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deathren
29th Feb 2000, 05:43 PM
Lets say, a grenade detonated underwater, It would send out a high-pressured shockwave, It touches another grenade, peice of ammo, pawn, they would instantly be destroyed. Good idea, huh? H&K 69? That too.
Same for AT4 Would be bigger though.

And For the C4, Well, Pretty much everything in the water zone would be eradicated.

NOW, Here is a new weapon idea, an underwater weapon only. Can you guess what it is?

DEPTH CHARGE!!!!!!! (Shockwave effect too!)

Now, When guns fire underwater, Their functionality would depend on how long theyve been in the water. Lets say, there is a meter, Picture of the gun, and it would slowly fill up with a blue texture (Fills up a bit more once fired, So fire an automatic weapon, it would like fill up FAST), representing water, NOW, If you were in acid/lave, The gun (and you) would deteriorate, Using the same guage, except filling with a red or green texture.

Now, If a grenade was in acid/lava, Instant explosion.

Cool idea, huh? Well, Thats it.

Just another Idea by me. OH!!! If a gun is out of water, It will drain slowly.


All explosions/muzzle flashes that are under water will have a different teture than before, like, BVeretta M Flash, BANG! on land, Orange. BANG! Underwater, Bluish orange.

I do realize this would be hard to program, don't have to do it, just thought it would be more realistic.


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"Even trusted friends are capable of betrayal,"
-James Bond, 007


[This message has been edited by deathren (edited 02-29-2000).]

deathren
29th Feb 2000, 05:46 PM
Oh, and um, when weapons fire underwater, there is a different sound, Like in Duke Nukem 3D, Weapons' sounds are distorted. And please try to have the quake effect in he water, where it wavers, Again, just an idea.

I do realize this would be hard to program, don't have to do it, just thought it would be more realistic.

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"Even trusted friends are capable of betrayal,"
-James Bond, 007

[This message has been edited by deathren (edited 02-29-2000).]

Snakeye
29th Feb 2000, 07:09 PM
Do guns fire under water??
I honestly never tried it, but I don't think an M9 would be effective when fired underwater.
That depthcharge is a good idea - especially if it could sink the November-Class submarine in CTF-November.
Jokes aside: What do you think a depthcharge weights?(Small line to explain what I think a depthcharge is:
Large to huge explosive device, usually kind a cylindershaped, dropped from Ships(preferably destroyers or so) or aircraft to damage/destroy submarines)
Althougl all other explosives would work under water; not so sure if the 40mm Grenade of the HK69 wouldn't explode on impact on the water surface.

Would after all bring some amusement: shoot innocent bots from above the water, while they are in the water - defenseless, hehe

Snakeye

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anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing

disturbed
29th Feb 2000, 09:17 PM
Some guns can fire under water, others can't.

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Jon Merriman
The Research Center
http://rc.gamersreality.com/

Loki
29th Feb 2000, 09:18 PM
hehehe, I can picture it now: Players running around with a big barrel on their backs, get shot, KA_BOOOOM!!! Huge explosion and a big crater in the ground. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think while underwater, their is a tint of blue or what ever media you in.

And I dont think guns can be fired under water too.

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- Loki

Snakeye
1st Mar 2000, 05:13 AM
Thinking is good, knowing is better;
perhaps our private message board arms expert could help.
GRYYYYYYYYYYYYPHOOOOOON!!!!!!!!!!
HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP!!!!!!!
What the matter with guns fireing under water?!

Snakeye

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anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing

Tome
1st Mar 2000, 06:02 AM
I don't claim that i know a lot about real guns, but i believe there must be a problem with at least prolonged fire or firing at all underwater. Otherwise, H&K most probably the greatest weapons manufacturer in the world would not have had to develope the P11 specifically for underwater use. Check it out here (one ugly bast**d)http://www.unsuave.com/~hkpro/peleven.htm

1st Mar 2000, 07:13 AM
Any gun can fire underwater. It's a question of effectiveness and pressure. You can never fire hollowpoints underwater, because the water will start mushrooming the bullet right away and destroy your gun. Ball ammo only.

