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Wanderer
18th Feb 2000, 06:14 PM
I've currently come to a brainfart on this map and am not sure if I should or shouldn't expand it. This is where it stands right now.

Very small, very quick.
Teamwork required if you want to even think about getting the flag.
Follows the 1 funnel idea.

I'm thinking I should make it bigger (for more routes to the flag). Something to the effect of 2-4x bigger. So should I keep it as is? Or go with the Texan motto "bigger is better"?

Any and all feedback is good and no saying "it sucks!" without having a good reason and an idea on fixing it /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
http://members.xoom.com/Wanderer22/unreal/CTF-Them.zip

Wolfn2it
19th Feb 2000, 04:00 AM
Have you changed at all since last time you posted it?!! I like it the way it was. It made it hard to get from one side to the other especially the the way the walls were mazed. One way in one way out

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Kill'em all and let God separte 'em!!!

19th Feb 2000, 04:19 AM
You make fun CTF maps, hands down. I dont want to inflate your ego, but your maps make INF a thinking mans game, do I go high or low, where is a good chokepoint, will my teammate cover my 6, are all things that I think about when I play your maps..so great job...

Now onto CTF-Them (did you see my rev of Fin, btw?) Again a great map I this time, I have but three suggestions...

1. Make it bigger, the no mans land could be about 1/4 to 1/3 bigger with the same layout, that area is your money shot, it make for great intense gameplay.

2. Fix the lights, the torches seem to have a wierd hue to them so that when you leave a base, you are blinded a bit by them. They also dont stick witht he real theme, making them real lights would be great, but be sure to leave some dark spots around the map for stealth.

3. Redo a little bit of the texturing in real life textures, bunkers or what have you..you have a good eye so I leave it up to you, also providing a cover object or two in the flag area would be cool.

Cant wait to see the next beta. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
CC


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Want to be an Infiltrator? Get the goods at:
http://www.planetunreal.com/realmaps/

19th Feb 2000, 04:19 AM
You make fun CTF maps, hands down. I dont want to inflate your ego, but your maps make INF a thinking mans game, do I go high or low, where is a good chokepoint, will my teammate cover my 6, are all things that I think about when I play your maps..so great job...

Now onto CTF-Them (did you see my rev of Fin, btw?) Again a great map I this time, I have but three suggestions...

1. Make it bigger, the no mans land could be about 1/4 to 1/3 bigger with the same layout, that area is your money shot, it make for great intense gameplay.

2. Fix the lights, the torches seem to have a wierd hue to them so that when you leave a base, you are blinded a bit by them. They also dont stick witht he real theme, making them real lights would be great, but be sure to leave some dark spots around the map for stealth.

3. Redo a little bit of the texturing in real life textures, bunkers or what have you..you have a good eye so I leave it up to you, also providing a cover object or two in the flag area would be cool.

Cant wait to see the next beta. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
CC


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Want to be an Infiltrator? Get the goods at:
http://www.planetunreal.com/realmaps/

Evil Joe
19th Feb 2000, 06:18 PM
Those huge torches make for some good brush work... very quakish looking. (Not bad to look like quake just bad ot play like quake /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif

But coffeycan is right make the level more like RL... the walls are a nice touch... expand on them... some bunkers would be nice... some with holes in the ceilings and what not... give it that bombed out look. You could make the area's with the two flags the bases. If you want to change the theme even further you could put trenches in... maybe some barbed wire like in overlord... make sure they cause damage (check overlord for how)

I'd keep with the bottleneck at the bases but definately expand on the middle make is so you have more room to roam and hide.

Coffeycan is right on... that is where all of your strategy play will take place.

If you REALLY want to get into it you can add some nice triggered explosions and stuff and make is seem like a RL battlefield. I think that would be very nice.

19th Feb 2000, 06:56 PM
Explosions on the battlefield? Thats what the 3.0 claymores are for, heh, heh, heh. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
CC

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Want to be an Infiltrator? Get the goods at:
http://www.planetunreal.com/realmaps/

19th Feb 2000, 06:56 PM
Explosions on the battlefield? Thats what the 3.0 claymores are for, heh, heh, heh. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
CC

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Want to be an Infiltrator? Get the goods at:
http://www.planetunreal.com/realmaps/

Wanderer
22nd Feb 2000, 10:12 AM
Gah... took to long for an update. But things are a bit different. For the most part I've changed the base area, the centerpeice, and some other stuff. The base area is far from finished and will be overhauled just as soon as I figure out what to place there. So far here are the thoughts on what I'll be doing next.

