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View Full Version : Infiltration needs a good old bolt-action rifle.


Vulpine
23rd Mar 2000, 11:45 AM
What infiltration is really lacking is a firearm that uses a full size .30cal carterage. Something that has really good long range power, but without a scope. Where you have to aim through your sights to hit you target. The sights can be ajusted for range just like a scope can. How bought a Enfield, Mauser, Springfield, or even a Krag.

INF_Neo
23rd Mar 2000, 12:19 PM
We're not accepting any weapon suggestions now.

Snakeye
23rd Mar 2000, 05:07 PM
Yeah really good idea..
..I'd bet anybody with a AKMSU or a M4 will run away screaming when I come around with my Enfield - btw: the Enfields are .303 rifles, .303 British if anybody cares..
*shakin his head*

Snakeye /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing

Vulpine
23rd Mar 2000, 05:18 PM
Obviously, a bolt action rifle is not a good close combat weapon. I'm saying that it would be great for long range kills without using a scope. And by the way, a Mauser 98k is 7.92mm if you really want to get technical.

Corin
23rd Mar 2000, 09:43 PM
Why not just set the Robar's zoom to 450x?

Or the PSG's to 200x(ok its not bolt action, but wth)

And why wouldn't you want to use a scope for a long range kill?

Vulpine
23rd Mar 2000, 10:10 PM
Personally, I'm not a big fan of scopes and I really enjoy bolt action rifles. I realize for really long shots a scope is very necessary, but for those midrange shots I would want something with more power than a MP5 or even the M16. Something that will bring down an opponent is one shot. The whole reason all modern militaries use a 5.56mm or .223cal cartridge now instead of a good old full size .30cal is because it is not necessary for troops to be able to hit targets at extreme ranges because usually they can't even see that far. Secondly, the 5.56mm ammuntion is designed to wound an enemy, not kill him. This is because it takes far more man power the take care of a wounded man than a dead one. But in Infiltration the soul purpose is to kill. And the beauty of computer games is that you can carry as many main battle rifles as you can find. So you can switch from a long range weapon to a short range whenever you feel.

Maybe its just me, but I just really like the sound of a bolt opening closing. Its the same sort of satisfaction you get for racking the pump of a shotgun

DeadeyeDan[ToA]
24th Mar 2000, 02:19 AM
What do you consider mid range? For shots beyond 200 yards or so I would definately prefer a scope... and 200 yards and in the 5.56 is still clipping along at a very high speed and will show much more favorable terminal ballistics, esp. being able to penetrate the chest from the front and breech the spinal column. (And it's got some really nasty permanent and stretch wound cavities, check them out at http://www.fen.baynet.de/norbert.arnoldi/army/wound.html )

24th Mar 2000, 02:44 AM
Green Berets were shooting Iraqui soldiers at 7-800 yards out with 5.56 weaps in desert storm. Given the state of defense technology, bolt action, non-scoped rifles (whos intended use is not that of a sniper rifle) have become largely defunct.
CC

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Want to be an Infiltrator? Get the goods at:
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24th Mar 2000, 02:44 AM
Green Berets were shooting Iraqui soldiers at 7-800 yards out with 5.56 weaps in desert storm. Given the state of defense technology, bolt action, non-scoped rifles (whos intended use is not that of a sniper rifle) have become largely defunct.
CC

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Want to be an Infiltrator? Get the goods at:
http://www.planetunreal.com/realmaps/

Stuka
24th Mar 2000, 03:27 AM
Um.....beyond 200 yards? As a U.S. Marine we have to qualify with the M16A2 at ranges of 500 yards. I get straigh Bullseyes. Give mea break, I do the same thing in Inf, just learn how to aim. And you dont even have to worry about wind in inf. So give it a break.

Corin
24th Mar 2000, 05:03 AM
Especially considering that we wont be able to carry as many weapons as we want in Inf 3.0

Snakeye
24th Mar 2000, 05:33 AM
The 98 was build in many calibers..
..I got one at home with 7x57..
BTW:
I've shot a Sig-550 when I was 14? 13? something like that..at 300 meters(don't know how much that is exactly in yards)
without scope of course.
And at least the Austrian army has gun training as far as 500 meters, though the AUG has an integrated 1.5x scope.
The point is:
A 5.56 weapon can hit at far ranges as good as a 7.62(far does NOT mean 1.5 miles..).
If any 7.62 rifle is included it surely will be a semi-auto/full-auto. Why?
Compare:
Enfield N°4
.303 British, detachable 10 round mag.

M14
7.62 Nato, detachable 20 round mag and a much higher fire rate.

The accuracy is about the same, so which one would you prefer?

Another factor is the limited visible range you can see in INF(and UT generally) - I can hit any bot I can see with a M16 - most of them even with headshots. Sometimes I even just fire where a bot usually is and kill him(at CTF LavaGiant).

Any bolt action non-sniper rifles should be included in a possible WW2 weapon set.

Snakeye /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing

FabulousRex
24th Mar 2000, 06:24 AM
Bolt-action rifles in modern militaries only carry one advantage over semi-auto ones: a slight power gain from not having to operate the internals to 'jack' the next round in place. Personally, I'ld rather take someone's health down to 30 with a semi, and put the next one in their teeth; than take it to 25 then run and hide to work the bolt.

As Snakeye said, it *might* be included in a WW2 weapons pack. But in reality, that's actually going back to the 1st WW, as Germans and Americans and British alike used at LEAST semi-auto .30-06 rifles. Bolt action rifles back then were still used mainly as sniper rifles. (EG: remember the awesome sniper from Saving Private Ryan, he shot lefty with a right-side bolt... but he did'nt concern himself with firing rate)

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If ignorance is bliss, why are'nt more people happy?

