View Full Version : Scale of units

5th Apr 2000, 12:28 AM
Just wanted to make sure this is correct before I do any more work on my map... Is Infiltration going to continue to use the same unit-to-real world scale as UT, that is, thirteen (or twelve, if the player models are supposed to be a bit taller than six feet) world units equal one foot? Was there any decision made on whether the position of the player's view will be changed in order to make levels done to the correct scale look right?

5th Apr 2000, 05:15 AM
I'd say so...but the easiest way to do it is to stick a bot in there and measure everything up to it.

5th Apr 2000, 06:44 AM
I think the easiest way would be to convert the units to metric measurements like centimeters, but that's just my backwards non-American, entirely-rest-of-the-world Metric way of thinking. And yes, I was lobbying for them to raise the camera to eye level, though I think they dismissed that.

5th Apr 2000, 09:10 AM
What would be really nice, though bordering on impossible, is to have an option for "Eye Level Snap" on or off...

You turn it on and you can 'walk' the level from inside UEd..and check out the things. Turn it off and it's free flying as usual.

Would save so much time...

But still, the FOVs in UEd's 3D view and the actual game are different so this tool if it's ever implemented would only do good to check out ceiling heights and other perpendicular-to-camera stuff...

This is your brain...
THIS IS YOUR BRAIN ON INF... (bold /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

Evil Joe
5th Apr 2000, 04:05 PM
metric conversions from unreal units sort of sucks... 1 unreal unit is roughly equal to a scale inch in third person view... but when you construct levels using that exact scale with real world dimensions it looks kind of tight in the first person view. I don't know maybe its JUST me. Anyways I stick with the 1 unreal unit equals an inch... since an inch = 2.54 centimeters you could see how it would be harder to convert from u units to metric scale units. Oh and on a side not for some larger objects I use like 16 unreal units = a foot. It all works out in the end. And remeber folks people aren't going to notice small deviations... I said small don't go out there totally roughing stuff up *G*

5th Apr 2000, 04:57 PM
funkstylz: Actually, an even easier method is to add the class "Decorations->IntroDude" to your level. It's basically just the guy you see standing opposite from Zan in the introduction. The decoration shows up in the editor, so you can actually see how realistic the scale is while you're working on a level. I forget which editing site I saw this tip on; it might've been RealMaps.

Bad.Mojo: Heh, well, you wouldn't hear me complaining if the U.S. decided to switch to the metric system. Twelve inches in a foot (which is larger than most people's feet)? "Cups"? A temperature scale where freezing is at 32 degrees? Give me a break. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chand: Don't even say that; I'd hate to see how much slower and more bug-ridden Ued would be if they added in more features. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm still bothered by that "U2ed will hopefully be released this evening," then "U2ed will be released by the end of this week", and finally a few weeks later, "We can no longer release U2ed," thing. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Naughty5zero: Yeah, I'm not quite sure what's going on with the scale either sometimes. When you look at another player, it seems like you only come up to their chest, but at the same time, levels done with real-world dimensions usually look _smaller_ than they should. To top it all off, the players jump really high, and don't actually get any shorter when they duck (I guess Epic did this to maintain compatibility with Unreal, but it still bugs me). Not much you can do about it besides just playing your level and making sure it looks okay for both the first- and third-person views, though.

5th Apr 2000, 05:01 PM
Damn, I need to calm down with my usage of smilies.

5th Apr 2000, 07:05 PM
Here's what you do to solve the problem.

One: Convert everything to metric. Seriously. Units divisible by decimal are easier than units divisible by base twelve.

Two: Make new player models. Make them in metric units as well.

Three: Raise the camera to be at eye level so that "You got the EyesInYourSternum!" effect is gone.

Four: Make things to fit in a "letterbox" environment (more akin to real eyesight.) Then convert the extra 45 degrees on either side to null, to make a 90 by 90 degree pan-and-scan field of view (as we see now.)
(Basically consider all your shots in "movie theater" aspects, then try to make the movie "formatted to fit your tv screen")

Five: Reduce the jumping ratio. This is a configurable ratio. It is based on player units to space units traveled. If you lower the increment of the ratio, the mass of the player will become less relative to the amount of space it is supposed to travel within the game engine. This is entirely possible to modify within the mod.

Six: Make the hit box lower with the ducking model. This too is possible. It just requires work. (ideally the hit box would be based entirely around a model's polygonal mesh, but that's assuming that all meshes were created approximately equal for "fairness", though in my opinion, making an "average" man and an "average" woman mesh and giving them different skins for "different people" would be idealic)

In my perfect game engine, all those things would be true. The engine units would be measured in real world metric units for ease of use (everything would be relative to real world physics for ease of use: measuring increments, mass, physics equations, density and weight). Of course, I have no say in the matter, because I'm an unrequited genius instead of a face-stuffing third-world-nation-starving over-payed under-worked sub-par-patch-making industry lackey.

Evil Joe
6th Apr 2000, 08:46 AM
hunchback: *sigh* yeah I know, more work for me *G* (and everyone else I guess)

Bad Mojo: sounds like a plan, I also agree that metric IS easier but I've learned to deal with US standard units, comes with being my field of study. Metric is SOOOO much nicer though. Course I hate km's.... kph... can't relate to that... *G*

6th Apr 2000, 09:18 AM
kph is pretty easy. 100 kph = 60 mph. So if you're going 100 klicks in Canada, you aren't speeding. Just make sure you don't go 100 miles per hour. Our cops get pretty pissed when yanks go "but the sign said 100 miles per hour!"

I've seen it done, because I was sitting in the back seat at the time laughing my ass off.