1- Add 2 more entrances to the bases on the left and right. You'll have to blow it up to get it in. Gonna be a pain to figure out how to get the bots to shoot at it.

2- Gonna have seperate weapons storage area. A sort of weapon depot or armory if you will. Any suggestions on where to place it?
No guns right now so choose your stuff on the startup.

3- Debating sniper towers. Seeing over the main field is a bitch on the framerate. May have sniper towers at the corners of the inside of the base.

4- Add more structures to the front entrance so it's not so open. Right now it's pretty barren.

5- Add machineguns to the small sandbag defense up front.

6- Gonna see what I can do about the textures. I don't like them right now. Gotta check RealWorld to see if their texture section is up.

7- I know I know... the sky is wrong. Will be fixed. And I'll make it more realistic looking.

8- Make CTF-Fin pale in comparison. Atleast that's the hope /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
http://members.xoom.com/Wanderer22/unreal/CTF-Them.zip

Any and all suggestions from anyone are greatly appreciated. And don't be afraid to go into insane amounts of detail. I tend to keep this thread open on my 2nd monitor when I work.

/me gets the Ctf-Fin feeling with this version for some reason...

22nd Feb 2000, 11:53 AM
Our texture section is certaintly up, but the textures we have are the ones that you can get at SOB and a few random others, still, check it out.

We should post your map beta section, if your'e interested in this let me know and Ill get it up. Havent played the new version yet, DL'ed it, and Ill report back asap
CC
CC

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Want to be an Infiltrator? Get the goods at:
http://www.planetunreal.com/realmaps/

22nd Feb 2000, 11:53 AM
Our texture section is certaintly up, but the textures we have are the ones that you can get at SOB and a few random others, still, check it out.

We should post your map beta section, if your'e interested in this let me know and Ill get it up. Havent played the new version yet, DL'ed it, and Ill report back asap
CC
CC

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Want to be an Infiltrator? Get the goods at:
http://www.planetunreal.com/realmaps/

RegularX
22nd Feb 2000, 01:58 PM
ah, man, I just downloaded the last one /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif.


Just some thoughts on your notes:

1* I thought under the Creature Care guide (of which I'm sure you know /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif ), there was something about the bots understanding shootable triggers. I thought about using them to teach the bots on Fulton how to jump through the glass, but low and behold they seem to do it with just a normal mover and damage triggered on. Oddest thing, though, at least on my TNT2, there is a green plasma splash whenever they go through the windows.

3* Good idea. They shouldn't need to be too high if that helps

8* Good luck, CTF-Fin rocked. And CS-Desert wasn't nearly as bad as CS-Embassy ;P

I'll download the latest tonight.

22nd Feb 2000, 03:15 PM
yeah, on my map you have to either shoot a door or window to get in or out, and the bots just sort of knew how to the whole time. guess it's built in
Lost

22nd Feb 2000, 03:15 PM
yeah, on my map you have to either shoot a door or window to get in or out, and the bots just sort of knew how to the whole time. guess it's built in
Lost

Evil Joe
22nd Feb 2000, 05:07 PM
CC ---> yeah C4 is cool but the randomness of the built in explosions would give it that "in the midst of battle feel". Here you are running around and there are explosions that nobody in the game has control over. I think that gives you a sense of the chaos of battle.. just my opinion though... also if he put in some random smoke generators that where triggered by say a stoch trigger that would be cool... when you have explosions and guns there is a large quantity of smoke after all... These types of enviromental effects (random explosions and smoke) are just as important as sounds.

sniper tower solution for any height tower. An overhead view will give you high p-counts UNLESS you limited the view from the tower... make the tower walls 32 units thick... thick enough to stop all but the Robar I believe. Now make the windows tall but thin.... this way you can get a good downward angle but you limit the view to the left or the right... now this does two things... it lowers the p-count + it makes the sniper towers more balanced... if you put the towers in such a way that there are still some routes to the base that aren't covered by the sniper. Also this will give the sniper adequate protection from small arms fire... a robar on the other hand should eliminate them.