DeadeyeDan[ToA]
24th Mar 2000, 06:14 PM
I know Stuka, all I said was I would *prefer* a scope for shots 200 yards and out, simply because of the added visibility and precision.

Stuka
24th Mar 2000, 06:55 PM
Ok, got ya. I thought you ment like...you cant hit anything at that range with out one ;p

Snakeye
25th Mar 2000, 12:10 PM
WW1?
The British as well as the Germans used mainly bolt action rifles troughout the WW2. The Germans had some MPs and in the final stages the MP44/Stg43(or so..) the first assault rifle - in fact the origin of the AKs..
About the caliber: .30-06 was used by the US only. As mentioned above the British used their .303 and the Germans some 8mm round..don't know the exact designation.
In fact the US were the only Army to use semi-auto weapons troughout WW2

Snakeye /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing

DeadeyeDan[ToA]
25th Mar 2000, 02:33 PM
Are you sure about that, Snake? I had heard that we were the only country to go into the war with semi-autos, but by the time the war was over other countries were using them...

[This message has been edited by DeadeyeDan[ToA] (edited 03-25-2000).]

Snakeye
26th Mar 2000, 12:41 PM
Yes they were using semi-auto rifles - but that was far from standard. The British never used semi-autos in masses; the Germans used them quite a bit at the end of the war, though standard issue was still the 98; about the CCCP I'm not sure how widespread their semi auto was..; Japan had no semi-auto at all, AFAIK..
Still, after playing five to six hours of INF that weekend I don't think a bolt-rifle without scope would make sense; if I can see a bot, I can get him/her with the M16, even with the MP5 - with luck. For 'short' distance the PSG with 2x zoom gives a better weapon than any bolt-action could.

BTW:
For those of you still using M16 with burst for long ranges: forget that.
I get the enemy snipers at Lavagiant from the 'Rocketlauncher Ridge' with a M16 single shot and some ammo - headshots of course. Anybody coming near takes one to three shots.
The M16 is hell of a accurate weapon - in INF - never shot one in real life.
Another nice sniper trick for that level:
If you can see a rifle at the second sniper position, take a Robar - PSG does it too, but Robar is better suited for that - and shoot some inch into the wall beside the window. You never imagine how many snipers felt secure until a .50 round ripped their heads off.

Snakeye /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing

Tr00p3r
26th Mar 2000, 04:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
- btw: the Enfields are .303 rifles, .303 British if anybody cares..
*shakin his head*
[/quote]

Is there a problem with that? You also forgot to mention that it`s about 50 years old, but so what? It`s still the ebest design for a bolt action weapon and bolt actions are good fun.

Vulpine
27th Mar 2000, 12:25 PM
Let me put this to rest. I'm not saying that you NEED to be using an bolt action rifle instead of your M16. I'm saying it would be a fun little toy to have and would be a challenge to use. I like challenges.

As for bolt action rifles used during world war II all nations except the US, with the M1 Garand, used a bolt action rifle as their main battle rifle and all rifle were approx. .30cal except the Japanese the type 38 and type 44 which were 6.5mm. The Japanese later stepped up the 7.7mm with the type 99. The only other nation to use semi-auto rifles during the war were the Germans who developed the Gewhr 43 in 1943, but didn't mass produce it nor give it to all their troops because it was complicated and unreliable. The Germans then developed the StG43/MP44, which was the first assault rifle. The German had plans to replace the Mauser 98k with the StG43/MP44 but their industry couldn't produce enough and the war ended before they could do so.

btw: The AK-47 is not a copy of the StG43. The are a completely different designs. The StG43 uses a blowback style action and the AK is gas operated. They just look a little similar.

Snakeye
27th Mar 2000, 01:43 PM
So that anybody starts hateing me:
The Enfield is more than 100 years old - together with the .303 British.
The SMLE(aka N°1)was used during WW1 - and WW2 by the Australians - but there are several older Enfield designs from the end of the 19th cent. which were used by the British Army.
About the AK/Stg43 - I didn't say the AK was a copy, I just said it was influenced by the Stg43 design - although my information is anything but exact. Still AFAIK the Stg43 used a 7.92x39 similar to the 7.62x39(,5?) of the AK.
Also it's always difficult to say which one the first AR was; some say it was the FG42 - a German paratrooper weapon others even refer to the BAR.
Same thing about the 'best' bolt action design.

Finally, don't get me wrong, I really like bolt-action rifles, the Enfield especially - why else would I have four of them at home and some books about them..
Still I can't see any challenge in using a bolt-action rifle while getting shot by some bots with ARs..
If they would use bolt-action too, I'd be the first one to use them.

Snakeye /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing

Vulpine
27th Mar 2000, 08:05 PM
Does anyone know if there every will be a WWII mod of UT? I'm guessing this adding a bolt action is not going to happen, it doesn't seem that popular.

Snakeye
28th Mar 2000, 06:08 AM
Try to post your wishes about a WW2 weapon set AFTER! 3.0 is out - maybe the team will make it for you.
(of course only if there are enough out there who want a WW2 set..)

Snakeye /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing

INF_Neo
28th Mar 2000, 06:49 PM
You've forgotten sth.!
IF the team wants to create a WWII mod anyway

Snakeye
29th Mar 2000, 04:10 AM
Mod?
I wasn't talking about a mod, just about a weapon set.
I always thought this was something different to a mod. Maybe a addition to the loadout screen - chose era: WW2, Vietnam, Modern - or so.
Of course only if the team wants to make such a set.
But if we all say PLEEEEEEEASE /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
could you really resist? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Snakeye /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing