PDA

View Full Version : My beef with the "real world" maps.


Wedge
5th Feb 2000, 12:20 PM
This is not meant to offend anyone. And let me start be saying that I've been impressed with the level design and quality of the maps I've tried.

But it seems to me that the appeal of Infiltration is the real world aspect it brings to the seen. That is to say that it promotes TEAM play. With realistic damage modeling you can no long expect to go charging in solo and clean up. And that is why I love the mod.

That being said, why isn't there more focus on team oriented maps? Most of the maps at the "Real World" web site are all Death match. I tried some of those maps and while they are good looking and play well, they are also boring. I'm not a fan od Death match and I thought that we'd see a trend away from that with this mod.

Any thoughts?

5th Feb 2000, 01:13 PM
Youre obviously pointing out a current flaw in UT gameplay, but one that will be addressed in the future.

You have to remember teamplay is dependent on several things. First the author of the map has to make it conducive to teamplay which is a design issue and totally up to them. Second, the people you play with have to be into teamplay. This is harder than it sounds, FPS have generally taught the gaming community solo techniques and not how to work together. Third, UT came out only a few months ago and people are still getting their 'legs' in regard to mapping. Many of the maps that we review are designed for UT, not INF, so the structure that the map takes isnt conducive to teamplay or even at times real life (you may have a real life map, but with no objects to grap cover behind for instance)

But this is changing. Read Faceless post about suggestion for INF mapping, he is going away from DM style. Also read my review of AS-Central, I think that as mappers get more comfortable with assault, there will be more AS maps, exactly for the reason that you point out and I agree, DM does get boring, and people want objectives in their gameplay.

Which is exactly what INF should bring , so you have to be patient and play the maps that most support teamplay for now, and do not worry ew will find the maps that support teamwork/play. Check out the AS maps we have and DMTYard, they are all very good and actually by the same author and may please you.

I can gaurantee that youll see teamplay in the future especially from INF, also check out Raekwons maps page http://members.tripod.com/~RaekwoN_maps/ for a CS redo that looks great and should be extremely conducive to teamplay.

Remember, right now were doing the best we can with what weve got.
CC

------------------
Got real maps? Get the goods at:
http://www.cablelink.com/realworld/index.html




[This message has been edited by coffeycan (edited 02-05-2000).]

5th Feb 2000, 01:13 PM
Youre obviously pointing out a current flaw in UT gameplay, but one that will be addressed in the future.

You have to remember teamplay is dependent on several things. First the author of the map has to make it conducive to teamplay which is a design issue and totally up to them. Second, the people you play with have to be into teamplay. This is harder than it sounds, FPS have generally taught the gaming community solo techniques and not how to work together. Third, UT came out only a few months ago and people are still getting their 'legs' in regard to mapping. Many of the maps that we review are designed for UT, not INF, so the structure that the map takes isnt conducive to teamplay or even at times real life (you may have a real life map, but with no objects to grap cover behind for instance)

But this is changing. Read Faceless post about suggestion for INF mapping, he is going away from DM style. Also read my review of AS-Central, I think that as mappers get more comfortable with assault, there will be more AS maps, exactly for the reason that you point out and I agree, DM does get boring, and people want objectives in their gameplay.

Which is exactly what INF should bring , so you have to be patient and play the maps that most support teamplay for now, and do not worry ew will find the maps that support teamwork/play. Check out the AS maps we have and DMTYard, they are all very good and actually by the same author and may please you.

I can gaurantee that youll see teamplay in the future especially from INF, also check out Raekwons maps page http://members.tripod.com/~RaekwoN_maps/ for a CS redo that looks great and should be extremely conducive to teamplay.

Remember, right now were doing the best we can with what weve got.
CC

------------------
Got real maps? Get the goods at:
http://www.cablelink.com/realworld/index.html




[This message has been edited by coffeycan (edited 02-05-2000).]

Derek
5th Feb 2000, 01:20 PM
Personally, that is one of the main things that drove me away from Counter-Strike, it pushes too strongly to force you to act in a team. What I really, really wanted sometimes was to be able to go out and shoot Counter-Terrorists with my AK without having to worry about bombing that or keeping hostages alive.