If you are going to use my suggestion I would also suggest using a modified cone to subract ou the windows... that way on the sniper side the window is wider... it then tapers as it reaches the outside face of the wall... or vice versa.. it doesn't matter... experiment around till you get good angles and low p-counts...

another suggestion for the battlefield part: mortar spawners. The use of a mortar spawner in AS-Overlord was cool. Definately added to the battlefield feel of the board. Also mortar spawners are extremely easy to implement. I'm suprised more people aren't using them.

Hehe I can't velive I gave away the mortar spawner secret. Oh well its very easy to use and you can find it under effects. Now every kid on the block is going to be using the damn things... (wouldn't give the "secret" away if I didn't have cooler things up my sleeve http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~unreal/modcentral/html/sarcblink.gif )

Wanderer
22nd Feb 2000, 05:50 PM
I don't like the idea of built-in explosives. Not that I'm not willing to put them in or that I'm lazy it's just a matter of being a pain in the ass. Being a pain should be the other teams job, not mine. INF players have enough worries, not just me.

Personally on the sniper tower deal, I'ld like it to be thin walls so I can tag them with say an M4. Sniper's are a typical PITA (pain in the ass) breed as is. Although I've got a better idea on the windows though.

Mortar... I may or may not. This is like the random landmine deal here. You die quick enough as is. Besides this place is virtually barren other then the 2 dinks that decided to setup base next to each other /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Wanderer
23rd Feb 2000, 01:35 AM
Keeping in tradition with of the "new update at the end of everyday" here's the next version. Still no weapons laying around but I'll drop an armory above ground behind the flag with doors going out sideways and one more going out the back in case the front gets really hairy.

Tell me what you think of the sniper towers. They're relatively thin walls but it's wood and the slanted tin covering should help lower the poly count when looking out. Also makes it a bit tougher to see the sniper so that's a bonus. You'll have to duck though to see out farther. Bots could be tough to get the to snipe but we'll see.

2 bunkers out back will have machineguns planted later so that is in the works.

I'm skimping on the pathnoding right now though.

Still need to add more victimless buildings (somebody send me the blue prints to their house /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

Until I can think of more the previous plan is what I'm going by for now.
http://members.xoom.com/Wanderer22/unreal/CTF-Them.zip

/me prays for the love of god that nobody has actually gone to that site... /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

23rd Feb 2000, 01:36 PM
I like the sniper towers and the way they work, as well as the fact that they can be penetrated by lighter weapons, as I agree that snipers want to do nothing but camp and snipe, and never change tactics, good for you to force them to /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Here my suggestions before you pre-empt me and put out another beta /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mix your textures up some, there is a whole lot of GREY going on. Make the ground and the canyon walls different, or the rubble and ground, etc. It starts to all mix together as it is now.

I would tighten up the no mans land, I like the size, but the spacing between the rubble could be slightly tighter, this was the essence of the other version, it was tight and fast, the spacing takes some of that away. Actually, I now think that if you do decrease the spacing that the overall size for the no mans land may need to decrease.

In the flag area, how about instead of the two bunkers in the rear, you put two sandbag bunkers at an angle facing the entry point just in front and on either side of the flag

I think that there are sandbag textues in the untitled texture pack at the site, and its very small.

I just am wierd about the red and blue thing, so I say make the two fortress walls two seperate realistic textures like in Fin.

Cant wait to see the next beta.
CC

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Want to be an Infiltrator? Get the goods at:
http://www.planetunreal.com/realmaps/

[This message has been edited by coffeycan (edited 02-23-2000).]

[This message has been edited by coffeycan (edited 02-23-2000).]

23rd Feb 2000, 01:36 PM
I like the sniper towers and the way they work, as well as the fact that they can be penetrated by lighter weapons, as I agree that snipers want to do nothing but camp and snipe, and never change tactics, good for you to force them to /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Here my suggestions before you pre-empt me and put out another beta /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mix your textures up some, there is a whole lot of GREY going on. Make the ground and the canyon walls different, or the rubble and ground, etc. It starts to all mix together as it is now.

