Underwater= no firepower

UnrealAzn · Jan 16, 2001

Now I know that someone along the trail has already posted this idea already...but I need to ask..

I was playing some INF maps with water in it the other day and I thought it was time to take action about this mistake that could really affect Infiltration's realism factor...

I swim underwater many times and I could still fire my gun... now I know that the M16 is rainproof and not waterproof, or is the AKMSU..
so why is it the gun still fires?
I know that without oxygen that gunpowder dosen't burn, unless its gun that uses electric to fire the ammountion, so is this problem going to be fixed or what?

oh and one more thing... like when your in the water and when bullets fly in the water it only creates splash, I was playing quake3 long ago and I noticed the nice "bullets fly in water" effects. the trails of the bullets cruising in the water?

maybe those are good ideas I dont know...

No one lives forever...

Lord_Bunker · Jan 16, 2001

actually an electronic gun probably wouldn't fire. O2 is a nessesary element of combustion period. i really dobut(stupid can't speale wotrh jakc twodae) anyways, there have been a couple pistols made that could fire underwater but they were pretty limited.

but yes i agree with you and some problems are worth bringing back up.

Can you spot the sniper?

Too Late!

Eagle-Six-Zero · Jan 16, 2001

Ok.......

Im not sure what your suggesting for the underwater gun thing. I guess that could be fixed by having the gun just not fire underwater. Maybe thats the purpose of the machete.

I like the streaking bullets thing. That would be cool to see, but because it really doesnt affect gameplay I doubt the team will bother.

If You Run...Youl only Die Tired!

JaFO · Jan 16, 2001

bullettrails = Hollywood f/x ?

It might look good, but aren't visible bullettrails something the folks in Hollywood made up ?

I doubt that in real life you would be able to see them ...
Since I haven't seen guns (outside of movies & mods) I am not sure.

// firing guns underwater
some of the guns would probably jam (or have a chance) after they have been in the water too.
I think the team already is looking (or is going to look) into this.

- Hindsight is always 20/20 -

RogueLeader · Jan 16, 2001

Another bug:
I'm not sure if a wet grenade cannot light its fuse, but assuming it doesn't, you can still throw them underwater. If you throw a grenade udner water, you will get the ripple effect under water were you are standing.

On another note-
Since a wet gun cannot fire...does that mean that simply getting in and out of water will make a gun useless? I'm no expert on the effects of guns in water, but I remember that army commercial with guys popping their heads out of the water with rifles. I'm not sure, that may have been just for show...

Chronic · Jan 16, 2001

Under water...

If a bullet is fired into water, once hitting the water it will leave a trail. That's not just hollywood. However most guns after going underwater will have to be taken down and cleaned. But since INF doesn't have a swim with your rifle over your head option yet, we'll have to figure something out.

RogueLeader · Jan 16, 2001

Perhaps they could make a command to clean a weapon. Maybe you just bring your gun down for 10 seconds and can't fire during that period. It may not be a realistic cleaning process but its more realistc than nothing, and about as realistic as I think it can get without sacrificing fun.

Monoxide · Jan 16, 2001

I think one point your missing is, if you take a gun underwater, it probably wont work after you take it out of the water, even if you didn't fire it. What about that????

DEFkon · Jan 16, 2001

the underwater trails are no joke.

The danger with firing underwater is that if the barrel of the weapon isn't COMPLETLY submerged there's a high risk that the bullet will richorechet off whatevers in the barrel, and bascially cause the gun to destroy itself. I'm not sure what weapons in INF could actually fire underwater, but because the mp5 fires from a closed bolt it's probably a little safer than the other weapons. :7 but i don't know for sure.

another problem with water would by your extra mags or shells. Shotgun shells would be worthless, open mags might get all kinds of junk in there.. ect. ect.

but i'm sure that there are weapons the perform favoarably in wet enviroments.. If anyone group knows it's probably the Navy seals...

boom

UnrealAzn · Jan 16, 2001

Hey is that?

Hey where did you get that picture from? Is that a real life picture or a picture from a game?
I cant quite get a clear view of it...

hey but what aobut the NAVY SEALS they use alot of MP5Navys, is the MP5 Navy model waterproof?