Depending on the length of the barrel and the bore diameter, some weapons can be fired safely underwater while others can't. The majority of pistols are ok. It has to do with being able to displace the water in the barrel within a very short time. Glocks are usually the weapon of choice for underwater work as Glock specifically makes components that enhance underwater reliability. With light hammers you risk not igniting the primer because the water retards the hammer fall (or in the case of Glocks, the striker release).

Other factors to consider are effective range, physiological effects, and evacuation of the weapon. Any gun will have a very reduced range and effectiveness underwater because water is much denser than air. Typically 10 meters is the most you should aim for (pardon the pun). Then there are the physiological effects on the shooter from firing a gun underwater. A lot of pressure is created in a very short time in a very small area, and magnified by the water's density, if you're not prepared for the blast you'll be hurting from it. Also, if your gun barrel is not completely evacuated of air you risk destroying the gun completely, just as an obstruction in a dry barrel can cause an explosion.

HK's P11 pistol was not designed because guns won't work underwater, it was designed because guns don't work underwater very well. You'll notice that performance of the P11 is exceptional underwater compared with regular handguns, but in open air most any pistol will far surpass its capabilities.

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Gryphon/JTF2
Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

=JTF2= Infiltration Server Info (http://members.home.net/freedomstoystore)

1st Mar 2000, 07:13 AM
Any gun can fire underwater. It's a question of effectiveness and pressure. You can never fire hollowpoints underwater, because the water will start mushrooming the bullet right away and destroy your gun. Ball ammo only.

Depending on the length of the barrel and the bore diameter, some weapons can be fired safely underwater while others can't. The majority of pistols are ok. It has to do with being able to displace the water in the barrel within a very short time. Glocks are usually the weapon of choice for underwater work as Glock specifically makes components that enhance underwater reliability. With light hammers you risk not igniting the primer because the water retards the hammer fall (or in the case of Glocks, the striker release).

Other factors to consider are effective range, physiological effects, and evacuation of the weapon. Any gun will have a very reduced range and effectiveness underwater because water is much denser than air. Typically 10 meters is the most you should aim for (pardon the pun). Then there are the physiological effects on the shooter from firing a gun underwater. A lot of pressure is created in a very short time in a very small area, and magnified by the water's density, if you're not prepared for the blast you'll be hurting from it. Also, if your gun barrel is not completely evacuated of air you risk destroying the gun completely, just as an obstruction in a dry barrel can cause an explosion.

HK's P11 pistol was not designed because guns won't work underwater, it was designed because guns don't work underwater very well. You'll notice that performance of the P11 is exceptional underwater compared with regular handguns, but in open air most any pistol will far surpass its capabilities.

------------------
Gryphon/JTF2
Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

=JTF2= Infiltration Server Info (http://members.home.net/freedomstoystore)

1st Mar 2000, 07:13 AM
Any gun can fire underwater. It's a question of effectiveness and pressure. You can never fire hollowpoints underwater, because the water will start mushrooming the bullet right away and destroy your gun. Ball ammo only.

Depending on the length of the barrel and the bore diameter, some weapons can be fired safely underwater while others can't. The majority of pistols are ok. It has to do with being able to displace the water in the barrel within a very short time. Glocks are usually the weapon of choice for underwater work as Glock specifically makes components that enhance underwater reliability. With light hammers you risk not igniting the primer because the water retards the hammer fall (or in the case of Glocks, the striker release).

Other factors to consider are effective range, physiological effects, and evacuation of the weapon. Any gun will have a very reduced range and effectiveness underwater because water is much denser than air. Typically 10 meters is the most you should aim for (pardon the pun). Then there are the physiological effects on the shooter from firing a gun underwater. A lot of pressure is created in a very short time in a very small area, and magnified by the water's density, if you're not prepared for the blast you'll be hurting from it. Also, if your gun barrel is not completely evacuated of air you risk destroying the gun completely, just as an obstruction in a dry barrel can cause an explosion.