What I like about infiltration is that the way it is designed automatically promotes team-play, without forcing it down your throat like counter-strike does.

In Inf, if I want to go at it alone, I can... I will die, and much sooner than if I went in with buddies, but I can, and I won't screw up the whole 5 minute match because of it.

Anyways, what you are asking for is more assault maps, and they're coming, just don't ask people to phase out deathmatch: thats not good.

Dragon
5th Feb 2000, 02:43 PM
I will be tring to review more Dom, CTF, and I have one AS map thats new and pretty good. I agree with you on the DM maps,it get's really old respawning just to be shot after 2 steps. Coffey is right it's the fact that all of the maps are for UT not INF that makes this a problem. This will change man, just give it a little time and you will be fragging with a team in some really cool realworld maps.

------------------
People do not fear Dragons for thier Power, it's thier Wisdom
RealWorld maps reviewed by realworld players:
www.cablelink.com/realworld/ (http://www.cablelink.com/realworld/)

sudasana
5th Feb 2000, 03:14 PM
I have a map that is nearing completion, and I'll try to make it geared toward teamplay, grouping the player starts around an 'entry point' of some kind where the team can fall back to if there's trouble. It would work well as a domination map, but I don't like the giant glowing icons used to represent the control points. If there's a way to replace them with something more low key like a small beacon (not Mavis) I'll do it, but otherwise it'll be a teamplay DM map.

I'll post a link to the beta later if anyone wants to playtest it. It's realworld for sure, and I hope it's inf material.

Dragon
5th Feb 2000, 03:43 PM
Yes please do I would love to test it out. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

------------------
People do not fear Dragons for thier Power, it's thier Wisdom
RealWorld maps reviewed by realworld players:
www.cablelink.com/realworld/ (http://www.cablelink.com/realworld/)

Buddy_Pickle
5th Feb 2000, 03:47 PM
I agree with alot of what has been said here. We are starting to see betas of maps geared to specific team play objectives. If the map is not built around Asault, then chances are it is mainly a deathmatch map good for team deathmatch. (or one on one in some cases)

Where I think we can see some great improvments right now is for mappers to create environments where the teams spawn in their team area, and not to random spawn points. If they are random, the map tends to be a deathmatch map with little team work, especially if you spawn right next to your enemy.

BTW, a map that does this quite well (though not perfectly) is DM-BigClapper. Pretty new map that has one team start in the house, and the other in the courtyard. This creates all kinds of tension and strategy for me.

We will post EVERY map that is created to be REAL WORLD in design. Even the crappy ones for now. People are just starting to get really creative with 2.7 and I suspect we will see some serious stuff coming soon.

Buddy_Pickle
"Real what? Real Maps, of course..." www.cablelink.com/realworld (http://www.cablelink.com/realworld)

Sylvester
5th Feb 2000, 03:49 PM
I don't like the new look on the review site... totaly real even with teleporters... i don't think so!
Same for archives... i've never encountered a door that you have to shoot before it opens... this is NOT REAL!
Give some other indication that a map is good or bad.


Sylvester out...

Buddy_Pickle
5th Feb 2000, 04:23 PM
Hey Syl,

Check my post on the other thread...

Buddy

Wedge
5th Feb 2000, 08:31 PM
It's good to see I'm not alone. I will be patient and I'm sorry if I came off a little to harsh. I realize it's early in the development of Inf and we got a long way to go.

I also agree that it detracts a bit from the experience to use the UT flags and control points in CTF and DOM maps respectively. (Hell, it even detracts a bit from the experience to see UT models carrying the Inf weapons) But I personally prefer those game types to even the Team Deathmatch and would be willing to suffer with those oddities to play the games I like.

That being said, I wish more would try to make some CTF Inf maps. (I know, I should get off my duff and do it myself). I realize I must sound like a snob but the truth is I don't have the time to make maps. I can barely squeeze time in to play the mod. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif To all you map makers out there I salute you. You are doing a great job and if I could only make one suggestion it would be that I'd like to try out more Team oriented maps.