I would tighten up the no mans land, I like the size, but the spacing between the rubble could be slightly tighter, this was the essence of the other version, it was tight and fast, the spacing takes some of that away. Actually, I now think that if you do decrease the spacing that the overall size for the no mans land may need to decrease.

In the flag area, how about instead of the two bunkers in the rear, you put two sandbag bunkers at an angle facing the entry point just in front and on either side of the flag

I think that there are sandbag textues in the untitled texture pack at the site, and its very small.

I just am wierd about the red and blue thing, so I say make the two fortress walls two seperate realistic textures like in Fin.

Cant wait to see the next beta.
CC

------------------
Want to be an Infiltrator? Get the goods at:
http://www.planetunreal.com/realmaps/

[This message has been edited by coffeycan (edited 02-23-2000).]

[This message has been edited by coffeycan (edited 02-23-2000).]

RegularX
23rd Feb 2000, 02:00 PM
Wow, when you make updates, you really make updates /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

I like the new size. I don't know if I agree with CC on the tightening of the no man's land, but I did notice that the bots got easy to ambush after a while, which I don't recall from the old one. Perhaps that is the "skimping" on the pathnoding, not sure.

Like the new buildings and textures. Agreed with CC, it's a little one grey-ish, but I do like the kinda dreary look. I love the skybox btw. It seems a little futuristic, perhaps (is that a wormhole before me?), but I still think it's sweet.

Do you mean autocannons or manual machine gunesI would be very careful about the addition of autocannons. I've seen too many AS maps where sections become instant nofun death zones.

Wanderer
25th Feb 2000, 01:34 PM
I would've had this out last night but I wanted to both sleep and play test it before hand to make sure the bots work. Here's the skinny on what's new.

Moved the barracks back into the mountains. This buys the attacking team some time in between slaughters.

Added an armory which is conveniantly above and behind the flag base. Bots will 80% actually go there. The other 20% they feel gung-ho and try to pull a Rambo.

Added some broken walls on the inside of the bases as well. It just didn't look right for the ruins to stop conveniantly before the wall.

Changed the sky, I like it anyways /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bot pathing has been overhauled with defense points, alternate paths and the likes.

Added manual machineguns care of Beppo's CRMs. I'm gonna work some more on seeing if I can't get the bots to use'em.

That's pretty much it. Now I've got school work which I'm supposed to be doing if I want to graduate.
http://members.xoom.com/Wanderer22/unreal/CTF-Them.zip

Murdock
25th Feb 2000, 04:57 PM
Well, now, this is looking awesome. When this guy comes out with a new version, he doesn't mess around! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The new sky is absolutely beautiful, and the floor texturing takes the map to the next level. Before, it kinda felt like fighting on a lunar surface, but now it's got a real earthy feel to it.

The insides of the bases are much better now. Before, it was a little sparse. Still, I was a little skeptical about having broken walls inside the bases, but you pulled it off really well.

Those machine gun emplacements are really nice, though it might be cool if you made them into dugouts with a roof and perhaps some netting for camoflauge. Of course, that might seriously throw off the balance. I imagine it'd be hard enough to get through the main gate with humans players or competent bots manning those guns, much less with them entrenched!

The exploding walls are cool, but is there a way to keep them from respawning? That, again, might throw the balance off, but it would be more realistic. Besides, it really doesn't take a lot of effort to blow them right now, so the attacking team wouldn't gain much by having them stay down.

That's about it for now. Keep up the good work!

RegularX
26th Feb 2000, 06:16 PM
My god, Wanderer, do you do anything else in your free time /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ?

1) Love the new skybox. Course, I loved the old skybox, wormhole and all. I loved the skybox in Fin. I think there's trend here.
2) Like the sniper towers. Good view of the field without giving the snipers impunity. One thing, I had to jump to get into the tower itself, that excellent ladder you built seemed to miss a top rung.
3)Like the new bases. Only thing here is that the ambient buzzing noise is neat, but a little loud, imo.
4)Bot-pathing seemed excellent. I only had one time when one got stuck, and that is where I was at the .50 and I think he was trying to get to it. He just kept running into the sandbags there, even after I left.
5)Speaking of the .50's, I like them and there placement. Only thing I wasn't sure about was the damage. Haven't played with the CRM's yet, but would seem that guns that big would pack a little more punch. Course, I'm far from an expert on this. Love that that the bots use them though.