HK's P11 pistol was not designed because guns won't work underwater, it was designed because guns don't work underwater very well. You'll notice that performance of the P11 is exceptional underwater compared with regular handguns, but in open air most any pistol will far surpass its capabilities.

------------------
Gryphon/JTF2
Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

=JTF2= Infiltration Server Info (http://members.home.net/freedomstoystore)

Sylvester
1st Mar 2000, 08:19 AM
Idea...

It would be nice that when you fire a gun outside the water and are aiming at someone in the water that the bullet loses speed an accuracy once it enters the water. I saw a documentary once about bullets entering water and the path that they follow.
I think that it is possible to kill someone when he's only one or two meters under water, but when he's deep down...it would be pure luck or just plain impossible.

IMO the time that a player can stay under wather should be shorter or speed should be slower...now it is possible to dive very deep and that isn't realistic.
Again IMO watertextures shouldn't be transparent because it's just to simple to kill a guy when he's under water and in real life, clean transparent water is difficult to find these days.

When there is a navy seal caracter that you can choose from...his water skills should be better than the average soldier/terrorist/bodygard.


Now that i think of it...when a diver wants to surface from a certain depth, he'll have to do that in stages because if he surfaces to quick...he'll die!
Would be nice for the game...but impossible for the gameplay so forget the last thing i mentioned


Sylvester out...

boogerboi
1st Mar 2000, 12:59 PM
man...this game is gonna be real realsitic and we can even live in it!
anyway y dun u inf guys add some kindda underwater pistol...u noe like those in delta force 2...
or maybe some underwater spear launchers...
watever...i juz cant wait for inf3.0 to come out...

deathren
1st Mar 2000, 03:44 PM
Whaddabout the grenade idea? toss a grenade into the water, BYE BYE, BOTS! That or fire an Hk 69 into the water. Or if you are suicidal, throw a grenade while yoiu ARE underwater. OUCH! You must swim VERY FAST!

deathren
1st Mar 2000, 03:47 PM
Anyone played Turok 2: Seeds of evil to PAST the lair of the blind ones? Kill something in the water, in isnt one of the wimpy blood puffs, It is like a cloud that slowly dissapears! One of you, Go cut yourself in the bathtub, and youll see what i mean (KIDDING! Unless you like Self-Mutilation)

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"Even trusted friends are capable of betrayal,"
-James Bond, 007

thornz
1st Mar 2000, 07:15 PM
I think the shockwave idea is really really cool.

a depth charge is kinda silly, but a grenade will do

I hadnt given much thought to how much swimming there will actually be in inf. Physics might be a real bitch for that, so they might sidestep it completely (which I wouldnt blame them for) by not having deep enough water in official inf maps.

I really think the grenade idea is a good one though, if only for non-inf specific maps.

come to think of it, so many things need to be done for swimming that I'd be suprised if you skipped it. Weight, sinking, the fact that you can't swim with all this weight forever, the fact that currently UT isnt realistic in drowning. Should be shorter to start taking off energy, and death should be quicker.

my suggestion, skip it. More work not really needed, since this isnt really specific for seals and stuff.

Snakeye
1st Mar 2000, 07:23 PM
THANKS GRYPHON!
A man you can rely on..
Still I don't think this underwater discussion will lead anywhere. How many INF maps do you have/know where it is necessairy do swim/dive through water and engage enemies enroute?
Another factor would be the angle the bullet strikes the water surface; at certain angles the bullet will be reflected from the surface!

Snakeye /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing

thornz
2nd Mar 2000, 06:29 PM
yeah, I'm not suprised, since when your bodys at terminal velocity & you're trying to fall into water, you'll break every bone in your body.