One more thing:
you are all wrong... I dont mean firing a gun underwater and seeing the underwater trail...
I mean someone else on land(bot, human)firing into the water next to you...

No one lives forever...

Farrell · Jan 16, 2001

alright, I hate to reference a hollywood movie, but;

Maybe (maybe) some guns can work underwater that we havn't thought about. I'm not in a situation that puts me near guns being fired underwater often, so unfortunately my experience is limited to the movies.

We all remember the end to Lethal Weapon 4? Mel Gibson and Jet Li managed to end up underwater somehow, and Gibson grabbed a previously submerged AK-47 of some drowned henchman guy and unloaded into poor Jet Li. Poor Li. He might've been evil, but he was so cool.

Anyways; in the scene an AK47 was fired underwater somehow, it looked like he was shooting mb blanks or something. It could have been an effect, but it looked pretty convincing.

Has hollywood corrupted and mis-informed my mind?

And thinking about it- does a cartridge really need access to oxygen? It would make sense that it might, but, it may also be a completely chemicaly driven reaction, rather then combustion. When fired, sealed inside the chamber, the only access of gas might be through the bolt mechanism. Cuz the bullet forms a tight seal over the barrel. So oxygen would have to be sucked in to feed the explosion through the breech.. er something..

Anyways, lets get a gun nut to answer some of these questions.

jaunty · Jan 16, 2001

That picture of what looks like a glock, is completly submerged.

i wonder, in the process of the slide doing its thing, would water enter the barrel and mag, and then fudge the ammo.

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Lord_Bunker · Jan 17, 2001

the water tanks that are used for ballistic tests probably arn't much bigger than a twin bed. most bullets don't go much father than a few feet underwater. .22's the dinky rimfire ones go about the farthest i've been told.

Can you spot the sniper?

Too Late!

phatcat · Jan 17, 2001

damnit jaunty!!! fix your HTML tags its f'n up the board!

oh, and H&K dose make guns that fire under water with good accuracy. its on there web site. can't rember the addy, but its' there!

DEFkon · Jan 17, 2001

the pic came from here, there's more.
http://glock.missouri.edu/glock/glock1.shtml

boom

Chronic · Jan 17, 2001

Also...

Us ing guns underwater is stupid, because for a handgun if you don't have both hands on the gun, the kick can break your wrist. Above water, your hand moves through the air fast, but underwater it is possible to have your wrist broken due to firing a large pistol one handed.

DEFkon · Jan 19, 2001

you fire large calibur handguns one handed?

boom

Unicorn · Jan 20, 2001

As far as I'm aware, all the oxygen required for the bullet to fire comes from the gunpowder, not the atmosphere; cartridges are pretty airtight.

I've also seen a picture of a Russian SMG which is supposedly designed to shoot underwater, firing very long (several inches) bullets; presumably the high sectional density makes them much more effective underwater than normal guns. Of course, only having seen one picture, it might just be something someone made up.

Stumpy · Jan 20, 2001

Hey you guys, a gun doesn't need oxygen to fire its bullets, the cartidges are sealed to the air and the chemicals within it just react to explode without air needed.
As for the bullet trails they would affect gameplay in a positive way, as if someone was on land shooting at you you'd notice all the bullet trails appearing all around you which might convince you to move a bit.
As for some guns shooting under water, yes some modern guns can, but the speed the bullets fly out at (and therefore the damage) is greatly reduced.And even the guns that can fire underwater can't reload underwater.
I think that when you select your weapons it should say if the can can fire under water safely or not.
But most modern guns nowadays are very water resistant, except some types of sniper rifles, which can get really stuffed by water.

Lord_Bunker · Jan 21, 2001

i think hk said that their underwater gun only has a ronge of like 22 feet so it's pretty useless. most guns even if they can shoot under water the bullet looses energy pretty quick. try doing a bellyflop off a high dive and you'll know how the bullet feels. water is just to viscous.

Can you spot the sniper?

Too Late!

Underwater= no firepower

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