would just burst full automatic, but after that brief burst the weapon would be switched to semi auto in order to save ammo. The 20 meters of visibility in the jungle did not call for accuracy, so they just sprayed and prayed on full auto for the first encounter. I think the full auto could be used for real close range suprised defense. At distance, it would be horrible accuracy, meaning the user should switch to semi auto. You are most likely right about the 4 mag overheating rate, I think the m-16 can handle about 3 mags at full auto before the barrel overheats.

Repairman_Jack
1st Feb 2000, 03:53 AM
Okay, you want to talk M14. That's not a problem.
First a little history, in 1953 the countries of the NATO alliance decided to standardize ammunition and it was a matter of urgency that inspired them to develop weapons like the FN-FAL, the G3, and the M14.Most European nations went with the FN-FAL(Which I happen to prefer over the G3), but the US opted for a homegrown design. This was the M14 which is really no more than a product improved M1 Garand.
There are many differences however, but the parentage is quite obvious. The M14 is capable of selective fire and was the first American rifle to offer that option other than the early BAR. The 20 round mag was a huge improvement over the M1's 8 shot stripper, and there is a light bipod available for use in the SAW mode.
Even though it was capable of selective fire, this feature was usually(80% of the time) found with the selector plugged and locked to keep it in semi-auto mode only. The main reasons were that it was a little light for sustained fire leading to severely reduced accuracy and the barrel tended to overheat quite quickly. There was an M14A1 version which had some improvements to make it a better LMG, but this project was cancelled due to money problems.

There really are no battle rifles or true GPMGs in the Roadmap at this time. I'd put my request in for the FN-FAL and the MG3, but they wouldn't see the light of day until fall at the earliest.

------------------
SEZ
Jon
--...now where did this extra spring come from?-
--Real quote said to self after stripping, cleaning and reassembling 16 MP5Ks--

[This message has been edited by Repairman_Jack (edited 02-01-2000).]

1st Feb 2000, 04:13 AM
I too like the M-14, although if I had a choice between it and the M-16 I'd go with the 16. Not only is it a hell of a lot lighter, you can carry more ammo and it's controllable on full automatic. It's also got the evil black plastic pistol grip, so it's more comfortable to shoulder. I also know the M-16 inside and out (probably better than some military armorers!) so I'd be much more comfortable with it.

The overheating problem is a little different with the 16. Right over the barrel there is an aluminum tube running the length between the front sight base and the upper receiver. Gas from the fired cartridge is trapped in the front sight base, ported through the gas tube and into the key on the bolt carrier which cycles the action. Because it's only made of aluminum, it's prone to melting if overheated very rapidly. This is sort of a fail-safe to prevent cookoffs when dumping mag after mag downrange. I know several people who've managed to melt, or at least get glowing white hot, their gas tube. Some managed to get as far as melting the *handguards*.

The M-16 Light Machine Gun has a beefier gas tube that handles heat very well and stands up to continuous fire much better, although that system is open bolt and thus cookoffs are not a problem. Of course blowback M-16's like the 9mm submachine guns and .22 LR conversions make no use of the gas tube, although I doubt one would be firing those fast enough to actually get a cookoff.

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Gryphon/JTF2
Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

=JTF2= Infiltration Server Info (http://members.home.net/freedomstoystore)

1st Feb 2000, 04:13 AM
I too like the M-14, although if I had a choice between it and the M-16 I'd go with the 16. Not only is it a hell of a lot lighter, you can carry more ammo and it's controllable on full automatic. It's also got the evil black plastic pistol grip, so it's more comfortable to shoulder. I also know the M-16 inside and out (probably better than some military armorers!) so I'd be much more comfortable with it.

The overheating problem is a little different with the 16. Right over the barrel there is an aluminum tube running the length between the front sight base and the upper receiver. Gas from the fired cartridge is trapped in the front sight base, ported through the gas tube and into the key on the bolt carrier which cycles the action. Because it's only made of aluminum, it's prone to melting if overheated very rapidly. This is sort of a fail-safe to prevent cookoffs when dumping mag after mag downrange. I know several people who've managed to melt, or at least get glowing white hot, their gas tube. Some managed to get as far as melting the *handguards*.

