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Midhir
11th Mar 2000, 08:07 AM
DM-HoldingArea (http://home.earthlink.net/~corald/maps/DM-HoldingArea.zip) needs some help with pathing

The bots seem to have difficulties with
the spiral stairs mainly, but they also
get stuck in the holding cell (on the left
if you're looking at both of them through
the bars), on the bed where they spawn.

I've noticed problems with the gas chamber as well,

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MIDHIR
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Paralax
11th Mar 2000, 01:38 PM
Other than the bot pathing I thought it was a cool map. I liked the gas chamber but didn't like having to chase after bots that are stuck in the holding cells only to have to repeat the process after they respawn there again. I thought the layout was cool but definately called for at least 10 players. It might be a good idea to delete the playerstarts that are in the holding room, then replace them outside the gas chamber. You could place the best items in the gas chamber and use this as a reason to enter them. I'm assuming that the playerstarts are in these srooms to simulate having to 'get out' of the gas chambers, but as a deathmatch level I don't think it would detract from the overall appeal of the level if you moved the playerstarts. I had to widen some of the doorways in my level just to get the bots to go through the doors. I also had to use lift exit-center-exit tags to get them to use 2 sets of steep stairs. Sometimes using the lift exit-center-exit tags can confuse the bots if too many are visible at once. But you may be able to use them to entice the bots to exit the rooms. Or you can try placing an item on the other side of the doorway and raising the maxdesirability of the item to entice the bots out. If none of this makes sense email me and I'll try to clarify.

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That would be me...gettin' fragged.

Midhir
20th Mar 2000, 01:56 PM
Well I took your advice and put the two
spawn points that were in the gas chamber
cells at points outside around the perimeter of the building. I put an M-16 on the roof
where the redeemer/AT4 was, and an AT4 in
the gas chamber (along with ammo for
various things in each cell).

I replaced all the UT weapon actors with
Infiltration ones, so the weapons I intended
to be present all along are now present. =)

The update is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~corald/maps/DM-HoldingArea.zip

[This message has been edited by Midhir (edited 03-20-2000).]

Paralax
21st Mar 2000, 05:59 AM
Cool....I will download and check it out in awhile. One really good thing to do when observing bot behavior is to load up the map and play as an observer. Fly around and spy on the bots to get a feel for where they are having difficulties. Then go back to UEd and keep tweaking pathnodes until they don't get stuck and they run everywhere. once you can watch the bots run all thropugh your level for a good 10 min without getting stuck it is a pretty safe assumption that they will appear to be moving even more intelligently to the observer who is in the heat of battle. Also the door that rotates(swings) open got stuck in the closed postion on me. has this happened to you? I'll stop jabberin' and start downloading and check it out.
At first I didn't like some of the dark areas outside but I have since changed my mind. In an online match those dark areas could present quite a challenge to people running around unaware of their surroundings...and in real life (at night) there are plenty of pitch black areas to hide in.

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That would be me...gettin' fragged.

Paralax
21st Mar 2000, 09:52 AM
Midhir,
I fired up the new version and did a little 'botwatching'. here is what I noticed:
The bots are not going in to the gas chamber. I think I know why and how to fix this. The path nodes on either side of the door are too close. Try placing only one path node in the inner hallway (the one surrounded by the doos leading to the cells and the gas chamber respectively). Then move the node on the other side of the doorway back a little ways. Do the same for both doorways. I will demonstrate with a really rough sketch here
. = pathnode
| = door
.|. .|. This is how you have it laid out now.

Try something like this:
. | . | .

Try that do a paths define and then view the paths. Blue = most desirable path, red = less desirable. Try to get blue paths, it's a pain sometimes but the bots will behave better if you can do this.

The towers are causing the bots some probs too. I believe there are too many pathnodes leading up and down the spiral staircase. having too many can sometimes confuse the bots. Try only using pathnodes in the centere of the stairway placed at the start of corner so that each node is clearly visible in a line leading up and down the stairway. Adjust the height of the pathnodes until you get blue lines. Also eliminate all the nodes by weapons, and the ambushpoints. These actors will attract bots to them onj their own, the pathnodes placed by these actors may be confusing the bots. I also noticed a pathnode in the air at the top of the stairs suspended out beyond the top of the spiral staircase. Try not to have any nodes hovering in unreachable areas as the bots may attempt (unsuccessfully) to levitate to theses pathnodes.
I am not sure how this will turn out but give it try and remember that:
1. Blue is better than red
2. Less pathnodes that lead the bots around your level are actually better. Don't get too skimpy on the pnodes but don't add too many (especially in tight areas like the stairs).
I hope this makes sense and i hope it helps. if you are unclear as to the meaning of any of this just post or respond via email. I check the boards alot, and my email even more and will clarify this stream of conciousness. Laterz.

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That would be me...gettin' fragged.

Midhir
24th Mar 2000, 06:15 AM
I updated the map (http://home.earthlink.net/~corald/maps/DM-HoldingArea.zip) with (IMO) much better bot pathing, and as usual a few problems...

I made the bots use the gas chamber, but,
the editor won't define paths between nodes
in a pain zone. The paths do work when
I turn off the pain zone property in the
gas chamber zoneinfo. If I turn it back on
after defining the paths the bots just get
stuck in the 'caution hallway' as you'll undoubtedly notice if you watch =)

The bots also (sometimes) get stuck picking
up the M16 ammo right next to the parking
area asphalt. Should I move it away from
the asphalt? (My idea was that it should
be hard to see it if you were coming round
the building from the one side, drawing
you into sniper fire while you look for
ammo...)

I think I managed to get the stairs working
to some degree better, although I couldn't
manage to get a few of the paths to turn
blue no matter which way I twisted.

I'm considering putting a few large bushes
throughout the yard (sheets, they
won't stop bullets) for someplace to
dodge snipers, what do you think?


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MIDHIR
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[This message has been edited by Midhir (edited 03-24-2000).]

Paralax
30th Mar 2000, 08:07 PM
The bots are smart so they won't want to go into the pain zone...not sure about any way around this for bot play. Don't give up, there has to be a way.
About the M16 Ammo...try deleting it and replacing it just a little ways away. Sometimes that works.
What kind of brushes were you thinking about putting in the yard?
How about some fencing coming off of the building, so even the initial exit from the building is cordoned off and quasi-secure? This could add some extra coverage. The you could stack some crates, or even building materials in one part of the yard...or maybe even a propped up Semi truck container. You could keep it plain and even allow people to go up into it. very often the containers are left behind as storage for whatever came in them if the receivers of the stuff can't unload the truck. Don't know if this is the case at prison type areas? Just an idea.
BTW, where is the new version of the map...I'd like to play it and see the changes. Sorry it has been awhile since I replied...I have been busy.

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That would be me...gettin' fragged.