All small things. Excellent map.

Wanderer
26th Feb 2000, 07:57 PM
Honestly, I don't have a life /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Ah well I've got nothing better to do anyways and this is better then just sitting on my duff all day watching Springer /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Final version will be out tonight, I'll let you guys rip through it and it's instant property of Real Maps afterwards.

So here's what to expect.

Health vials in the ruin corners like the original.

Reinforced walls. The ones you blow up will now require a bit more work. I gotta dink with this a bit to find out what causes the most damage and make that the required weapon for wall removal.

Added another step to sniper tower ladders so you should be able to walk on up.

Gave the machineguns a little more umpf so it should literally tear people up on entry. So snipe them first and get them out of the way.

That's all I can think of. Expect a final version in about... 6hours.

[This message has been edited by Wanderer (edited 02-26-2000).]

Wanderer
27th Feb 2000, 01:47 AM
Here it is intact and with everything it needs so the file size is a bit bloated but it ensures that when someone downloads it, they've got everything.
http://members.xoom.com/Wanderer22/unreal/CTF-Them.zip

This is the final version for this one so CoffeyCan, Buddy Pickle, it's yours toss it on up.

RegularX
29th Feb 2000, 03:09 PM
Hey Wanderer, was this going to be reviewed at Real Maps or just previewed?? Me's confused.

Buddy_Pickle
29th Feb 2000, 06:41 PM
To answer your question, RealMaps WILL be reviewing this map today....(Though it may not be posted till sometime late tonight.)

Until then, Wanderer's other hot map, CTF-Fin, is currently our map of the week. I am not saying yet, but CTF-Them might just take it's place next week. Great stuff...(but you will have to read the review.) heh heh

BuddyPickle www.planetunreal.com/realmaps (http://www.planetunreal.com/realmaps)

BenJRoethig
29th Feb 2000, 08:08 PM
Beta? It's the best damn map I've played so far. Actually, could you make a special Death Match version for me with no weapons or ammo for me? Thanks.

Wanderer
29th Feb 2000, 09:08 PM
Please remember that Ctf-Them is a strong attempt at combining close-quarters and outdoor goodyness with the occasional sniper. Judge this yourself though.

What I could do to really make this place interesting is to make a Dom version with only 1 Control Point (that being right in the middle). Limiting it to 2 teams only and using Beppo's Teambased mod (it allows team area spawns in Team Deathmatch and Domination) it would definitely be a reality. But I'm really iffy on doing remakes of past levels. Sure it's an easy gig (minor changes, good level anyways, etc) but I like to try to be as original as possible with each new map. A sort of personal requirement if you will. If you guys really want, I can see what I can pull off.

[This message has been edited by Wanderer (edited 02-29-2000).]

Lance201
1st Mar 2000, 05:42 AM
played ctf-them yesterday evening, I think the newest version, but can´t find any crms... where are they, it´s a small map isn´t it??

LCPL TWENTY

Buddy_Pickle
1st Mar 2000, 04:55 PM
You have the old one. The new one can be found (review and file) right here.
www.planetunreal.com/realmaps/ctf-them.htm (http://www.planetunreal.com/realmaps/ctf-them.htm)

Buddy Pickle www.planetunreal.com/realmaps (http://www.planetunreal.com/realmaps)

Wanderer
1st Mar 2000, 06:29 PM
The latest version comes with everything you need (minus the Infiltration mod). Just place the .u file into the UnrealTournament/System folder and the .utx file into the Textures folder. This will give you everything you need to run the map. But it's just not the same when it's running regular Ctf, you really need Inf for the right feel.

Hey, BP what did you expect for guns? I'm not a military arms specialist. I just went for whatever looked right /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Wanderer (edited 03-01-2000).]

Wanderer
1st Mar 2000, 09:26 PM
Hehe, I just noticed something in that map. In the barracks look up. One of the lights is missing. I thought I fixed this but I somehow let it slip by again. Ah well /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Buddy_Pickle
1st Mar 2000, 10:28 PM
Ha! Thought I might get you on that one. No big deal. I like the turretts no matter how they look. Scary as hell running into that base and finding those things pointed right at you.

-bp