The M-16 Light Machine Gun has a beefier gas tube that handles heat very well and stands up to continuous fire much better, although that system is open bolt and thus cookoffs are not a problem. Of course blowback M-16's like the 9mm submachine guns and .22 LR conversions make no use of the gas tube, although I doubt one would be firing those fast enough to actually get a cookoff.

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Gryphon/JTF2
Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

=JTF2= Infiltration Server Info (http://members.home.net/freedomstoystore)

1st Feb 2000, 04:13 AM
I too like the M-14, although if I had a choice between it and the M-16 I'd go with the 16. Not only is it a hell of a lot lighter, you can carry more ammo and it's controllable on full automatic. It's also got the evil black plastic pistol grip, so it's more comfortable to shoulder. I also know the M-16 inside and out (probably better than some military armorers!) so I'd be much more comfortable with it.

The overheating problem is a little different with the 16. Right over the barrel there is an aluminum tube running the length between the front sight base and the upper receiver. Gas from the fired cartridge is trapped in the front sight base, ported through the gas tube and into the key on the bolt carrier which cycles the action. Because it's only made of aluminum, it's prone to melting if overheated very rapidly. This is sort of a fail-safe to prevent cookoffs when dumping mag after mag downrange. I know several people who've managed to melt, or at least get glowing white hot, their gas tube. Some managed to get as far as melting the *handguards*.

The M-16 Light Machine Gun has a beefier gas tube that handles heat very well and stands up to continuous fire much better, although that system is open bolt and thus cookoffs are not a problem. Of course blowback M-16's like the 9mm submachine guns and .22 LR conversions make no use of the gas tube, although I doubt one would be firing those fast enough to actually get a cookoff.

------------------
Gryphon/JTF2
Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

=JTF2= Infiltration Server Info (http://members.home.net/freedomstoystore)

Repairman_Jack
1st Feb 2000, 05:29 AM
When I was still in the service as an armorer, we had a Reserve Drill Sergeant who, during his two week summer camp at Bragg, managed to warp a barrel by going full auto with an A1 and blowing through 22 30 rounders. He managed to heat the gas tube to the point it swelled and collapsed in on itself. Can you say Article 15?
If a GPMG was in game, there would have to be some way to simulate barrel replacement. The M14 is an excellent weapon, unfortunantly, its place in the food chain is already filled by the PSG-1.

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SEZ
Jon
--...now where did this extra spring come from?-
--Real quote said to self after stripping, cleaning and reassembling 16 MP5Ks--

PeCe
1st Feb 2000, 07:18 AM
*harr* military service named "bundeswehr"

bäää

but G3 is cool

INF_Neo
1st Feb 2000, 08:36 AM
You too? Ah, at least I'll get to know the G36

ShakKen
1st Feb 2000, 10:20 AM
Gimpys are nice.

I knew one one guy whose A1 practically exploded in his face when he hit a double load. He blew the reciever out of the ejection port and the T-bar hit him in the face and fractured his cheekbone.

The guy beside him had 17 seperate pieces of brass in his shoulder. That was the last time we used re-loaded bullets.

INF_Neo
1st Feb 2000, 10:27 AM
ouch!

ShakKen
1st Feb 2000, 10:48 AM
Did I mention I got hit by part of the reciever? And I was 20 meters down at the armory!

INF_Neo
1st Feb 2000, 11:07 AM
You too? Man, this is weird


[This message has been edited by INF_Neo (edited 02-01-2000).]

proclone1
1st Feb 2000, 11:42 PM
The post about the M-14's position on the food chain has already been taken by the psg-1. This saddens me, because the psg-1 is too weak in the game for what it is, a sniper rifle. I've hit a guy 3 times in the chest and he didn't go down. The M-14 would take that bastard's chest with him (but then again in real life so would the psg-1). One problem I have with inf's psg-1 is that the rate of fire is too slow, there's too much of a delay between, I think. That's just my opinion, but how about this, what if the Infiltration team made a replacement model for the M-16? Have the client choose which model he used, the M-16 or an M-14, and let him pretend! Oh well, I love the mod anyways

Repairman_Jack
2nd Feb 2000, 01:26 AM
Well, strictly speaking you could make an excellent case for making the PSG-1's rate of fire even slower. It is typically issued with a 5 round magazine, is frequently found as a single shot weapon.

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SEZ
Jon
--Infiltration-More challenging than changing the recoil spring in a M60--

Unknown_Gamer
2nd Feb 2000, 01:45 AM
haha, that always happens to me. explains my lost finger....

2nd Feb 2000, 02:11 AM
Jeez, all this talk of military service brings up an interesting question: how many of you have served? Personally I've never had the honor, although I'm seriously considering it. I'd probably be right at home! My main concern I guess would be a lack of action (note I said ACTION, not COMBAT) as I'd be joining the Canadian military. Ugh... That, and committing to something for so long without understanding it fully. However, I'm still young...what say you, Repairman_Jack and others?

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Gryphon/JTF2
Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

=JTF2= Infiltration Server Info (http://members.home.net/freedomstoystore)

2nd Feb 2000, 02:11 AM
Jeez, all this talk of military service brings up an interesting question: how many of you have served? Personally I've never had the honor, although I'm seriously considering it. I'd probably be right at home! My main concern I guess would be a lack of action (note I said ACTION, not COMBAT) as I'd be joining the Canadian military. Ugh... That, and committing to something for so long without understanding it fully. However, I'm still young...what say you, Repairman_Jack and others?

------------------
Gryphon/JTF2
Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

=JTF2= Infiltration Server Info (http://members.home.net/freedomstoystore)

2nd Feb 2000, 02:11 AM
Jeez, all this talk of military service brings up an interesting question: how many of you have served? Personally I've never had the honor, although I'm seriously considering it. I'd probably be right at home! My main concern I guess would be a lack of action (note I said ACTION, not COMBAT) as I'd be joining the Canadian military. Ugh... That, and committing to something for so long without understanding it fully. However, I'm still young...what say you, Repairman_Jack and others?

------------------
Gryphon/JTF2
Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

=JTF2= Infiltration Server Info (http://members.home.net/freedomstoystore)

ShakKen
2nd Feb 2000, 02:35 AM
Don't go into the regular military if you dont think you'll have the time. That being the case, you should join a reserve program. Be a 'holiday/weekend warrior' like me! ^_^

It's a good experiance.

Repairman_Jack
2nd Feb 2000, 03:19 AM
This is Jon being serious for once,
I was offered the traditional choice, join the Army or go to jail. Saved my wannabe criminal ass from becoming a boil on society's backside . For those of you that have a decent future, think real hard about joining up. For God's Sake! Get your education first if possible and come in as an OCS type if you just have be a soldier. Smart, educated types can go a hell of a lot further than High School dropouts...

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SEZ
Jon
--Infiltration-More challenging than changing the recoil spring in a M60--

Warren
2nd Feb 2000, 03:38 AM
Absolutely- I joined right outta highschool thinking I'd save my parents a buck or two and get my degree while in the service, then go through OTS and become a pilot.. geeezus there's gotta be a stereotype for that one.. anyway, *cough* whatever man. Besides constantly working 12 hour days, putting up with exercise after exercise (you know, the kind where you suck rubber for hours at a time), deploying with a couple days notice to some place halfway around the world, and spending 85% of my time trying to please the very people I was trying to become.. bah- it's a helluva learning experience, but take it with a grain of salt.. unless you wanna be a career enlisted, play the political game for 20 years, make sure you have a realistic plan when you join! Unfortunately, the Good Soldier(tm) is outnumbered.. soon to be MIA...

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Warren
Project Coordinator
i n f i l t r a t i o n
http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration

Questions? Check out our Roadmap (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/roadmap.htm).
Then check out our FAQ (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/3.0/faq.htm).

Hodag
2nd Feb 2000, 06:03 PM
I joined when I was 21 and basically just kicking around trying to figure out what to do with my life. This is NOT the recommended way to decide to join the military services!

Back on the topic of the post. I carried the M21, then the M24, then the M82A2 for 6 years. I have used the PSG-1 and I found it clumsier then the the others. I would not use any ofthese weapons for land clearing(as suggested by an earlier post), but I would rather see any of them in the Mod than the PSG-1.
My 2 pfennigs worth...

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Adam C.
-------
Oh Christ... another Mac
fanatic...

INF_Neo
2nd Feb 2000, 06:06 PM
Are you German, Hodag?

What rifle do you propose then?

Hodag
2nd Feb 2000, 07:01 PM
Nope, I'm a stupid Yankee /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif I'd like to see the M21 instead of the PSG-1, but I'll freely admit that I'm biased. I did get a chance once to fire the WA-2000, I'm not a big fan of non-standard(non-NATO or Pact) cartridges, but that .300 really holds a punch. Plus the design of that rifle with the full-floating barrel and mounting rails for all your bipods/tripods/monopods and aiming devices works beautifully (and as an added bonus it is one of the most high tech looking rifles made).

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Adam C.
-------
Oh Christ... another Mac
fanatic...

Jaguar
2nd Feb 2000, 07:24 PM
If you have it's cousin, Mr. M-16, you dont need Mr. M14. Sure, it has a more deadly round, but it's a low vintage big, old, chibby, low magazine rifle who was replaced by the M-16

Repairman_Jack
2nd Feb 2000, 07:36 PM
I'd rather have Mr. M-16's older brother Mr.AR-10 but since I don't expect to fighting for the Sudanese army, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. http://members.home.net/ironchefwilly/q3w/smileys/018.gif

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SEZ
Jon
--Infiltration-More challenging than changing the recoil spring in a M60--

INF_Neo
3rd Feb 2000, 09:39 AM
I'd like to have a CQB model due to the many urban maps

Billdog
3rd Feb 2000, 04:38 PM
The Danish recruitment agency put me it the category that won't even be used as reserve in wartime!
To bad Germany never got the G11, then the Danish army would have been forced to issue a modern weapon(logistic).

So this is how you wan't to be known Neo!

------------------
-> If you haven't seen this, you know nothing about Infiltration: The Roadmap! (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/roadmap.htm)
-> Are you having trouble with the Editor or is it the other way around? Kick this! (http://www.unrealed.net/)

Billdog
3rd Feb 2000, 04:38 PM
The Danish recruitment agency put me it the category that won't even be used as reserve in wartime!
To bad Germany never got the G11, then the Danish army would have been forced to issue a modern weapon(logistic).

So this is how you wan't to be known Neo!

------------------
-> If you haven't seen this, you know nothing about Infiltration: The Roadmap! (http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration/roadmap.htm)
-> Are you having trouble with the Editor or is it the other way around? Kick this! (http://www.unrealed.net/)

INF_Neo
3rd Feb 2000, 05:08 PM
Yeah, a pity. But our G36/G36K/Mg36 is also a great weapon. (Much better than the M4 IMO)

Billdog
4th Feb 2000, 01:28 AM
That don't get the danish army new equipment does it?

The danish military are buying old APC's for half the price of new ones, so it can upgrade them 2 years later to the quality of the new APC's. They end up costing the same until you think in lifespan and spare parts.

The politicians are even killing the only potent weapon in the arsenal, the last of danish naval might. The Baltic sea are the best area in the world for small subs, and ONLY small subs. Denmark can just afford small subs, but apparently they don't earn enough votes.

proclone1
4th Feb 2000, 01:37 AM
I'd just like to add that the mauser98k was a cool weapon, and I'm still pining for a
M-14 weapon. Whatchu talkin bout with "low vintage"?? tool.

-Mayhem-
21st Nov 2000, 02:00 AM
What is with the double posting?

http://unreal.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?s=10009422&a=ga&ul=948093892

Angel Of Death
21st Nov 2000, 11:08 PM
M-14 is hell of a lot more durable than the M-16. It has a lot better range too. If your only argument is that in full-auto it has no control, then quit talking. You should know by now that you won't hit anything if you just hold the trigger until the clip's empty with any full-auto gun. By the way, the Navy SEALs currently use the M-14 for field battle. That's for people who argue that the M-14 isn't used anymore since the M-16 came in.

The gates of Hell are awaiting as you see.. There's no price to pay just follow me.. I can take your lost souls from the grave.. Jesus knows your soul cannot be saved.

[This message was edited by Angel Of Death on Nov 22, 2000 at 10:10.]